White House knew NOLA levees broke

[Rex Kickass]

Why are people not understand the concept of first response?  Did anyone notice that 'beyond New Orleans' was handled pretty damn well in Alabama and Mississippi?  Yes, handled quite well on a state and local level.

There are a lot of folk in Mississippi that would disagree with you.

[YASNY]

There are a lot of folk in Mississippi that would disagree with you.

 

You've talked to these people?

[Texsox]

Why are people not understand the concept of first response?  Did anyone notice that 'beyond New Orleans' was handled pretty damn well in Alabama and Mississippi?  Yes, handled quite well on a state and local level.

 

While I agree that other state and local agencies dis a much better job, comparing a suburban and rural response to the levees breaking in NO is a stretch.

 

I wouldn't give anyone a free pass, including some residents. What we should remember, if we are looking for a positive, was and still is, the tremendous response of volunteers who came and cleaned, cooked, handed out water, searched, held hands, prayed, and anything else that was needed. Those volunteer efforts continue to this day. So we have successes and failures that we can learn from.

 

Can we really prepare for an event that is magnitudes worse than the previous? I think it may be unfair to expect it.

[YASNY]

While I agree that other state and local agencies dis a much better job, comparing a suburban and rural response to the levees breaking in NO is a stretch.

 

I wouldn't give anyone a free pass, including some residents. What we should remember, if we are looking for a positive, was and still is, the tremendous response of volunteers who came and cleaned, cooked, handed out water, searched, held hands, prayed, and anything else that was needed. Those volunteer efforts continue to this day.  So we have successes and failures that we can learn from.

 

Can we really prepare for an event that is magnitudes worse than the previous? I think it may be unfair to expect it.

 

My point is that I'm not giving anyone a pass. But there are so many JUST pointing at Bush and not even looking at those pair of boobs in Louisana. The people in Al and MS were evacuated before the storm. New Orleans, for the most part, should have been.

Edited February 12, 2006 by YASNY

[Texsox]

My point is that I'm not giving anyone a pass.  But there are so many JUST pointing at Bush and not even looking at those pair of boobs in Louisana.  The people in Al and MS were evacuated before the storm.  New Orleans, for the most part,  should have been.

 

And I am saying I agree with you, no one should be ducking the blame, except God who gave warnings for days before cleaning house. It is probably unfair, but Bush stands on WTC rubble with a bullhorn and receives huge approval and congratulations for the response on 9/11, shouldn't he also receive the same opportunity for NO? We both know if the response was perfect, he'd be receiving the credit. All roads lead to the White House, the buck stops here, and all that. He has to shoulder the blame, but I agree, there should be a lot of shoulders to help him, and they don't seem to be stepping up. This should have been a high water mark (no pun intended) for Bush and it was fumbled away by some weak people at all levels of the government, state and local. Some were his administrations appointees.

 

Sending two school buses to Hogsback MS is a little different from evacuating thousands of bus loads from a city, further complicating all of these responses is, we didn't forcibly evict anyone. Perhaps a mandatory get out or be arrested would have been better, but hindsight is everything.

[YASNY]

Okay. I can agree with that to an extent. Still, the pictures of 150 school buses sitting in 6 feet of water when they should have been put into use evacuating 'the faces of New Orleans' are basically ignored and forgotten.

[Texsox]

Okay.  I can agree with that to an extent.  Still, the  pictures of 150 school buses sitting in 6 feet of water when they should have been put into use evacuating 'the faces of New Orleans' are basically ignored and forgotten.

Exactly. Those buses may be the poster shot for this disaster. If I had to select one imagine, that would be it. Like Bush in the rubble.

 

BTW, should there be a sliding scale of accountability based on capability? What I'm thinking is the local fire chief for Oyster Cove, LA would be responsible for the evacuation of his town and probably has the credentials and training to maybe do that. The Disaster Chief or whatever for a larger Parish in LA should have better training and skills for a bigger job. If we are discussing shouldering blame, it would seem that the better trained, better paid, and better equiped should be grabbing more of the blame than the "little guys".

[NorthSideSox72]

You've talked to these people?

 

I do know a reporter who managed to get into NO before FEMA, then went on to see areas outside NO early on. The mess was everywhere. The only reason we saw so much about NO is the large population (and death toll) center. Response to areas in LA outside NO was horrific, and the same was said about MS in some areas.

 

Of course first responders are there on the ground. And while you keep asking why no on understands first response, why do you not understand that this was NOT a local disaster? The resources required were regional and federal, and federal coordination was necessary for anything beyond initial incident response ( and would have been preferable for that as well).

[YASNY]

I do know a reporter who managed to get into NO before FEMA, then went on to see areas outside NO early on.  The mess was everywhere.  The only reason we saw so much about NO is the large population (and death toll) center.  Response to areas in LA outside NO was horrific, and the same was said about MS in some areas.

 

Of course first responders are there on the ground.  And while you keep asking why no on understands first response, why do you not understand that this was NOT a local disaster?  The resources required were regional and federal, and federal coordination was necessary for anything beyond initial incident response ( and would have been preferable for that as well).

 

I do understand that this was not a local disaster. I also understand that the first responses should have come from the local and state levels. As I've said, the Pres has to shoulder some of the blame. But it appears he's shouldering a vast majority of it.

 

Regarding the first paragraph, I believe I stated the local and state responses were much better in the other two states. I've never given LA any credit for anything other than a major fubar.

Edited February 13, 2006 by YASNY

[NorthSideSox72]

The initial version of the "Katrina Report" and a FEMA re-org:

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationw...ll=chi-news-hed

 

Note that one of the main findings was that local evacuations and responses actually complicated things. Again, first responders are only meant to be that - FIRST responders. Command and control of emergency management needs to be handled at the level where all the available resources can be used and controlled. In this case, clearly federal.

 

Some good ideas from Chertoff - response teams, satellite tracking, etc. But what is missing, that would really make it a more effective system, is the ability to self-declare disaster, and do so BEFORE it actually hits. If FEMA could have this authority in some fashion, they could truly respond as necessary. If that is not possible, then DHS or someone above FEMA needs to have the onus placed squarely in their lap to be there to make that call whenever FEMA asks for that permission.

[NorthSideSox72]

I do understand that this was not a local disaster.  I also understand that the first responses should have come from the local and state levels.  As I've said, the Pres has to shoulder some of the blame.  But it appears he's shouldering a vast majority of it.

 

Regarding the first paragraph, I believe I stated the local and state responses were much better in the other two states.  I've never given LA any credit for anything other than a major fubar.

 

I don't see the press hanging Bush over this. Seems they are hanging Brown and Chertoff right now. Bush did nominate Brown, and could have pushed the response harder (and should have). But FEMA, Brown and Chertoff/DHS should be #1 on the blame list.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

The governor of LA would have thrown at good old fashioned tantrum if Bush would have tried to muscle in on her turf.  Once she found that she was incapable of handling things, then they started screaming "Where are the Feds?"

 

 

Typical. Oh so typical. Nagin and Blanco are 5 times more at fault for what happened there than Bush is.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Blanco and Nagin won't get a free pass. They don't stand a chance at re-election.

 

And there's a paper trail from Blanco asking FEMA and the Feds for assistance days before the hurricane by the way. I won't say she's blameless - but she did some things. Not enough, but some things.

 

 

Blanco is probably out but I think Nagin has done jsut enough pandering to the black community there to save his job ( think chocolate city ).

[southsider2k5]

Typical.  Oh so typical.  Nagin and Blanco are 5 times more at fault for what happened there than Bush is.

 

And she did... anyone remember her refusing to turnover control of the state resources to the President?

[Rex Kickass]

Blanco is probably out but I think Nagin has done jsut enough pandering to the black community there to save his job ( think chocolate city ).

Except few of them are actually moving back.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Except few of them are actually moving back.

 

 

Would you be in a hurry to move back if the feds were paying for a 400 dollar a night resort?