Bulls win at Clippers

[whitesoxfan101]

If he rebounds like a madman and plays the type of defense that he's capable of, even without an offensive game, he is not overpaid.  Are we in this for the rings, or what?  If so, players like Chandler are top priority. 

 

I'll post OREB and overall REB numbers since Jan 21 in the NBA thread later on today.  Sorry for cherrypicking.  Witness a madman in the making.  Nothing I didn't already know, as I evaluate guys based on tools, unlike a gang of motherf***ers.

 

Just average a double double, that's all I ask from Tyson. If your making 12 or 13 million a year, please just score 10 and rebound 10 per game for the season. But I will be gone with my numbers seeing as it's Tyson, and It's pretty clear he's your brother or cousin or something.

[hammerhead johnson]

He got most of his points on Sweetney and Songalia.  When Chandler was on him he had pretty much nothing.

 

And of course, Chisoxfn wouldn't even have to state the obvious if people actually looked into things. Don't run your mouth if you're not even watching these games. That's one of the sure signs of a fool.

[hammerhead johnson]

Just average a double double, that's all I ask from Tyson.  If your making 12 or 13 million a year, please just score 10 and rebound 10 per game for the season.  But I will be gone with my numbers seeing as it's Tyson, and It's pretty clear he's your brother or cousin or something.

 

No, I'm actually the President of his Fan Club. Of course I'm gonna get heated when people talk s***.

 

Again, you evaluate tools, and the sky is the limit for Tyson.

[whitesoxfan101]

No, I'm actually the President of his Fan Club.  Of course I'm gonna get heated when people talk s***.  

 

Again, you evaluate tools, and the sky is the limit for Tyson.

 

If you want to evaluate tools, then I agree with you. With his height, athletic ablilty, and wingspan, he could eventually lead the league (or be top 3) in rebounds and blocks every year for several years, and if he does that FOR FULL SEASONS, I'll say he's earning his money. But he can't be a good defender and rebounder, or even great, he has to be THE BEST (or close to it) in the NBA to earn his money, because he is never going to be a great or even good offensive player. That's all I'm saying.

 

And for the record, I hope Tyson does turn into that because he seems like a real nice kid and I don't want to spend the rest of my basketball fan life wanting to kill myself over the Brand trade like I am right now.

Edited February 13, 2006 by whitesoxfan101

[Chisoxfn]

And of course, Chisoxfn wouldn't even have to state the obvious if people actually looked into things.  Don't run your mouth if you're not even watching these games.  That's one of the sure signs of a fool. 

Late in the game there was an insane play by Chandler. Brand ended up scoring but Brand got the ball in the low block (this is probably will a minute or so left in the game) and Brand is wide-open with Songalia off of him (I think it was Darius, may have been Noc) but Brand turns and just looks to have a wide open shot from a few feet away and out of nowhere Brand swoops in (happened right in front of our seats) and it was just awesome d.

 

Brand ended up getting the ball back and getting a put back, but it was an awesome play. On another play Brand tried blowing by Tyson and I saw his face and Brand just looked shocked. He made a move left and than tried to go right and around towards the hoop for a dunk/layup and Chandler is already over standing there and Brand had nowhere to go.

 

Anyone that didn't watch the game may look at Brand's points and slam on Tyson, but Brand put up almost all his points from the line (not on Tyson's fouls) and from Sweetney (who tried hard but can't guard Elton) and Songalia (harrington actually did a solid job but wasn't in that often). When Tyson was on Brand, Brand couldn't do crap. It was just an awesome display cause Brand is rarely shut down by any defender.

 

Noc and Hinrich are pretty banged up though. Noc left at the half with a bloody nose and looked to be limping off the court right near the end of the game. Duhon wasn't anywhere to be seen (is he back in Chicago getting treatment?).

 

The ASB couldn't come at a better time cause I really think (hinrich especially) need the rest. Hinrich's shot is really being effected by his shoulder injury.

[Chisoxfn]

If you want to evaluate tools, then I agree with you.  With his height, athletic ablilty, and wingspan, he could eventually lead the league (or be top 3) in rebounds and blocks every year for several years, and if he does that FOR FULL SEASONS, I'll say he's earning his money.  But he can't be a good defender and rebounder, or even great, he has to be THE BEST (or close to it) in the NBA to earn his money, because he is never going to be a great or even good offensive player.  That's all I'm saying.

 

And for the record, I hope Tyson does turn into that because he seems like a real nice kid and I don't want to spend the rest of my basketball fan life wanting to kill myself over the Brand trade like I am right now.

He's got to turn into a Ben Wallace type player. I think he's capable of that. Although I don't know if he'll ever be able to go against a center like Shaq, but the nice thing is there is only one Shaq.

 

He can play guys like Jermaine O'Neal and I even think Duncan. Still needs more muscle mass, plus more confidence offensively (just enough to keep defenses honset where they can't just lay off him and double team others).

[whitesoxfan101]

Oh, and as big a problem as it is that we have ZERO post scorers, it might be an even bigger problem that we have NOBODY besides Tyson who can guard a legit 4 or 5.

[whitesoxfan101]

He's got to turn into a Ben Wallace type player.  I think he's capable of that.  Although I don't know if he'll ever be able to go against a center like Shaq, but the nice thing is there is only one Shaq. 

 

He can play guys like Jermaine O'Neal and I even think Duncan.  Still needs more muscle mass, plus more confidence offensively (just enough to keep defenses honset where they can't just lay off him and double team others).

 

Agreed on all counts. He can be a taller Ben Wallace eventually, and hell I'd take that in a f***ing second, and THAT would be worth the money easily.

[Chisoxfn]

Oh, and as big a problem as it is that we have ZERO post scorers, it might be an even bigger problem that we have NOBODY besides Tyson who can guard a legit 4 or 5.

Find us a good low post player and I wouldn't worry. Not many teams have two legit low post scorers so having one awesome low post defensive player is enough, especially when that one guy can take on most any type of big (well thats the ultimate goal for Chandler..he may not be strong enough for some guys, but he's still one of the best in the biz defensively).

 

This team drastically needs a low post player. I think a lot of people under-estimated when Curry was able to do because teams had to actually worry about him in the block because he could create buckets in the low post. I'm not saying we should have signed him cause I long said that would have been foolish all things considering, but the Bulls need to find a guy like that.

 

Hopefully he'll have a big enough of a body that if we do match up against a Shaq we can stick him on Shaq and just try having Chandler play help D.

 

Note: I'm referring not necessarily to this years squad but next years and the ones down the line.

[RockRaines]

God damn man, did you even bother to watch this game???  Brand abused Songalia and Sweetney.  When Chandler was on him, he couldn't do a god damn thing.  If you're not going to watch these games, don't bother commenting on them. 

 

You're usually a better poster than this.  Seriously, get your head out of your ass.

 

Chandler played great.  He was mostly on Kaman, but he switched over to Brand at times.

Hahaha, you would think you are dating him or something. Yes I watched him, yes he played like he always does. Leaping and swinging his arms on defense, worthless on offense. He got into double digit rebounds well into the 4th quarter, wow, what a beast he is. He is an average player IMO, and will stay that way. He only true skill is that he was born with height. You want to evaluate him based on tools huh? Thats the most ridiculous thing I have heard. You know how many "players with potential" bow out of the NBA every year? Steve Nash was slated to have average potential, and now he is an MVP.

[hammerhead johnson]

Hahaha, you would think you are dating him or something.  Yes I watched him, yes he played like he always does.  Leaping and swinging his arms on defense, worthless on offense.  He got into double digit rebounds well into the 4th quarter, wow, what a beast he is.  He is an average player IMO, and will stay that way.  He only true skill is that he was born with height.  You want to evaluate him based on tools huh?  Thats the most ridiculous thing I have heard.  You know how many "players with potential" bow out of the NBA every year?  Steve Nash was slated to have average potential, and now he is an MVP.

 

So, you watched the game??? Then why did you say that Brand torched him? I don't know, man. You're kind of sounding like White Sox Josh all of a sudden. Will you get your story straight, please?

 

And I think that qwerty said it best. Chandler is making b****es look stupid. Really, I think that says it all.

 

"His only true skill is height". Since when is height a skill? If we're talking tools and intangibles, Chandler possesses all of these: quickness, height, wingspan, leaping ability, work ethic, mean streak, passion to win, etc. Combine all of those things. He has the makings of a defensive legend, or am I wrong?

 

And I don't know if anyone has noticed, but Chandler has proven to be a pretty good passer.

 

Anyway :rolly , I'll post some OREB and REB numbers in a little while. Not for you, obviously. Start watching some games, please.

[RockRaines]

So, you watched the game???  Then why did you say that Brand torched him?  I don't know, man.  You're kind of sounding like White Sox Josh all of a sudden.  Will you get your story straight, please?

 

And I think that qwerty said it best.  Chandler is making b****es look stupid.  Really, I think that says it all.

 

"His only true skill is height".  Since when is height a skill?  If we're talking tools and intangibles, Chandler possesses all of these: quickness, height, wingspan, leaping ability, work ethic, mean streak, passion to win, etc.  Combine all of those things.  He has the makings of a defensive legend, or am I wrong?

 

And I don't know if anyone has noticed, but Chandler has proven to be a pretty good passer. 

 

Anyway  :rolly , I'll post some OREB and REB numbers in a little while.  Not for you, obviously.  Start watching some games, please.

I understand that its hard for you to take an logical approach to your man-crush, as I have seen you flame out on the subject multiple times. Go ahead and post numbers all you want. His reb numbers are down from last year, his pts, his blocks, yeah hes a superstar. I loooove it when 2nd overall picks average single digits in all categories. Saying that his height was skill was sarcastic man, pick up on it.

 

Lets talk about players with tools and intagibles huh? Lets forget all raw stats, and actual numbers. Please, you sound like a guy who is trying to rationalize his dog of a girlfriend to his buddies. But he has a wingspan, hes kinda mean, he hits his chest with his fist every time he dunks. Please. He is a dissapointment of a 2nd overall pick. He has no offensive skill whatsoever, yet we are trying to retionalize his talent by comparing "potential" or his numbers for the last 2 weeks. This season, he has started more games than ever before, yet all of his numbers have gone down. He's 17th in rebounds per game? Damn. Maybe you were just ignoring his 24 ranking in Def RPG with a stellar 5.6. I bet you were going to focus on his #7 ranking for ORPG, still isnt making many people look like fools on his "strength." But he must be "swattin" the ball away as defensive masters should right? I guess being 31st in blocks doesnt tell the whole story.

 

The guy could be a good complimentary player, maybe a defensive specialist. But comparing him to Ben Wallace? Please. At this point in his career. It was a bad move to acquire him, and he is a dissapointment at the #2 guy selected in the draft. Go ahead and flame, get personal, whatever you think is neccessary to guard your man-crush from criticism. The facts are facts. If potential was what mattered most in sports, Joe Borchard would be the MVP.

[jenksd]

how about that block by noch on brand.

[jenksd]

oh hey, another irrelevant brand/chandler argument. LETS COMPARE CURRY TO CHANDLER NOW TOO! How about Jamal Crawford and Hinrich? Jay Williams anyone?

[SSH2005]

oh hey, another irrelevant brand/chandler argument. LETS COMPARE CURRY TO CHANDLER NOW TOO! How about Jamal Crawford and Hinrich? Jay Williams anyone?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ummm, the Bulls essentially traded Brand for Chandler. What's wrong with that comparison? It was and still is a horrible trade. Chandler will never be the player that Brand currently is.

[Balta1701]

Ummm, the Bulls essentially traded Brand for Chandler.  What's wrong with that comparison?  It was and still is a horrible trade.  Chandler will never be the player that Brand currently is.

Oh great, another Chandler debate. And it's starting to move quicker again.

 

Look, he's starting to turn into a decent player. He's certainly not the best in the league, he's certainly not an all-star. He has only played a few months with this new contract, and only a few weeks where he's been healthy and finally in shape. He's had a disappointing season to be sure. No one right now can tell me they know 100% where his potential ceiling is, and no one can tell me 100% that they know whether or not he'll actually reach it. If we wanted to win now, Brand pulling in 25 and 10 a night would clearly be better than Chandler. You'd have to be crazy to doubt that. Down the road? We'll see. Chandler would have his work cut out for him to improve enough to match that.

 

Anywho, the guy who made that deal is a scout for the Yankees now or something like that, so who cares at this point? We've got him, he's not terrible, let's try to figure out the best thing we can do with him. If that's trade him, tell me. If we can build around him by getting another big guy, let's figure that out too. Aside from learning from whatever mistakes were made by he who won't be named, which I think Pax has done well (I.e. the drafting of Hinrich, Deng), there's little debate left at this point. The Clippers won't give us a redo on that deal, so let's just try to figure out the best thing we can do with what we have. Think Tyson should be benched? Traded? Play 48 minutes a game? Tell me why. But this back and forth "He sucks, no he's great" isn't getting us anywhere.

[Phuck the Cubs]

You could be right, but under no circumstances would Skiles and many of these guys try to lose games. It's probably better that these guys get one more taste of playoff basketball before they head into next season, where they may be able to fit a few players (although there doesn't seem to be much out there) into the available $16 million along with two high picks or the players they dealt them for...

 

I have the complete NBA package out here in Phoenix and last night's game was the first one I missed while I had the chance to watch it. I was disturbed by the Sacramento game the game before. It appears as though I missed a good one.

 

More Pargo, please!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

AMEN TO THAT!! I'm disbanding my Sosa Club and starting the offical "Play Jannero Pargo More" fan club

[whitesoxfan101]

I just want Chandler to turn into a taller semi version of Ben Wallace. It's already obvious the Clips took it to us in that trade with Brand, and that isn't going to change regardless of what happens from here on out, since Brand can defend (although not at the level of Tyson) AND *gasp* SCORE POINTS!!

 

But yeah, if I knew this would turn into a battle between the Tyson woodies and blind Tyson haters, with nobody allowing a middle ground of common snese, I'd have never started the thread.

[whitesoxfan101]

Oh, and I'm guessing Jannero Pargo fans are also huge Ben Gordon fans. Hey guys, THEY ARE THE SAME PLAYER. They can't defend, can't pass, are undersized 2 guards, and only have 1 skill; getting hot from the field. I really wish we'd trade Gordon for something nice like I know we can, because he is never going to be more than he is right now, and that isn't good enough.

[hammerhead johnson]

Here, I'll post this here as well for some of the gifted basketball minds amongst you who might not catch it in the NBA thread.

 

I apologize in advance for cherry-picking. 

 

Offensive Rebounds Per Minute Since January 21 (w/ a minimum of 250 Minutes Played)

1. Tyson Chandler .158

2. Kendrick Perkins .119

3. Troy Murphy .114

4. Drew Gooden .113

5. Ben Wallace .112

6. Zaza Pachulia .101

7. Kenny Thomas .100

8. Robert Swift .097

9. Zach Randolph .094

10. Shaquille O'Neal .091

11. Dwight Howard .090

12. Samuel Dalembert .089

13. Jamal Magloire .087

14. Kevin Garnett .085

15. Chris Webber .084

 

Overall Rebounds Per Minute Since January 21

1. Tyson Chandler .389

2. Jamal Magloire .348

3. Troy Murphy .341

4. Kevin Garnett .340

5. Drew Gooden .324

6. Samuel Dalembert .316

7. Tim Duncan .312

8. Chris Kaman .308

9. Dwight Howard .307

10. Ben Wallace .305

11. Kendrick Perkins .300

12. Robert Swift .294

13. Shaquille O'Neal .290

14. Kenny Thomas .276

15. Shawn Marion .264

 

I have a question. Why is Tyson Chandler owning people so badly on the boards? Can anyone explain the separation between him and the #2 guy in both categories? Come on, let's talk about this.

 

Rock, how does it feel to be on the same level as White Sox Josh? You have established yourself as a pretty terrible poster today IMHO.

[hammerhead johnson]

In the end, it's pretty f***ing sad that I have to defend a BULL with this much potential. :headshake

 

I show people Rebounds Per Minute figures, and it's a bad thing. Chandler owning motherf***ers is a bad thing. Who'd have thunk it?

[whitesoxfan101]

In the end, it's pretty f***ing sad that I have to defend a BULL with this much potential.  :headshake

 

I show people Rebounds Per Minute figures, and it's a bad thing.  Chandler owning motherf***ers is a bad thing.  Who'd have thunk it? 

 

Is Tyson Chandler a better overall player than Elton Brand. Will he ever be a better overall player than Elton Brand? He sure as hell should be, since that was the trade. There are 2 options here:

 

1. You admit the obvious, Brand is and will always be better.

2. You say "Tyson is going to be better in 4 years and a defensive legend like Marcus Camby since he leads the league in rebounding the last 3 weeks".

 

I like Tyson, but come on man, your just being silly.

[RockRaines]

Here, I'll post this here as well for some of the gifted basketball minds amongst you who might not catch it in the NBA thread.

Rock, how does it feel to be on the same level as White Sox Josh?  You have established yourself as a pretty terrible poster today IMHO.

Why the personal attack? Did your cherry picking of stats not satisfy you enough? I guess we should just ignore the rest of the season when comparing player's worth. I am a huge bulls fan, and I like Tyson. But you are now making outrageous claims. Based on your timeframe, Ben Gordon would be one of the most prolific scorers in the entire NBA. Does that mean he is a great player? No. Come back when you can present a rational argument.

 

In case you are in need of a new avatar;

 

Edited February 14, 2006 by RockRaines

[RockRaines]

In the end, it's pretty f***ing sad that I have to defend a BULL with this much potential.  :headshake

 

I show people Rebounds Per Minute figures, and it's a bad thing.  Chandler owning motherf***ers is a bad thing.  Who'd have thunk it? 

I love how leading in Rebounds per minute for a 2 week span is owning people.

[hammerhead johnson]

How is it not rational? January 21st is the date that Skiles finally got his head out of his ass and stuck Chandler in the starting PF slot. Since then, he has been playing with confidence. January 21 was the turning point.

 

Maybe you did not know that.

 

And again, Tyson wreaking havoc on the boards is a bad thing. :headshake