Bucks vs. Bulls + Trade deadline talk

[Chisoxfn]

We will hear those two names talked about 702390509823589 times the rest of this season and the off-season ( on here anyway).

I think Pax is smarter than that. Now if we move someone like Noc in a deadline deal and end up getting LaMarcus Aldridge in the draft than I wouldn't have much of a problem going with a guy like Nazr or Harrington if the price was right (assuming a Noc/Gordon type deal would get us a good scorer at the 2 position which would allow Hinrich to play PG full time and guard PG's most of the time).

 

Pax is in a position to get the Bulls in a real good spot going into the off-season where our Knicks pick plus the right signing (and we have cash) could do wonders, especially if he's able to get a real good SG right now without giving up Deng/Chandler/Hinrich. Cause those 3 shouldn't be going anywhere unless the team is getting a KG/Lebron/Kobe/Wade type player

[nitetrain8601]

We could get by with Hinrich, Deng, KG, and Tyson being above-average defenders.

 

I doubt that. Morrison probably couldn't keep up with half the power fowards in the NBA. His legs and ahtleticism are that bad. Morrison would be a bad pick for this team, especially with the system Skiles runs. Morrison wouldn't see more than 10 minutes a game.

[whitesoxfan101]

So will the Bulls make a trade or not?

 

I'd be surprised if they do, but I'm praying for the TT/Gordon/Bulls pick for Pierce trade. I like Ben, but he really is BAD (yes bad) at EVERYTHING except scoring. And he's basically a 6'2 2 guard, so to get Pierce (a legit 2 guard and scorer) for Gordon, TT, and a mid 1st rounder would be very nice. But I doubt it happens.

[whitesoxfan101]

I doubt that. Morrison probably couldn't keep up with half the power fowards in the NBA. His legs and ahtleticism are that bad. Morrison would be a bad pick for this team, especially with the system Skiles runs. Morrison wouldn't see more than 10 minutes a game.

 

Morrison is going to be such a bust. He won't be able to guard anybody, won't be able to get his own shot, and will have no stamina. I feel for whoever gets that kid.

[nitetrain8601]

Ya, everyone who yaps on and on about Hinrich and how he can't make a bucket should watch this game. 

 

It was the 2nd game in about a 5 game span where he blew up late in the 4th quarter (he did so in the Clippers game as well).  Hinrich was one of the big reasons this team won the game tonight as he hit big bucket after big bucket late in the 4th plus he made a great pass to Gordon to hit a huge 3 right at the end. 

 

Oh and did I mention he stuck on Redd like glue in the final two minutes or so.  Also those were a couple awesome blocks by Tyson.  Chandler was in foul trouble most of the game but he came up big in the end. 

 

Gordon was very quiet for the most part sans one 3 point shooting spree.  To make matters worse he wasn't protecting the basketball and luckily he was guarding that horrific scorer in TJ Ford cause he looked ridiculous on defense (Gordon's defensive positioning and fundementals were horrid). 

 

I'm ready to let Gordon go and have been for a while but I should re-iterate it should only be done if we are getting a legit scorer in a return.  I'm talking about a Paul Pierce type guy.  Give up Gordon, our pick and TT and see if a team is willing to give us something good.  I'd probably be willing to give up Noc in a package with Gordon if we were getting two guys back (one legit scorer of the Paul Pierce mode) and than a guy with a decent (albeit not great contract) who can provide depth for the loss of Noc. 

 

Gordon is going to be a very good scorer in time, but a guy like Pierce is already a great scorer and putting a guy like that who can create his own shot would make this offense so much better.  Add a post player in the off-season while keeping Deng/Hinrich/Chandler and than one of Noc/Duhon and the rest of the cast and I think we'd be in position to compete for a championship in a year or two.

 

Um, Redd was torched by Hinrich and would've been burned even more if his team gave him the ball on the times he called for it.

 

BTW, this trade is looking to obtain more scorers, not lose any. If the name isn't KG, Pax won't be trading Gordon. You can't criticize Gordon either for going on shooting sprees and being quiet the rest of the game when Tyson did the exact same on the defensive end. That's just cherry picking.

 

Hinrich let his man score at will on him tonight, Tyson played like crap, and Ben has had better shooting nights. We were able to gut it out, but against better teams, we won't get away with as much.

[nitetrain8601]

Morrison is going to be such a bust.  He won't be able to guard anybody, won't be able to get his own shot, and will have no stamina.  I feel for whoever gets that kid.

 

It's funny because I've seen tons of people who have him as #1 on the board without a doubt. I guess they look at his boxscore way too much.

[whitesoxfan101]

It's funny because I've seen tons of people who have him as #1 on the board without a doubt. I guess they look at his boxscore way too much.

 

That's because people don't watch the games. Just because your good in college doesn't mean you will be in the NBA. Morrison gets torched by the guy he's guarding from St. Mary's, can you imagine him in the NBA? Yikes. Add that to his diabetes, non existant athletic ability, and slow release....and you have a problem.

[Balta1701]

I think Pax is smarter than that.  Now if we move someone like Noc in a deadline deal and end up getting LaMarcus Aldridge in the draft than I wouldn't have much of a problem going with a guy like Nazr or Harrington if the price was right (assuming a Noc/Gordon type deal would get us a good scorer at the 2 position which would allow Hinrich to play PG full time and guard PG's most of the time). 

I for one think that the best thing this team could possibly do assuming KG is unavailable is to make a bull rush at Aldridge. Even if we have to trade 2 picks to move up, or give up Gordon and a pick to move up.

 

This team is missing strength in the middle. It's the same thing that hurt us in the playoffs against Washington last year...Washington had a couple different post players, none of whom were totally dominant, but all of whom together were enough to get Chandler worn out and in foul trouble, leaving the lane wide open for penetrating guys.

 

This team needs someone who can turn around and do that on the other team. That's the 2nd biggest thing we lost when we got rid of curry, next to the headache. Hopefully, Aldridge can develop into the kind of guy we're missing. And if we can get him without giving up Gordon...having that extra size and strength in the lane may very well make all the other guys on the team better, since they'll wind up with more open shots.

[whitesoxfan101]

My favorite (if the Bulls keep the 2 picks) senario is Aldridge with the 1st one and Ronnie Brewer the 2nd....but I doubt that happens.

[Chisoxfn]

I doubt that. Morrison probably couldn't keep up with half the power fowards in the NBA. His legs and ahtleticism are that bad. Morrison would be a bad pick for this team, especially with the system Skiles runs. Morrison wouldn't see more than 10 minutes a game.

Morrison will go around 6-12 when its all set and done. Reddick will go higher than that and honestly I can see him being a better version of Wally Z. While I realize a lot of people hate JJ, he has vastly improved his game and is no longer just a shooter.

 

I don't think he'll ever be an outstanding or even good defensive player but with work and the right approach he can be average (I think all NBA players on the most part have the ability to be average defensive players because defense is more energy than athletisim; it takes athletism to be great defensively though) defensively and offensively he is a lights out shooter and has improved when it comes to passing, driving, and working through screens.

 

But Aldridge or Gay all the way. Its too bad Oden can't go pro cause that would be who I would be clammoring for.

[nitetrain8601]

My favorite (if the Bulls keep the 2 picks) senario is Aldridge with the 1st one and Ronnie Brewer the 2nd....but I doubt that happens.

 

That's whay I want to see.

[Chisoxfn]

I'd be surprised if they do, but I'm praying for the TT/Gordon/Bulls pick for Pierce trade.  I like Ben, but he really is BAD (yes bad) at EVERYTHING except scoring.  And he's basically a 6'2 2 guard, so to get Pierce (a legit 2 guard and scorer) for Gordon, TT, and a mid 1st rounder would be very nice.  But I doubt it happens.

I'd give up Duh or Noc if thats what it took.

[whitesoxfan101]

I'd give up Duh or Noc if thats what it took.

 

Agreed, moreso Nocioni since he's really a 3 and Luol is the future at that spot. I like Duhon's game as a complimentary player long term a lot.

[Chisoxfn]

Um, Redd was torched by Hinrich and would've been burned even more if his team gave him the ball on the times he called for it.

 

BTW, this trade is looking to obtain more scorers, not lose any. If the name isn't KG, Pax won't be trading Gordon. You can't criticize Gordon either for going on shooting sprees and being quiet the rest of the game when Tyson did the exact same on the defensive end. That's just cherry picking.

 

Hinrich let his man score at will on him tonight, Tyson played like crap, and Ben has had better shooting nights. We were able to gut it out, but against better teams, we won't get away with  as much.

One legit scorer is enough, especially if/when they find that low post scorer in the off-season. With someone that can force defenses to collapse in the paint and a guy like Pierce who can create a shot and get free throws on nights where he's off, you than have the ability to get Hinrich open looks and when he's given that his shooting percentage will sky-rocket and Deng will see his scoring average and efficiency improve as well.

 

Ben Gordon doesn't make those guys better, Pierce will and dramatically.

 

Oh in case your wondering Redd jacked up so many damn shots it wasn't even funny. Sure he scored but he shot a ridiculously low % and for a decent chunk of the time it wasn't Hinrich on him. In case your wondering 12-34 is not a good shooting % (that was Redd's).

[nitetrain8601]

Morrison will go around 6-12 when its all set and done.  Reddick will go higher than that and honestly I can see him being a better version of Wally Z.  While I realize a lot of people hate JJ, he has vastly improved his game and is no longer just a shooter.

 

I don't think he'll ever be an outstanding or even good defensive player but with work and the right approach he can be average (I think all NBA players on the most part have the ability to be average defensive players because defense is more energy than athletisim; it takes athletism to be great defensively though) defensively and offensively he is a lights out shooter and has improved when it comes to passing, driving, and working through screens.

 

But Aldridge or Gay all the way.  Its too bad Oden can't go pro cause that would be who I would be clammoring for.

 

I agree with Reddick. I think he could be as good as RIP Hamilton if he's in the right system.

 

And yeah, it's funny how the Bulls seem to be 1 year off again when it comes to the draft.

[Balta1701]

I'd give up Duh or Noc if thats what it took.

For Pierce...the only things I wouldn't want to give up are the #1 pick, Hinrich, Chandler, and Deng.

 

For KG...the only thing I wouldn't want to give up are those 3 players.

[Chisoxfn]

I for one think that the best thing this team could possibly do assuming KG is unavailable is to make a bull rush at Aldridge.  Even if we have to trade 2 picks to move up, or give up Gordon and a pick to move up.

 

This team is missing strength in the middle.  It's the same thing that hurt us in the playoffs against Washington last year...Washington had a couple different post players, none of whom were totally dominant, but all of whom together were enough to get Chandler worn out and in foul trouble, leaving the lane wide open for penetrating guys.

 

This team needs someone who can turn around and do that on the other team. That's the 2nd biggest thing we lost when we got rid of curry, next to the headache.  Hopefully, Aldridge can develop into the kind of guy we're missing.  And if we can get him without giving up Gordon...having that extra size and strength in the lane may very well make all the other guys on the team better, since they'll wind up with more open shots.

I completely agree. Its why I said curry was more valuable to the Bulls than to other teams since we had no other low post options when it comes to scoring. Its very hard to be consistently good when your team struggles to find high percentage shots.

 

Aldridge would definately be a key to most of my ideas. Of course there are other options that may not be as attractive but could semi get the job done. I just hope that Knicks pick will be enough for us to get him.

[whitesoxfan101]

Redick will be a pretty good pro if he stays healthy. I don't agree with the RIP comparision (and even he was VERY lucky to end up in the spot he is in Detroit), but a guy that shoots like J.J., is smart, and is an adequate athlete with decent size has a place in the NBA.

[Chisoxfn]

Agreed, moreso Nocioni since he's really a 3 and Luol is the future at that spot.  I like Duhon's game as a complimentary player long term a lot.

I'd give up Duh first because with Pierce you can have Hinrich get almost all the minutes at the point (and Hinrich plays tons of minutes as does Duh). Than go out and draft a PG in the 2nd round that fits Skiles mold. I think its relatively easy to find those type of PG's cause they aren't sexy picks and typically are out there in the 2nd round (usually there are a couple solid defensive pg's that go later in teh draft cause everyone knows they will never be stars).

[nitetrain8601]

One legit scorer is enough, especially if/when they find that low post scorer in the off-season.  With someone that can force defenses to collapse in the paint and a guy like Pierce who can create a shot and get free throws on nights where he's off, you than have the ability to get Hinrich open looks and when he's given that his shooting percentage will sky-rocket and Deng will see his scoring average and efficiency improve as well. 

 

Ben Gordon doesn't make those guys better, Pierce will and dramatically. 

 

Oh in case your wondering Redd jacked up so many damn shots it wasn't even funny.  Sure he scored but he shot a ridiculously low % and for a decent chunk of the time it wasn't Hinrich on him.  In case your wondering 12-34 is not a good shooting % (that was Redd's).

 

I think Pierce will help us into the playoffs, but won't make us a title contender. The biggest problem with this team is that it still needs time to develop chemistry and to develop their games. Last year we were able to cover that up because Curry and Chandler were further along in development and we just oozed talent left and right. This year, we really don't have talent in the middle that could hide those deficiencies.

 

Only way I want Pierce is if Pax goes balls in and finds a way to trade for KG as well.

[nitetrain8601]

Redick will be a pretty good pro if he stays healthy.  I don't agree with the RIP comparision (and even he was VERY lucky to end up in the spot he is in Detroit), but a guy that shoots like J.J., is smart, and is an adequate athlete with decent size has a place in the NBA.

 

Well that's where I get the rip comparison. He's going to have to be lucky to go to the right spot. Also, both are great coming off of screens and just shooting. Both are also pretty decent at getting their shot off. And both aren't great defensively. Or at least RIP wasn't until after a year in Detroit.

[Chisoxfn]

I think Pierce will help us into the playoffs, but won't make us a title contender. The biggest problem with this team is that it still needs time to develop chemistry and to develop their games. Last year we were able to cover that up because Curry and Chandler were further along in development and we just oozed talent left and right. This year, we really don't have talent in the middle that could hide those deficiencies.

 

Only way I want Pierce is if Pax goes balls in and finds a way to trade for KG as well.

Pierce and a guy like Kaman and this team is right on the brink of winning an NBA championship (in the next say 3 years if all they lose in the Pierce deal is BG and one of Noc/Duh) because along with Pierce and a guy like Kaman the team would have some money to still sign a guy like Nazr or Harrington (harrington would be nice cause he could get minutes at the 3 and 4 nullifying Noc).

 

Oh and when I say a guy like Kaman I mean a solid low post guy that could get us 12-15 PPG while grabbing down boards and playing solid defense. I think LaMarcus Aldridge could be that guy, but if we got him it would push the championship timetable back a bit cause he'd have to develop, but I could see him being a Duncan type player (really like his ability, but he's still raw and would have growing pains in the NBA).

 

Of course the odds of him making it like Duncan did would be slim and with anything there is a risk.

 

All I know is that PP far >>>> than anything BG will ever be.

[Chisoxfn]

I agree with Reddick. I think he could be as good as RIP Hamilton if he's in the right system.

 

And yeah, it's funny how the Bulls seem to be 1 year off again when it comes to the draft.

I think thats a good comparison.

[Balta1701]

I completely agree.  Its why I said curry was more valuable to the Bulls than to other teams since we had no other low post options when it comes to scoring.  Its very hard to be consistently good when your team struggles to find high percentage shots. 

 

Aldridge would definately be a key to most of my ideas.  Of course there are other options that may not be as attractive but could semi get the job done.  I just hope that Knicks pick will be enough for us to get him.

There are a couple things that give me hope, aside from just Thomas's work in NY...While neither of them are healthy right now...Charlotte does sort of have a couple of fairly big guys already. If they wind up ahead of us, they may very well be looking more at Gay than Aldridge...I just think he'd fill a need more.

 

If someone like Portland or Atlanta wound up ahead of us...they might be in the market for an extra pick just to try to get another player on the court. Or Gordon might pique their interest.

[Balta1701]

Oh and when I say a guy like Kaman I mean a solid low post guy that could get us 12-15 PPG while grabbing down boards and playing solid defense.  I think LaMarcus Aldridge could be that guy, but if we got him it would push the championship timetable back a bit cause he'd have to develop, but I could see him being a Duncan type player (really like his ability, but he's still raw and would have growing pains in the NBA). 

Well, on the other side...we're still a very, VERY young team right now anyway. A lot of the guys on our team are still probably a couple years away from their peaks. Which would give Aldridge more time to develop. Chandler certainly still has his best years ahead of him, Deng also, Hinrich hopefully...Gordon maybe...You stick Aldridge in there, and he's roughly on the same development schedule as a lot of the other guys.

 

You stick a guy like PP or KG in there, and you're hoping that the guys around him develop fast enough to take advantage of the vet's skills while they're still at the top of their game. Problem is...you don't know when age will catch up with those guys, and you don't know how long it'll take for your guys to start playing all the way up to their potential.

 

I think I lean towards the youth movement continuing...UNLESS you can get KG for a fair deal or PP for a song.