Kenny Fires Back At Frank

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 02:53 AM)

I honestly don't remember with Robin, but I remember Olivo and Alomar. Alomar especially after he left the first time and signed with the D-Backs. He was really discontent. That's not made up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Olivo did not leave on bad terms. I don't consider crying because you don't want to go leaving on bad terms. Maybe to you it is, but not me.

[nitetrain8601]

f*** Alomar then. Point being more players have left here on good terms than bad and Frank doesn't mention the players that left on good terms. He would like to point out only the players that left on bad terms because that suits his argument.

 

You can't say "f*** him then." It just doesn't work that way. If it were just 1 or 2 players who've had a problem with the organization, it would be fine and dandy, but this organization is known to have rocky relationships and breakups. Also, don't forget Curt Schilling as he's said he'd never pitch for the Chicago White Sox. You might like the players, but the players do have alot of weight around the league, especially the star players. To simply dismiss any player who says they dislike the way the franchise handles things is ignorant IMO.

[rangercal]

That would've worked as well.  I still think it would've been better to have a face to face sit down.  A meesage on voicemail just doesn't cut it.  If we're talking Geoff Blum,  fine.  But the greatest player in franchise history deserves a little more than that.

Yes.. Thank you.. This is the main thing I just don't understand. KW at least owed that phone call for us fans who have bought Frank Jerseys, merchandise, camped out 5 hours at soxfest to get his autograph.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 02:57 AM)

Past history doesn't dictate jack.  You can't just assume Frank would've blown up regardeless.  As has been mentioned,  Frank had really mellowed out over the last few years.  He was very proffesional and did nothing but support the team during their playoff run.  He could've easily whined then.  Frank is not Terrell Owens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Huh? History does dictate everything. I haven't assumed anything. I am simlpy going by his personality and his past history. He will always find something to complain and b**** about. It is his nature. If last few years means last year then I will give that to you. He had no choice but to support his team during the playoff run. What else could he have done? What could he have possibly whined about? He got a ring for doing absolutely nothing. Frank may be Terrell Owens in the locker room. We have no way of knowing that, do we?

[nitetrain8601]

Olivo did not leave on bad terms. I don't consider crying because you don't want to go leaving on bad terms. Maybe to you it is, but not me.

 

He was also mad when he got to Seattle because he thought he was supposed to be our future catcher. It wasn't only tears, but angryness from him. I don't know how he feels now because I stopped paying attention to his career after he couldn't get PT from Seattle.

[jackie hayes]

Ozzie and Fisk were definitely ticked. Robin was, iirc, upset, but much more low key. Plus, so many fans were upset on his behalf (while with Oz and Fisk everyone could see they were done). Miggy was upset, but only behind closed doors. But I guess that counts now.

 

I think Frank is wrong, dead wrong, on the whole 'Sox treating their players' stuff. If he didn't like the diminished skills clause, he didn't need to sign the contract. The Sox indeed did him a favor in tearing up that whole mess. Being wrong doesn't make him a selfish idiot, though.

[ottawa_sox]

Past history doesn't dictate jack.  You can't just assume Frank would've blown up regardeless.  As has been mentioned,  Frank had really mellowed out over the last few years.  He was very proffesional and did nothing but support the team during their playoff run.  He could've easily whined then.  Frank is not Terrell Owens.

 

I don't think there is much the Sox could have done that would have helped Frank accept that they are better off without him.

[nitetrain8601]

Ozzie and Fisk were definitely ticked.  Robin was, iirc, upset, but much more low key.  Plus, so many fans were upset on his behalf (while with Oz and Fisk everyone could see they were done).  Miggy was upset, but only behind closed doors.  But I guess that counts now.

 

I think Frank is wrong, dead wrong, on the whole 'Sox treating their players' stuff.  If he didn't like the diminished skills clause, he didn't need to sign the contract.  The Sox indeed did him a favor in tearing up that whole mess.  Being wrong doesn't make him a selfish idiot, though.

 

I did forget Fisk. Shame on me.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 02:59 AM)

You can't say "f*** him then." It just doesn't work that way. If it were just 1 or 2 players who've had a problem with the organization, it would be fine and dandy, but this organization is known to have rocky relationships and breakups. Also, don't forget Curt Schilling as he's said he'd never pitch for the Chicago White Sox. You might like the players, but the players do have alot of weight around the league, especially the star players. To simply dismiss any player who says they dislike the way the franchise handles things is ignorant IMO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

First of all you are taking "f*** Alomar" out of context. What I was trying to get across was "Forget I brought Alomar up". No one can actually point out to me how he left, so I just said "f*** him". In other words forget I brought him up since we can't prove if he left on a good or bad note. I am not dismissing him at all.

 

I didn't know Schilling was a former player, so I really don't care about him. He would never pitch for the Sox because he believes, as do many, that Reinsdorf was responsible for the lockout. That is the only reason. Who the f*** cares about Schilling and what he thinks anyway? He should actually get off his high horse anyway.

 

David Wells left our organization on good terms.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 03:01 AM)

He was also mad when he got to Seattle because he thought he was supposed to be our future catcher. It wasn't only tears, but angryness from him. I don't know how he feels now because I stopped paying attention to his career after he couldn't get PT from Seattle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is not leaving on bad terms. That is just ridiculous. He wanted to stay here. That is all.

[jackie hayes]

You can't say "f*** him then." It just doesn't work that way. If it were just 1 or 2 players who've had a problem with the organization, it would be fine and dandy, but this organization is known to have rocky relationships and breakups. Also, don't forget Curt Schilling as he's said he'd never pitch for the Chicago White Sox. You might like the players, but the players do have alot of weight around the league, especially the star players. To simply dismiss any player who says they dislike the way the franchise handles things is ignorant IMO.

It's not really so many. I mean, Roger Clemens and Pedro Martinez, maybe 2 of the 10 best pitchers ever, have both recently had bitterness at their parting with the Red Sox, Schilling's current organization. All clubs have this problem.

 

But that doesn't justify Kenny, not by a long shot.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 03:06 AM)

It's not really so many.  I mean, Roger Clemens and Pedro Martinez, maybe 2 of the 10 best pitchers ever, have both recently had bitterness at their parting with the Red Sox, Schilling's current organization.  All clubs have this problem.

 

But that doesn't justify Kenny, not by a long shot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I wasn't stating that it did. People were mentioning that Frank was right by what he said that a lot of players left here on bad terms. I was debating that fact. Not defending Kenny at all.

Edited February 27, 2006 by southsideirish

[jackie hayes]

That is not leaving on bad terms. That is just ridiculous. He wanted to stay here. That is all.

Frank never said anything like that, right?

[TheDudeAbides]

and Jim Thome is in his prime?  Look Jim Thome is a bigger risk than Frank Thomas because he is being paid more money.  I love the fact that the Sox got Thome however he is just as big of a risk.

 

That may be true, but at least Thome's a team player

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 03:11 AM)

Frank never said anything like that, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Frank never said anything like Olivo did? No I don't think he did. Did he say he wanted to stay here? Yes he did, but he is going about it the wrong way. It is one thing to be mad about not being here anymore. It is another to throw your former organization under the bus and accusing them of things. Idon't remember Olivo, Alomar, or Robin doing anything like this. That is a huge difference.

[nitetrain8601]

First of all you are taking "f*** Alomar" out of context. What I was trying to get across was "Forget I brought Alomar up". No one can actually point out to me how he left, so I just said "f*** him". In other words forget I brought him up since we can't prove if he left on a good or bad note. I am not dismissing him at all.

 

I didn't know Schilling was a former player, so I really don't care about him. He would never pitch for the Sox because he believes, as do many, that Reinsdorf was responsible for the lockout. That is the only reason. Who the f*** cares about Schilling and what he thinks anyway? He should actually get off his high horse anyway.

 

David Wells left our organization on good terms.

 

You may not care, but other players around the league probably do. Players talk with other players and they do influence decisions.

 

And Olivo was pissed because I guess he wasn't notified about being on the block. You can't dismiss these players as examples so quickly. Some may still be bitter, some may not. I'm just stating that what Frank is saying isn't false.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Feb 26, 2006 -> 09:46 PM)

Roberto Alomar and Miguel Olivo left on awful terms.  Don't you remember Alomar pretty much calling KW a liar.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HUH?

 

IIRC, Alomar fired his agent after 2003 because he f***ed up a deal where the White Sox were going to re-sign him. Olivo was a crybaby.

[nitetrain8601]

HUH?

 

IIRC, Alomar fired his agent after 2003 because he f***ed up a deal where the White Sox were going to re-sign him.  Olivo was a crybaby.

 

I don't think that's true. Wasn't Alomar the one which he said, KW told him he was going to resign him for X amount of dollars and when he was about to sign the contract, it was something else which set off Robbie? I'm pretty sure that's him.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 03:14 AM)

You may not care, but other players around the league probably do. Players talk with other players and they do influence decisions.

 

And Olivo was pissed because I guess he wasn't notified about being on the block. You can't dismiss these players as examples so quickly. Some may still be bitter, some may not. I'm just stating that what Frank is saying isn't false.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They do? I would highly doubt that other players care what Curt Schilling think or says. I also think that most have forgotten all about the lockout just as many fans have.

 

Ok, then just take any player that ever left the Sox. Who knows if they are bitter that they left the Sox. We have no clue how they really feel regardless of what they say. Olivo wasn't pissed at all.

 

What Frank said wasn't false, it just wasn't entirely true. The White Sox are not a player unfriendly organization. Thome wanted to be here. Konerko wants to be here and took less to stay. Many players like it here and for the most part players have come and gone with nothing bad to say at all. Only a select few have had bad things to say or left with animosity. That is where he is wrong.

[jackie hayes]

Frank never said anything like Olivo did? No I don't think he did. Did he say he wanted to stay here? Yes he did, but he is going about it the wrong way. It is one thing to be mad about not being here anymore. It is another to throw your former organization under the bus and accusing them of things. Idon't remember Olivo, Alomar, or Robin doing anything like this. That is a huge difference.

Except he hasn't done anything like that. He said that he would have appreciated a phone call earlier. I think he's wrong, but that's a LONG way from throwing the organization under the bus. Maggs called Guillen his enemy. Frank just said he was hurt that he wasn't called. Those two aren't even comparable. They're both wrong, but they aren't even close.

 

Here's what Frank said about staying w/ the Sox:

Arvia: Realistically, they're not going to offer arbitration to a guy in a cast.

 

Thomas: We knew that. But my agent (Arn Tellem) told me he had spoken to Jerry (Reinsdorf) and they were going to renegotiate the contract for one year. I had no problem with that. I had a $10 million option; I knew I wasn't going to get that next year. It wasn't even about the money. It was about that pride coming back. I thought they would restructure it and that would be it.

 

Arvia: The buyout was $3.5 million. Are you saying if they tossed another $1 million on top of that, you'd be in a Sox uniform?

 

Thomas: Most definitely. It wasn't even about the money. Money never even came up. Arn said he had spoken with Jerry, they said they were going to renegotiate, that was it, I thought I'd end up restructuring the option. That's all I knew. So when all the Jim Thome stuff came up and bringing back Paulie, I just thought, "Hey, we're going to have one hell of a thumping middle of the lineup and we're going to find a way of doing it just like we did the year before." I didn't think anything of it.

 

I kept seeing everything in the newspaper because I was there at the time, but I was like, "No one has told me nothing, so I guess it's not going to affect me."

Yeah, it's more detailed than what Olivo was quoted for, but that's because it's Frank Thomas, and not a baby catcher. He makes it very clear that he'd like to be with the Sox.

[UC76]

All I know is that I love what Williams said. I love Frank but he was a baby with the Sox and he's continued to be a baby even after leaving. Someone should have said exactly what KW did a long time ago.

 

Sometimes the truth hurts.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 03:24 AM)

Except he hasn't done anything like that.  He said that he would have appreciated a phone call earlier.  I think he's wrong, but that's a LONG way from throwing the organization under the bus.  Maggs called Guillen his enemy.  Frank just said he was hurt that he wasn't called.  Those two aren't even comparable.  They're both wrong, but they aren't even close.

 

Here's what Frank said about staying w/ the Sox:Yeah, it's more detailed than what Olivo was quoted for, but that's because it's Frank Thomas, and not a baby catcher.  He makes it very clear that he'd like to be with the Sox.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

By insinuating that an orgnization is a player unfriendly organization and has been for years is throwing an organization under the bus. Naming players that have left badly years and years ago. The common denominator in all that is Reinsdorf. Not the way KW handles the players, but the organization which includes Reinsdorf in particular. So yes, Frank has done that. Frank is always hurt. He is a big crybaby. Oh my pride. WAAHHHHHHH!!!! But wait, let me tell the papers that I am not the first to lead on bad terms. This organization is known for this. I am not the selfish one. It is the organization that is wrong. That is throwing the organization under the bus. But hey, take it anyway that you want. See it anyway you want to see it.

Edited February 27, 2006 by southsideirish

[nitetrain8601]

They do? I would highly doubt that other players care what Curt Schilling think or says. I also think that most have forgotten all about the lockout just as many fans have.

 

Ok, then just take any player that ever left the Sox. Who knows if they are bitter that they left the Sox. We have no clue how they really feel regardless of what they say. Olivo wasn't pissed at all.

 

What Frank said wasn't false, it just wasn't entirely true. The White Sox are not a player unfriendly organization. Thome wanted to be here. Konerko wants to be here and took less to stay. Many players like it here and for the most part players have come and gone with nothing bad to say at all. Only a select few have had bad things to say or left with animosity. That is where he is wrong.

 

I'm pretty sure they do care what Curt Schilling says when players who were on the team say it as well.

 

Olivo was pissed and I don't know why you dont take that into consideration. And don't forget about the way KW toyed around with Kelly Wunsch before he dropped him. And do you honestly think that PK stays if they don't go 5 years and/or add Thome? I personally don't.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 03:30 AM)

I'm pretty sure they do care what Curt Schilling says when players who were on the team say it as well.

 

Olivo was pissed and I don't know why you dont take that into consideration. And don't forget about the way KW toyed around with Kelly Wunsch before he dropped him. And do you honestly think that PK stays if they don't go 5 years and/or add Thome? I personally don't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I highly doubt that, I really do. Curt Schilling has a lot to say about a lot of things and most people couldn't care less about what he has to say.

 

Olivo was not pissed. He was sad that he couldn't stay. Not pissed. KW toyed with Kelly Wunsch? I believe the rumor was that Kenny didn't want him around the clubhouse. Rumors were he was a bad clubhouse guy. Fact is Paulie took less to stay here for the same amount of years. Thome actually wanted to come here. Turn it and twist it to fit your argument. Do what you have to do. Whatever dude.

Edited February 27, 2006 by southsideirish

[Rex Hudler]

You seem to be one of the few that thinks that.  Kenny was pushed and prodded until he couldn't just shut up about it anymore.  If he had kept quiet, he'd just be a pussy that wouldn't stand up for his own team.  From the way it sounds, the players are glad that Frank is gone and this whole thing could be a benefit to the chemistry.  KW sees himself as a part of the team, and he won't let a spoiled fatass like Thomas speak so poorly of the organization as a whole.

 

I disagree completely. KW wasn't pushed and prodded. He doesn't have to read the papers. He can keep his focus in the media on this year's team, not the past.

 

Many athletes keep their focus on the field by not reading the papers and listening to sports talk radio. Ignoring the "noise" allows them to keep their focus on what they need to do on the field. This same premise should apply to KW in this instance. Ignore what Frank says and focus on this year.