Thomas takes high road in response to Williams

[IlliniKrush]

Mike Wilbon: "Frank is in an urn."

 

Classic.

 

Oh wait, two other journalists say Frank brought it on himself.

What's the count up to?

 

And these are all unbiased guys.

[White Sox Josh]

Once again,  who was he ripping?  Did he take personal jabs at Kenny or Jerry?  Did he diss Ozzie?  Did he disss any of the players or fans?

Southtown Exclusive: Bitter batter?

 

Frank Thomas says no -- and plenty more -- in 1-on-1 session with Daily Southtown sports columnist Phil Arvia

 

Sunday, February 26, 2006

 

PHOENIX — The White Sox should have traded him in 2000.

 

But he would have signed with them for $1 million in 2006 if he'd been given a chance.

 

Frank Thomas said those things, and much more, to Daily Southtown columnist Phil Arvia in a wide-ranging conversation Friday as Thomas sat on a picnic table in the shade outside the batting cages at the Oakland Athletics' training facility.

 

Thomas was relaxed after a brief morning workout, eagerly anticipating the medical clearance that was to get him into the cage Saturday for the first time since his final White Sox season ended last July 21. His serene good humor never left him, even as he touched on his belief that steroids cost him millions, the thought that his relationship with Ken Williams was doomed from the start, his disappointment in Jerry Reinsdorf and warned of karmic payback.

 

At one point, Thomas even stood and jumped from foot to foot, laughing while showing off the health he said will make him the biggest bargain in the majors this season.

 

Even so, the man Ozzie Guillen called the greatest hitter in Sox history couldn't help but show off the form that also made him a lightning rod for debate in 16 years on the South Side.

 

Arvia: At U.S. Cellular Field, there's a Carlton Fisk statue, there's a Minnie Minoso statue. Do you see that coming for you one day?

 

Thomas: I hope so. Believe me, Carlton was a hell of a player, but I think my career there was a much more shining star, shined more brightly. I did some amazing things in that uniform. But Carlton didn't leave on the best terms, either, and we all know that.

 

Arvia: Right. Joey Cora didn't leave on the best terms. Ozzie Guillen (ticked) people off going out the door. Now they're back in the fold and everything's cool, so do you figure ...

 

Thomas: I'm not trying to (tick) anybody off. That's the whole point. The way I look at things, I'm the one who should have the beef, not them.

 

(The Sox acquired Jim Thome in a trade with Philadelphia on Nov. 25. They re-signed Paul Konerko on Nov. 30. They had until Dec. 7 to offer arbitration to Thomas, who was still in a cast at that point, and did not. Eventually, Thomas signed with Oakland for $500,000, plus incentives.)

 

Arvia: Realistically, they're not going to offer arbitration to a guy in a cast.

 

Thomas: We knew that. But my agent (Arn Tellem) told me he had spoken to Jerry (Reinsdorf) and they were going to renegotiate the contract for one year. I had no problem with that. I had a $10 million option; I knew I wasn't going to get that next year. It wasn't even about the money. It was about that pride coming back. I thought they would restructure it and that would be it.

 

Arvia: The buyout was $3.5 million. Are you saying if they tossed another $1 million on top of that, you'd be in a Sox uniform?

 

Thomas: Most definitely. It wasn't even about the money. Money never even came up. Arn said he had spoken with Jerry, they said they were going to renegotiate, that was it, I thought I'd end up restructuring the option. That's all I knew. So when all the Jim Thome stuff came up and bringing back Paulie, I just thought, "Hey, we're going to have one hell of a thumping middle of the lineup and we're going to find a way of doing it just like we did the year before." I didn't think anything of it.

 

I kept seeing everything in the newspaper because I was there at the time, but I was like, "No one has told me nothing, so I guess it's not going to affect me."

 

Arvia: On a personal side, I can understand hurt feelings. On a business side, can you see where the Sox are coming from?

 

Thomas: No, I can't — because it was about health. They knew. My doctor told them I would be healthy this year. If they had given me a physical or blah, blah, blah, then you could have made that assumption — "He's not going to be back next year." I'm fine. I feel great. I'm on schedule.

 

Arvia: Honestly, from my point of view, the Carl Everett thing with you, that was because they weren't sure about you ...

 

Thomas: No. Kenny put too many guys together. You can look through that. He put too many great players together. He put Carl and I, who could start for anybody any day of the week, in a situation.

 

Arvia: And you guys handled it well ...

 

Thomas: We did handle it well, because we pulled each other aside and said, "Hey, it's about winning for this team," and we did that. We developed a great relationship.

 

Arvia: But why do that again? Why set up that situation again? That's the way I look at it. Thome's in the cage now, he's running ...

 

Thomas: Good.

 

Arvia: ... he's doing all that stuff ...

 

Thomas: Right.

 

Arvia: ... and you're not yet.

 

Thomas: Right. It's not that I can't do it. I can run right now.

 

Arvia: How are the Sox going to know that at the time?

 

Thomas: Don't you think I deserve that respect to get that done? Been voted the century's No. 1 player in your organization? I own every record in that organization. Don't you think I should have deserved a little more respect than that?

 

Arvia: I don't know that I think I see it as disrespect, though, Frank. I see it as sometimes it's a brutal business.

 

Thomas: I'm 37 years old, I'm not 41. (Bursts out laughing.) If I'm 41 years old, on my last legs, that's a different thing.

 

(Unprompted, Thomas expressed a desire to clear up some things he said at his introductory news conference in Oakland about Thome — essentially, that Thome hadn't accomplished the things Thomas had in his career.)

 

Thomas: Always, what you read was not the way things were said. That's why I like doing TV interviews. When they came out to that opening press conference, I told them, "There's no animosity here, there's no bitterness." I had nothing but smiles and good things to say.

 

They brought up this situation about Jimmy, and Jimmy's a great friend of mine, I love him to death, I've got great respect for him, he's a great, great player.

 

But what I've done for that organization over the last 16 years, I deserved a little better respect than that. You take care of your own before you do things like that, and I just really felt the White Sox have never really taken care of their own like they should — and I'm talking from me to Ozzie to Carlton — year in and year out, it always happens.

 

Arvia: It looks like they're starting to do that, though, with Paul Konerko, with Jon Garland (both of whom signed long-term deals during the offseason).

 

Thomas: Well, that's fine. That's fine. But, realistically, you look at those guys' careers, are they going to have the topside of what we did over those 16 years? I mean, really? Having guys 21 years old? I mean, Robin (Ventura). Guys that could have been cornerstones forever in your organization. Alex Fernandez, Wilson Alvarez. It just continues. OK?

 

(Also at the Oakland news conference, Thomas said he would not have thrown out a ceremonial first pitch during the playoffs had he known he was not going to be re-signed. He maintained that position Friday.)

 

Thomas: No, I wouldn't have done that if I knew I was going to leave.

 

Arvia: But that's got nothing to do with it. That's a chance for you to connect with the fans.

 

Thomas: I've already connected with the fans. The fans told you guys that they wanted me back. I had standing ovation after standing ovation there with the fans. That should have told everybody something. Don't act like you weren't there. You were there.

 

Arvia: I was there, and I saw ...

 

Thomas: And you're talking to me right now like I'm 40 years old. I'm not 40 years old. I'm 37. I'm in my prime.

 

You think about what Barry Bonds has done from the ages of 37 to 41. It shows you what a player 37 can do — 37 to 40 are your prime years. Baseball is a game, from the ages of 35 to 40, you know so much more.

 

Arvia: A big man with a bad wheel, though ...

 

Thomas: It's not as bad as people are saying. "A big man with a bad wheel." You guys are making it worse than what it was. You guys haven't got the injury right, that's the problem.

 

(Thomas said the injury that forced him off the field was a spiral fracture in a bone on the outside of his left foot below the ankle. He'd previously had surgery on the navicular bone, on the top of his foot, to repair a stress fracture.)

 

Arvia: Regardless, the hitting job you did last year was amazing, basically on no feet.

 

Thomas: That's what I'm telling people. I had (105) at-bats and hit 12 home runs. Am I done? Are you kidding me? How many guys in the league did that last year?

 

It wasn't about what I could do on the field, because I gave you 345 at-bats the last two years and calculate what I did in those 345 at-bats — 30 home runs and (75) RBI. Am I done?

 

Arvia: This I do know about you. Every time you've been (ticked) off about something, felt slighted about something, you've had a monster year because of it. Not making an All-Star Game, not making the Olympic team ...

 

Thomas: I've always been a highly emotional ballplayer. I care about playing. Yeah, it's OK to turn up the heat. It shows you when players are really locked in. Turn that heat up on them.

 

Arvia: You just used the phrase "highly emotional." You're a guy who has said some things that have not been received well. Do you ever regret some of the things you've said?

 

Thomas: Of course. You live and learn. No one's perfect. But I've never, I've never meant anything to harm anybody. People that really know me, they know me better than that.

 

I don't mean to harm anybody. I never meant to harm anybody. But the bottom line is this whole breakup here was not about my ability to play this game. If people sit there and say that, they're wrong.

 

Arvia: Then what was it about?

 

Thomas: I don't know. I've got a few inklings, but hey, I really don't know where they're coming from. It's time to move on and that's just the way it is. I just think that's what it was. The door was closed.

 

Arvia: You used the word "karma" earlier. What does that word mean to you?

 

Thomas: Karma to me means a lot of things you do in your life will come back to haunt you sometimes — on a daily basis.

 

Arvia: To me, it also means if you put out good, good comes back to you.

 

Thomas: Exactly. Most definitely. And I've put out a lot of good over my career and time. I'm just telling you right now — wholeheartedly, I was extremely loyal to that organization from Day 1. Extremely loyal. Believe me, I've been slighted more than once over there. More than once.

 

But I've held the high road. I've always held my chin high and was the bigger man in a lot of situations over there. Whenever things went bad, who was the one guy they always came to? Who was the one guy they always came to when the (stuff) hit the fan for that organization? Me. Who always stuck up for the organization. Me. Always.

 

(Thomas cited the "White Flag Trade," in which the Sox, then three games behind Cleveland in the AL Central, traded two starting pitchers and their closer for six prospects at the trade deadline in July 1997.)

 

Thomas: Who was the one guy who stood up for the organization? "We're gonna win with whatever we put out there." Me. Because I always felt, in the organization, you keep things in the organization and you work it out.

 

I've always been a stand-up guy for them. That's just the way I've always handled things.

 

No animosity anymore, because I've cleared my head and I know I'm moving forward now.

 

(Assuming he stays healthy — and Thomas does assume that — he guessed he could play in the neighborhood of 130 games this season. Though he enters this season 52 home runs shy of 500, it is not his intent to simply play for the milestone.)

 

Arvia: You're not just 500 homers and done?

 

Thomas: Oh no, no, no, no, no. I want to play at least for another four or five more years. I've always wanted to play until I'm 41, 42.

 

Arvia: When you go in the Hall of Fame — and I fully believe you will go in the Hall of Fame — I don't want anybody asking the question of what hat you're going to wear. I know it's really the Hall's choice. But I don't want anybody asking the question, "What hat is Frank Thomas going to wear into the Hall of Fame?"

 

Thomas: I don't think that's ever going to be a possibility because of 16 years there, in that same organization. That's the way it's handled nowadays. And that's not even a question. I've got a lot of pride in that city of Chicago. I love Chicago. The family's there. The fans were great to me.

 

I don't want people to confuse any of that. I'm not bitter with the city of Chicago, not one bit. I want people to know that.

 

I'm just a little upset with the way things were handled. If people had just called me and done the right things that way, it would have been fine. But you just don't treat a player, the special player that I'd been for them for so long, with that much disrespect — overnight.

 

(Thomas contended he deserved to be called prior to Konerko's signing and the resulting speculation that it would end his Sox career. Williams has said he left Thomas a message with an invitation to call him back.)

 

Thomas: Kenny left me one message in all this, and that's the day he signed Paul Konerko. He left it on the voice mail, said, "I know you've seen we signed Konerko, and I can help you try to get signed somewhere else." Those were the words that came to me over my cell phone. You think I'm going to call back on some (stuff) like that?

 

I'm not begging to play nowhere else. I know what I can do. I'm not an average player, and I've never been. That's the way I was handled, and that was wrong.

 

Arvia: Do you feel like you'll be able to have a relationship again with Jerry Reinsdorf, with Kenny Williams?

 

Thomas: Of course. I've never said I hate these people or anything like that.

 

Like I said before, if they had just called and said, "Thanks for the ride, we're going a different direction," I could handle that.

 

That's all I wanted. That was the whole thing.

 

I understand this business. I've seen too many guys come and go. But I really thought what I did — 16 years — that somebody would have called me and said, "We're going in a different direction." I don't need you to read it in the newspaper that there's a three-man triangle and somebody's going to be out. But that's the position I was put in.

 

Arvia: Did you ever talk to Jerry?

 

Thomas: He left me a message a week after all that blew up in Chicago. I never got back because it's a done deal now. What's he going to tell me now, a week later, after the whole city has made their point? I've got a lot of respect for Jerry Reinsdorf, I do. But I really thought, the relationship we had over the last 16 years, he would have picked up the phone to say, "Big guy, we're moving forward. We're going somewhere different. We don't know your situation or what's going to happen." I can live with that. I really can.

 

But treating me like some passing-by player? I've got no respect for that.

 

I don't want the people in Chicago to think I'm bitter and I'm angry, because I'm not. I'm really not. I'm really happy and I'm relishing this opportunity.

 

I'm coming in with an open mind, and I know this is a great team, and I want to be a positive influence on this team.

 

Arvia: The weird thing about this is A's GM Billy Beane and Kenny are pretty tight (or were until Beane made some disparaging remarks about Williams in a book) ...

 

Thomas: No it isn't. Bottom line, Kenny and I have never seen eye to eye, from Day 1. There's no secret about that. It started in 2000. That has stuck with him from Day 1, when he took the job in 2000.

 

I would have been better off in 2000 asking to be traded instead of sitting in that situation I did for that five years. After we lost to Seattle in the playoffs that year, I should have been traded.

 

That's when the bitterness started, and it was over a contract. You're damn right. And you saw how it ended up — first superstar in the game to get money taken off the (bleeping) plate. That's where all that started.

 

(Thomas tore his right triceps in May 2001. After coming back to hit a subpar .252 with 28 homers and 92 RBI in 2002, he and the Sox agreed to tear up the four option seasons worth a total of $40 million remaining on his then-current deal — which the Sox could have voided by invoking its "diminished skills" clause — and signed him to a deal that ultimately paid him $22.5 million through his 2005 buyout.)

 

Thomas: And now we look back at that now and wonder why it was "diminishing skill" — (28) homers and (92) ribbies would have looked great if everybody wasn't (bleeping) juicing, OK?

 

That's a great year from a lot of guys, but I was coming back from an injury that year. The next year, what did I do?

 

(Thomas hit 42 homers and drove in 104 runs while hitting .267 in 2003, the first year of his renegotiated deal. Thomas had wanted to have the option years of the previous deal guaranteed after the 2000 season, three years after they were put in place, but said Williams, who came on the job Oct. 24, 2000, refused to do so. Thomas was without representation at the time, as the agent who negotiated the '97 pact for Thomas, Robert Fraley, was killed in a plane crash in October 1999.)

 

Thomas: In 2000, I wanted to get it handled, because that was the year I had 43 and (143), and we lost to Seattle in the playoffs. That's when Kenny and I went (he gives the raspberry) about that situation. All I wanted was to have my damn contract guaranteed — and it deserved to be guaranteed then.

 

The (diminished skills clause) was already in there, but that's because ... when we signed that contract, I was the first guy to have an extension for seven years. It was more of a guinea pig contract.

 

(Thomas contended the erased $40 million was "money that I already earned, by baseball standards.")

 

Arvia: On past accomplishments?

 

Thomas: Exactly. Every contract in this game is like that. But I had done a lot more than anybody in this game, so I (bleeping) earned it. But he came in with this new regime ... that's where the bad blood started.

 

If anybody looked at it, they would have felt the same (bleeping) way, if they'd done what I'd done in this game for 10 years.

 

That's what happened. That's where the bad blood started. I did everything to bite my tongue over the last five years, to keep things on the high road with this organization.

 

That was it. It would have never happened if, after 2000, I would have just said, "Go ahead and trade me when the year ends." And I was coming off my biggest year ever.

 

(Thomas noted he had another big year in '03, when he made $5 million.)

 

Thomas: Didn't nobody rush back to me to give me what I'd already earned.

 

Now you understand, from 2000 to 2005, how I thought about things. But I bit my lip. I'm like, "OK, let's get to work."

 

If they were in that situation, they all would have felt the same. And I know each and every one of them would have. Each and every person in this game would have felt that way, no doubt about it.

What in here is ripping on the team.

[aboz56]

He's two years older than Jim Thome.

I think he's talking about the urn KW put him in.

 

In other words, he got buried.

[Rowand44]

We've all read the damn article wsj, no need to take up more space in this thread by re-posting it.

[White Sox Josh]

That excuse only works for Frank and not Kenny, I bet, right?

he was caught saying it on f***ing tape. I heard what he said and he wasn't misquoted. If anything they made it sound less mean in the papers.

[CWSGuy406]

Exactly.  This OBVIOUSLY isn't just about the Southtown interview.

 

Find me, what exactly Thomas said (in any interview) that deserves being called an idiot, and going public with the "dirty laundry".

 

This quote gets to me the most (from KW):

 

"If he was any kind of a man, he would quit talking about things in the paper and return a phone call or come knock on someone's door. If I had the kind of problems evidently he had with me, I would go knock on his door," he said.

 

Seems very hypocritical to me.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I think he's talking about the urn KW put him in.

 

In other words, he got buried.

 

Alright then. I thought you were saying that's he's old.

[jackie hayes]

LOL. You know you've pissed off another one when they start throwing the F word all over the place.

You know someone is being self-righteous when... Well, pick any post.

[IlliniKrush]

You know what's funny...

 

Nearly everyone threw Maggs under the bus last offseason.

Edited February 27, 2006 by IlliniKrush

[WHarris1]

he was caught saying it on f***ing tape.  I heard what he said and he wasn't misquoted.  If anything they made it sound less mean in the papers.

You said Frank said things just because he was angry and he couldn't control his emotions.

 

How in hell can the same not be said for KW?

[Rowand44]

What in here is ripping on the team.

Maybe the editor twisted some of the quotes so that it didn't look like he was bashing the team. :rolly

[Jordan4life_2007]

You know what's funny...

 

Nearly everyone threw Maggs under the bust last offseason.

 

Totally different situations.

[IlliniKrush]

You know someone is being self-righteous when...  Well, pick any post.

Oh no i can't state my opinion and say i support a team over a player because i disagree with you? Good stuff.

[White Sox Josh]

Also on Silvy & Carmen they talked about an interview with Greg Walker. They asked him what he thought of Frank. He said that Frank was great and easy to work with. He said he was well respected by his teammates and others. Why would Greg Walker lie?

[Steff]

You know what's funny...

 

Nearly everyone threw Maggs under the bust last offseason.

 

 

I sure did. Backed up and ran over his sorry butt again, too.

 

 

But I stood and cheered him when he took the field at the cell.

 

"Thanks for what you did while you were here".

[aboz56]

Also on Silvy & Carmen they talked about an interview with Greg Walker.  They asked him what he thought of Frank.  He said that Frank was great and easy to work with.  He said he was well respected by his teammates and others.  Why would Greg Walker lie?

That's good, what does it have to do with anything?

[CWSGuy406]

Oh no i can't state my opinion and say i support a team over a player because i disagree with you? Good stuff.

 

I think he's more pissed about the "Frank Nation" quotes, which are pretty stupid in the first place.

 

Of course, JMO.

[Steff]

I think he's more pissed about the "Frank Nation" quotes, which are pretty stupid in the first place.

 

Of course, JMO.

 

 

 

Mine also.

[aboz56]

I think he's more pissed about the "Frank Nation" quotes, which are pretty stupid in the first place.

 

Of course, JMO.

Anyone who actually gets pissed about a post on a message board needs to step away from the keyboard.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Also on Silvy & Carmen they talked about an interview with Greg Walker.  They asked him what he thought of Frank.  He said that Frank was great and easy to work with.  He said he was well respected by his teammates and others.  Why would Greg Walker lie?

 

That's what I'm talking about. Players and coaches have had nothing but good things to say about Frank. Yet Kenny makes the "my players" and "my staff" hate Frank blah blah blah speech.

[Rowand44]

I think he's more pissed about the "Frank Nation" quotes, which are pretty stupid in the first place.

 

Of course, JMO.

Aren't you to little to be discussing this??

 

I'm sorry, I had to.

[IlliniKrush]

I sure did. Backed up and ran over his sorry butt again, too.

But I stood and cheered him when he took the field at the cell.

 

"Thanks for what you did while you were here".

Yeah, i know you did.

 

Not everyone did what you did, i don't believe. Just pointing that out.

 

Steff i respect your opinion, we just disagree. But at least you have logic there, instead of "i love frank, period" like some of the other posters.

[Jordan4life_2007]

That's good, what does it have to do with anything?

 

I hate to say this, but you're being ignorant as f***. What do you mean what does that have to do with anything? It means that either Walker is a fake or Kenny is a liar.

[Rowand44]

That's what I'm talking about.  Players and coaches have had nothing but good things to say about Frank.  Yet Kenny makes the "my players" and "my staff" hate Frank blah blah blah speech.

That's one person. I'm sure there are mixed feelings on Frank as a person, and even Paul in a recent article kind of took a little jab at Frank.

[CWSGuy406]

Anyone who actually gets pissed about a post on a message board needs to step away from the keyboard.

 

Well, it's a message board. We can't tell if it's good natured ripping when you say "Frank Nation", or if you're serious.

 

Obviously, I think you stirred up some emotion in saying that people are just blinded by Frank's on-field performance. Not me, of course, as I don't think I've referred to Frank's stats as part of my argument -- but others (rightly or wrongly).