fathom Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Mar 3, 2006 -> 06:20 AM) He was kind of stunned. I still think Hinrich is far more clutch than anyone gives him credit for. People look at a last second shot, but he's often the guy who all of a sudden starts whooping ass in the 3rd and 4th quarter while bringing the Bulls back into the game. Hinrich does do an excellent job at getting the Bulls back in games. However, he continuously fails to hit that last second shot to either win or tie the game for the Bulls. After Gordon proved he could step up and hit the "Onions" shot last season, it's just disappointing to see Skiles not just put the ball in his hands more. That last play was designed terribly, as even if Gordon got the ball from Noc on the curl, he would have been going away from the basket with basically two guys on him. It's really amazing how many close games the Bulls seem to play in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Mar 3, 2006 -> 12:20 AM) I would agree with that. I don't like that play going to Noc, but it looked as if the play was drawn up for Gordon to curl around and Noc to give him the ball, but for some reason Gordon started coming to Noc and than curled the other way, leaving Noc on his own. He was kind of stunned. I still think Hinrich is far more clutch than anyone gives him credit for. People look at a last second shot, but he's often the guy who all of a sudden starts whooping ass in the 3rd and 4th quarter while bringing the Bulls back into the game. What ticked me off was there was a stretch of a few minutes in the 4th where Kirk was just handing it to the Cavs, whether it was driving in and stopping and popping a jumper or driving and kicking it to Songalia or someone else. But than Skiles brings in Duhon and that f*** holds the ball. I just don't like the way Duhon runs the offense when compared to Kirk. Duh does a solid job running offenses, but Kirk is one of the best pg's in the biz when it comes to that standpoint and when he's just been whooping ass they should be milking it and going with it. Duhon can't work pick and rolls cause he can't shoot for s*** so why when the pick and roll is working so well do you take the ball out of Hinrich's hand and put it in Duh's while moving Hinrich to the oft guard spot. That I'll never know. I love Skiles, but I just dont' like how he takes the ball out of Kirk's hands. Like fathom said, Kirk is great in helping bring the team back, but he completely chokes in the clutch. He misses FT's, layups, or does something that screams choke. I also think Duhon runs the offense much better than Kirk. That's the only reason he gets PT. Kirk is good at getting his own shots, but he still can't make a post entry feed(hasn't been good at that since high school) and the offense is a stalemate for the most part when he's on the floor moreso than it is for Duhon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Mar 3, 2006 -> 06:30 AM) Like fathom said, Kirk is great in helping bring the team back, but he completely chokes in the clutch. He misses FT's, layups, or does something that screams choke. I also think Duhon runs the offense much better than Kirk. That's the only reason he gets PT. Kirk is good at getting his own shots, but he still can't make a post entry feed(hasn't been good at that since high school) and the offense is a stalemate for the most part when he's on the floor moreso than it is for Duhon. If Duhon was so much better at running the offense, why isn't he the starting PG. I'm not going to say anything else though. Obviously we differ on opinon way too much. You dislike Kirk and dont' think he's any good. I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 3, 2006 -> 06:15 AM) BTW, the single most ridiculous thing I've seen by the Bulls all year is that they won't give the ball to Gordon at the end of the game. He's the only guy on the team who can create a shot whenever he wants. They could have anywhere from 3-10 more wins if they were able to make that clutch shot at the end. Do you watch every game? Ben Gordon can't dribble or pass. He's terrible. You don't give the ball to that guy under and circumstances. Some of his Assist-To-Turnover numbers have been thoroughly amusing as of late. Against Detroit: 0 Assists, 5 Turnovers Against Cleveland: 1 Assist, 5 Turnovers It's the other way around. If Ben Gordon isn't on this team, we're 3 to 10 games better in the standings. You don't win with players like Ben Gordon. You win with players like Kirk, Tyson, Nocioni, Deng, and Duhon. Ben is bringing them all down. He's a New York Knick, just like I've said a million times before. I'm sure he's a nice guy in the locker room, but he is a cancer when he's out on the floor. It's pathetic. I haven't missed a game in two months (you know, because I'm such a Tyson homer). I key into what Ben is doing at all times because I'm such a blatant hater. My hate is justified, let me tell you! /hopes he doesn't sound like arrogant jerk who makes enemies Edited March 3, 2006 by hammerhead johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I gotta expand upon this and say the only guy who should touch the ball for a shot in the last minute of a game is Ben Gordon. I have seen nothing of Hinrich, Duhon, Nocioni or anyone else that has shown me that they have the moxie to knock down a shot when it matters, even if they are camped out alone somewhere. I don't know that I have ever seen a team choke so often at the end of a game without having the Cubs bullpen involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 3, 2006 -> 06:37 PM) I gotta expand upon this and say the only guy who should touch the ball for a shot in the last minute of a game is Ben Gordon. Yeah, he can hit clutch shots if he gets open, but the fact that he can't dribble his way out of a hairy situation or make an accurate pass to an open man when the game is on the line is what I'm concerned with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Mar 3, 2006 -> 02:08 PM) Yeah, he can hit clutch shots if he gets open, but the fact that he can't dribble his way out of a hairy situation or make an accurate pass to an open man when the game is on the line is what I'm concerned with. The fact he can hit a shot if he is open is still light years above the rest of the team... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 3, 2006 -> 07:54 PM) The fact he can hit a shot if he is open is still light years above the rest of the team... Right, but that's like Rob Deer being your best hitter or something along those lines. I definitely want a big SG who can actually dribble, penetrate, hit the open man, score on the drive, score in the mid-range, hit shots at a respectable rate from the outside, body up on smaller SGs and just abuse them all day, etc. I want that go-to guy when the game is on the line, I want a 80% free throw shooter, etc. In other words, I want Paul Pierce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Mar 3, 2006 -> 05:51 PM) Do you watch every game? Ben Gordon can't dribble or pass. He's terrible. You don't give the ball to that guy under and circumstances. Yes, I watch every game, and the team you listed earlier with Hinrich, Deng, Chandler, Noc, etc. would be a great team if scoring wasn't important. Gordon might have a lot of weaknesses on the court. However, one of his greatest strengths has been his clutch performances at the end of games. I'm sick and f***ing tired of seeing Hinrich not come through at the end of games. He's the pro version of Chris Quinn. Great for 95 pct of the game, but downright pathetic for the final 5 pct of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Bulls need to win tonight for 2 reasons. Bulls win + bump the Knicks closer to the top pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Mar 3, 2006 -> 09:41 AM) If Duhon was so much better at running the offense, why isn't he the starting PG. I'm not going to say anything else though. Obviously we differ on opinon way too much. You dislike Kirk and dont' think he's any good. I don't. I don't think he sucks and I think he's a quality player, but he gets overrated alot for "trying." And Duhon isn't starting right now because the Bulls want as many scorers on the floor to start the game. Gordon takes pressure off of KH believe it or not. Duhon could be a starter for at least half the teams in the league though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 3, 2006 -> 02:30 PM) Yes, I watch every game, and the team you listed earlier with Hinrich, Deng, Chandler, Noc, etc. would be a great team if scoring wasn't important. Gordon might have a lot of weaknesses on the court. However, one of his greatest strengths has been his clutch performances at the end of games. I'm sick and f***ing tired of seeing Hinrich not come through at the end of games. He's the pro version of Chris Quinn. Great for 95 pct of the game, but downright pathetic for the final 5 pct of the game. Thank you. Defense keeps you in games, offense is needed to win them. Or has there been a team in basketball history that I don't know about that has won by the score of 0-0? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Mar 3, 2006 -> 03:52 PM) Thank you. Defense keeps you in games, offense is needed to win them. Or has there been a team in basketball history that I don't know about that has won by the score of 0-0? The Pistons won a championship on defense. The Bulls won championships playing defense. The Spurs, etc. You have to play defense to win a championship. Obviously you need other intangibles and assets, but if you can play defense at the level the Bulls are capable of (and they will only improve defensively) than you will find yourselves in the playoffs year in and year out. And defense is even more important come playoff time. Obviously this team needs a scorer or two (a big guard and a PF/C). But they have money and draft picks to add those final two pieces. Plus Gordon/Duh/Noc as trade bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Francis is droppin bombs on ya, BWAHAHA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Mar 3, 2006 -> 06:49 PM) I don't think he sucks and I think he's a quality player, but he gets overrated alot for "trying." And Duhon isn't starting right now because the Bulls want as many scorers on the floor to start the game. Gordon takes pressure off of KH believe it or not. Duhon could be a starter for at least half the teams in the league though. Yep, I agree. The idea that he's a better PG than Kirk is ridiculous. comcast is horrible, and nice way of treating one of the most must-win games that they have (since it is directly related to their draft position). Down by double-digits to such a bad team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Well Gordon finally got the ball in the clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 And wouldn't you know it, right on cue, Steve Francis turns the ball over. EDIT: AND AGAIN!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 The Knicks suck so much. What a mess of a franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Knicks suck lmao. Fans booing them its great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I guess that game was proof why Gordon sucks so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I guess that game was proof why Gordon sucks so much. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think that anyone has questioned Gordon's scoring ability. Most people here have questioned his ball-handling and defensive abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 4, 2006 -> 11:28 PM) I don't think that anyone has questioned Gordon's scoring ability. Most people here have questioned his ball-handling and defensive abilities. 'cept for Skiles who says Gordon has improved on both, though he still has work to put in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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