jphat007 Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:23 PM) Then s***, what does your defontion of cheap mean? :rolly A lot less than it would take to get any of those guys. This isn't fantasy baseball. Bullpen help is difficult to find and nobody likes to give it up. I know you'd like KW to just go and cherry pick anybody he wants from teams, but that's not the way it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:23 PM) Nothing is guaranteed. But considering some of the money the White Sox have thrown around this off season, its pretty incredible to me no money was thrown at the bullpen. Bullpen performances have been known for their fluxuation from year to year. KW at Soxfest spoke about how strong he thought the bullpen would be. I hope he's right, but I disagree with him if he's going with what he's got. Kenny did recently say that he was gonna wait until spring training to see where Dustin is at and evaluate from there. I took that as him probably going out and makin a move if he doesn't feel Hermy is at or close to 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 04:26 PM) Kenny did recently say that he was gonna wait until spring training to see where Dustin is at and evaluate from there. I took that as him probably going out and makin a move if he doesn't feel Hermy is at or close to 100%. Uh.. it is Spring Training right now.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 09:26 PM) Kenny did recently say that he was gonna wait until spring training to see where Dustin is at and evaluate from there. I took that as him probably going out and makin a move if he doesn't feel Hermy is at or close to 100%. And that's all we're saying in this thread. We think that it's very likely that KW will have to add bullpen help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:23 PM) Nothing is guaranteed. But considering some of the money the White Sox have thrown around this off season, its pretty incredible to me no money was thrown at the bullpen. Bullpen performances have been known for their fluxuation from year to year. KW at Soxfest spoke about how strong he thought the bullpen would be. I hope he's right, but I disagree with him if he's going with what he's got. If bullpen performances would fluxuate so much, why in the world would you want KW to throw that much money at bullpen guys who are not gaurenteed to get the job done? How does that make sense. Why don't you make improvements in other areas where they will be much more likely to make an impact. And you'll forgive me if I trust KW's opinion over yours. He is around the team a little bit more than you are. And considering he just won a world series, I think he has a good idea of what we need on this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:25 PM) A lot less than it would take to get any of those guys. This isn't fantasy baseball. Bullpen help is difficult to find and nobody likes to give it up. I know you'd like KW to just go and cherry pick anybody he wants from teams, but that's not the way it works. A guy like Taveras was a free agent and signed for a little more than $3 million a year. That's not that expensive. Although I'm not a big fan, Mike Myers signed with the Yankees for $1.2 million a year, not too expensive, and he's a far better option than any of the idiots they have vying for that position right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 01:16 PM) Because one or two games may make a difference between being in the playoffs and making sure you make your tee times. Sure, and spending extra money in March for a player that may or may not be needed may financially-inhibit KW from pulling off a big trade in July. I agree that the Sox need another experienced reliever (prefereably a lefty), but we're not even halfway through Spring Training yet. Why not give KW and Ozzie the chance to evaluate our current pitching talent/health and worry about them making another trade next month? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 How's this for another concern....I don't know how well McCarthy's change-up will be if he comes in for one inning every couple of days. He keeps saying it's a feel pitch, and it's hard to get in a rhythm if you're facing only a few batters at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Felix @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:27 PM) Uh.. it is Spring Training right now.. I meant to say the end of spring training. Edited March 11, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 09:31 PM) Sure, and spending extra money in March for a player that may or may not be needed may financially-inhibit KW from pulling off a big trade in July. Ummmm...we just traded for Cintron and his 1.6 million dollar contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:27 PM) And that's all we're saying in this thread. We think that it's very likely that KW will have to add bullpen help. Well, yah, I think it is safe to say that if Hermy is hurt, KW won't go with a 5 man bullpen. It's quite apparent that somebody will ahve to go in there if Hermanson is hurt. Might have to be a minor leaguer though. Our funds are stretched thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:33 PM) Well, yah, I think it is safe to say that if Hermy is hurt, KW won't go with a 5 man bullpen. It's quite apparent that somebody will ahve to go in there if Hermanson is hurt. Might have to be a minor leaguer though. Our funds are stretched thin. Hermanson has said more than once that his back is no longer a problem. Take it as you will. Edited March 11, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:28 PM) If bullpen performances would fluxuate so much, why in the world would you want KW to throw that much money at bullpen guys who are not gaurenteed to get the job done? How does that make sense. Why don't you make improvements in other areas where they will be much more likely to make an impact. And you'll forgive me if I trust KW's opinion over yours. He is around the team a little bit more than you are. And considering he just won a world series, I think he has a good idea of what we need on this team. He is and I can't argue that, but I also was the one who said KW should trade Shingo last year before the season when his salary was going up, and chances of his repeat performance slim. I was blasted on this board. Pitching won the White Sox the WS. KW neglected the bullpen believing they could find an effective pitcher for the minimum, and believing the current members can repeat their performances. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not excited about the bullpen. KW's reason for 6 starters was if one or two need a break or have an injury then he would be covered. A crappy bullpen only will extend the starters, making injury and poorer performance by them more likely. I also think KW knows his bullpen needs help. He's not going to come out and say it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 01:28 PM) Why don't you make improvements in other areas where they will be much more likely to make an impact. Like addressing our lineup's wretched OBP last year and re-signing our best hitter? Check, KW's already done that. If bullpen performances would fluxuate so much, why in the world would you want KW to throw that much money at bullpen guys who are not gaurenteed to get the job done? How does that make sense. Perhaps Kenny remebers paying a 35-year-old washed-up Japanese reliever $2.5 million last year to put up a 5.97 ERA in the closer role. Spending $2-$3 million/year on an "established" reliever doesn't always translate into production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:35 PM) Hermanson has said more than once that his back is not a problem. Take it as you will. His back might not be a problem, but his 82 MPH fastball is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:38 PM) Like addressing our lineup's wretched OBP last year and re-signing our best hitter? Check, KW's already done that. Perhaps Kenny remebers paying a 35-year-old washed-up Japanese reliever $2.5 million last year to put up a 5.97 ERA in the closer role. Spending $2-$3 million/year on an "established" reliever doesn't always translate into production. A half a season as a closer is hardly "established". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 01:40 PM) A half a season as a closer is hardly "established". But being a stud for many years in Japan certainly is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:41 PM) But being a stud for many years in Japan certainly is. Japan and MLB are night and day. See Matsui, Kaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 01:33 PM) Ummmm...we just traded for Cintron and his 1.6 million dollar contract. I'm not going to defend that move. The only rationale I can think of is that KW anticipates Crede leaving at the end of his contrace and wants a temporary solution at 3B. It's only March 11th - still plenty of time for KW to trade for an experienced middle reliever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 09:41 PM) But being a stud for many years in Japan certainly is. Much like Dick Allen, I was posting on this board before last season that we should be very concerned with Shingo. Japanese pitchers are notorious for losing their stuff in a flash due to the extreme amount of pitches they throw at an early age. Shingo was no spring chicken, and it was very possible he was going to flame out like he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 I just hope everyone who says the bullpen is fine as currently constructed, doesn't start complaining if it doesn't work out. I will be the first one to say I was wrong if the bullpen is strong this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:39 PM) His back might not be a problem, but his 82 MPH fastball is. 82? Unless I've missed something, it hasn't been that low. There's obviously a slight dip in his velocity at the moment. But he's been quoted as saying he's building himself back up. If his velocity isn't where it was last year in 3 weeks, I'd worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 01:42 PM) Japan and MLB are night and day. See Matsui, Kaz. See also Suzuki, Ichiro; Matsui, Hideki; Iguchi, Tadahito Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:44 PM) I'm not going to defend that move. The only rationale I can think of is that KW anticipates Crede leaving at the end of his contrace and wants a temporary solution at 3B. It's only March 11th - still plenty of time for KW to trade for an experienced middle reliever. Crede has this season and next under White Sox control I believe. I don't think there is a chance in hell KW acquired Cintron in anticipation of Crede's departure. Perhaps as insurance for his back, I'll give you that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 01:45 PM) See also Suzuki, Ichiro; Matsui, Hideki; Iguchi, Tadahito Just like any other population of players...you can find both success stories and failures. Anyone remember Hideki Irabu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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