Second lefty update

[Jordan4life_2007]

His performance is just a sign of things to come. He blows chunks just like all the other lefty candidates.

 

Will see.

[RME JICO]

Updated stats with some of the remaining 11th candidates thrown in:

                                   IP   H   R  ER  BB  SO  HR   ERA    WHIP

 P Reynoso                          4   2   0   0   3   3   0    0.00  1.25

 T Redding                      3 1/3   7   2   2   1   2   1    5.40  2.40

 J Lopez                            6   8   4   4   1   7   0    6.00  1.50

 S Tracey                           4   8   3   3   2   2   0    6.75  2.50

 A Almanza                      3 1/3   6   5   5   1   3   0   13.50  2.10

[beck72]

His performance is just a sign of things to come. He blows chunks just like all the other lefty candidates.

 

Lopez' stuff doesn't impress me. He's Kelly Wunsch-lite. Lopez doesn't seem to have a pitch that can get hitters out

[GoodAsGould]

maybe Ryan Sweeney can make the team be the 4th OF and the 2nd Lefty out of the pen

[RME JICO]

Lopez' stuff doesn't impress me. He's Kelly Wunsch-lite. Lopez doesn't seem to have a pitch that can get hitters out

Except for the one that has struck out 7 batters in 6 innings. Other than the last outing he has been pretty decent. If he can rebound from the bad outing and throw a couple of decent innings, he will probably win the job.

 

In reality, how many innings is the 2nd Lefty going to see in the regular season? maybe 40? Last year Cotts pitched 60 and Marte pitched 45. Marte had an ERA of 3.77, WHIP of 1.72, K Ratio of 1.6. Lopez should be able to do at least that good.

[Felix]

Lopez' stuff doesn't impress me. He's Kelly Wunsch-lite. Lopez doesn't seem to have a pitch that can get hitters out

The only pitcher with more strikeouts this spring is Jose Contreras, who has 12 in 10 innings. Lopez has 7 in 6 innings, while Mark Buehrle is third with 6 in 6 innings.

[RME JICO]

The only pitcher with more strikeouts this spring is Jose Contreras, who has 12 in 10 innings.  Lopez has 7 in 6 innings, while Mark Buehrle is third with 6 in 6 innings.

Also, he has had some pretty good control with a 7:1 K:BB ratio. Normally that is one of the best indicators on how well a pitcher is hitting the mark. The bad outing was not really related to bad pitching either:

 

Joey Cora, who served as manager in Ozzie Guillen's absence Friday, thought Lopez's final numbers were a bit misleading.

 

"He had a blooper and a seeing-eye single and a fly ball there," said Cora of Lopez. "He didn't pitch that bad. He struck out a couple of lefties. He threw strikes, that's the key. He walked a guy, but he was pitching a little bit around him. He didn't get hit hard at all. He just wasn't lucky."

Edited March 11, 2006 by RME JICO

[Chisoxfn]

Will see.

For pete sake the guy has a 6.09 ERA in his major league career (171 games). Last year he was away from Coors and he was even worse with a 9.42 ERA in 29 games.

 

This guy is HORRID. Kevin Walker is inifintely better than some of these bums that this team is giving a shot. I fear for this cause Ozzie tends to use guys in big situations, regardless of who they are, and these guys will BLOW games left and right.

[Chisoxfn]

Except for the one that has struck out 7 batters in 6 innings.  Other than the last outing he has been pretty decent.  If he can rebound from the bad outing and throw a couple of decent innings, he will probably win the job.

 

In reality, how many innings is the 2nd Lefty going to see in the regular season?  maybe 40?  Last year Cotts pitched 60 and Marte pitched 45.  Marte had an ERA of 3.77, WHIP of 1.72, K Ratio of 1.6.  Lopez should be able to do at least that good.

What makes you guys think Lopez can even approach an ERA in the 3's. This guy has been HORRID in the majors (over a long course of action). See the stats I just posted. You don't suck that bad over a course of 3 years by accident.

[Dick Allen]

For pete sake the guy has a 6.09 ERA in his major league career (171 games).  Last year he was away from Coors and he was even worse with a 9.42 ERA in 29 games.

 

This guy is HORRID.  Kevin Walker is inifintely better than some of these bums that this team is giving a shot.  I fear for this cause Ozzie tends to use guys in big situations, regardless of who they are, and these guys will BLOW games left and right.

Exactly, and FWIW, Walker was lights out for 6 spring training appearances before being hit around. He only allowed 2 hits in his first 7+ innings last spring. Lopez sucks. If the White Sox have to rely on him getting key outs this season, Everett and Thomas will be right.

[jphat007]

Exactly, and FWIW, Walker was lights out for 6 spring training appearances before being hit around. He only allowed 2 hits in his first 7+ innings last spring.  Lopez sucks. If the White Sox have to rely on him getting key outs this season, Everett and Thomas will be right.

 

LOL. Most other teams in the league have A LOT more problems than who they have as their last person out of the pen. This is just a guy who will have to pitch when we need to get a lefty out in the 5th, 6th, or 7th inning. A guy like that will NOT have an impact on whether we repeat or not. If we don't go back to the playoffs the reason won't be because our second lefty sucks. All the guy has to do is get out an occasional left hander.

[RME JICO]

What makes you guys think Lopez can even approach an ERA in the 3's. This guy has been HORRID in the majors (over a long course of action).  See the stats I just posted.  You don't suck that bad over a course of 3 years by accident.

Guys can turn it around. If you are just going to use previous stats, then what about Cotts, Politte, and Hermanson prior to 2005?

 

Cotts 2004 - 5.65 ERA, 1.39 WHIP

Cotts 2003 - 8.10 ERA, 2.40 WHIP

 

Politte 2004 - 4.38 ERA, 1.44 WHIP

Politte 2003 - 5.66 ERA. 1.39 WHIP

 

Hermanson 2004 - 5.66 ERA, 1.39 WHIP

Hermanson 2003 - 4.06 ERA, 1.36 WHIP

 

I wouldn't call any of those blockbuster stats. Lopez had a horrible 2005, but he only pitched 16 innings. Before that:

 

Javier Lopez 2004 - 7.52 ERA, 1.74 WHIP

Javier Lopez 2003 - 3.70 ERA, 1.20 WHIP

 

Lopez actually had a good year in 2003 for playing in Coors, he had 58.3 IP, 40 Ks, and only 12 BB's. So if he can return to something like that he will be a good replacement for Marte.

[Felix]

Guys can turn it around.  If you are just going to use previous stats, then what about Cotts, Politte, and Hermanson prior to 2005?

And thats exactly why some people are worried about Cotts, Politte and Hermanson, and think that Kenny should trade for some real bullpen help.

[jphat007]

And thats exactly why some people are worried about Cotts, Politte and Hermanson, and think that Kenny should trade for some real bullpen help.

 

How do you know who "real" bullpen help is? How do you know those people won't regress either? THat's just not the way you run a ballclub as I said in my other post. You can't run around trying to predict what will happen next year. You have to go with those that had GOOD years last year and hope that they can hang on.

[fathom]

You have to go with those that had GOOD years last year and hope that they can hang on.

 

And that's why many baseball experts believe you should never pay top money for a bullpen guy. The position is just so inconsistent year from year. I agree with some of the other posters that potentially our main weakness is the bullpen.

[ScottyDo]

The race tightens as Reynoso throws 2 scoreless innings:

 

Updated Stats:

                                  IP   H   R  ER  BB  SO  HR   ERA    WHIP

J Lopez                            5   4   0   0   0   5   0    0.00  0.80

P Reynoso                          4   2   0   0   3   3   0    0.00  1.25

A Almanza (0-2)                3 1/3   6   5   5   1   3   0   13.50  2.10

 

mmm, tasty WHIP....

[Felix]

How do you know who "real" bullpen help is? How do you know those people won't regress either? THat's just not the way you run a ballclub as I said in my other post. You can't run around trying to predict what will happen next year. You have to go with those that had GOOD years last year and hope that they can hang on.

You would make a horrible GM. Nothing more is really needed to be said.

 

Then again, lets say it anyway. There are things called fluke years. These types of years lead players, such as Adrian Beltre, into getting a big fat undeserved paycheck. To avoid relying on players who have only ever had 1 good year in their career, the smartest thing for a GM to do is to go after players who seem to be more reliable, and repeat their performances year in and out. If you were getting a reliever, would you get Hector Carrasco or Joe Nathan? Last year, Carrasco had a 2.04 ERA in 88.1 innings pitched while Nathan had a 2.70 ERA in 70.0 innings. Does this mean Carrasco is the better bet to do better next year? No, because this was his second year ever with an ERA below 2 (his first being his rookie year) and his third (including the two years with an ERA under 2) with an ERA below 4. Nathan, on the other hand, has had three consecutive years with an ERA under 3, including one with an ERA under 2. He's the better bet to do better next year because he's been much more consistant (even though he struggled in his first two years) than Carrasco.

 

But, going by your logic, you would take Carrasco, because he had a better year last year.

[jphat007]

And that's why many baseball experts believe you should never pay top money for a bullpen guy.  The position is just so inconsistent year from year.  I agree with some of the other posters that potentially our main weakness is the bullpen.

 

Sure it is. Because bullpen results are so up and down. Which is why trading for bullpen help to replace one of our big four would be out fo the question. You would have to give up a lot to give up a lot to get them and then you wouldn't even be sure that they would put up better numbers than what you already have.

 

As KW has said, you go with what you've got until you see in the season that it is not working and then you go out and trade for what you need. But you can't try to guess and go out and make a preemptive move. That's just not how the business works, especially right off of a World Series. We improved on offense, on the bench, and in the starting staff, and that should offset any regression in the bullpen. And if it doesn't, Kenny will go get us some help when he knows that is the situation. We don't know that right now. If the top 4 + Bmac are healthy, that is who you go with. Every team can worry about something, but some teams (us) get to worry a lot less than other teams.

 

And as he has said there is no point in giving up a bunch for a guy who only has to get an occasional lefty out.

[jphat007]

You would make a horrible GM.  Nothing more is really needed to be said.

 

Then again, lets say it anyway.  There are things called fluke years.  These types of years lead players, such as Adrian Beltre, into getting a big fat undeserved paycheck.  To avoid relying on players who have only ever had 1 good year in their career, the smartest thing for a GM to do is to go after players who seem to be more reliable, and repeat their performances year in and out.  If you were getting a reliever, would you get Hector Carrasco or Joe Nathan?  Last year, Carrasco had a 2.04 ERA in 88.1 innings pitched while Nathan had a 2.70 ERA in 70.0 innings.  Does this mean Carrasco is the better bet to do better next year?  No, because this was his second year ever with an ERA below 2 (his first being his rookie year) and his third (including the two years with an ERA under 2) with an ERA below 4.  Nathan, on the other hand, has had three consecutive years with an ERA under 3, including one with an ERA under 2.  He's the better bet to do better next year because he's been much more consistant (even though he struggled in his first two years) than Carrasco.

 

But, going by your logic, you would take Carrasco, because he had a better year last year.

 

Wow. It's like you haven't even read any of my posts. I'm advocating doing exactly what KW is doing. Staying with the guys we had last year beacuse they got the job done for us. You picked out a situation that has no bearing on anything. It doesn't apply. If Carassco was Politte last year, you wouldn't go out and trade for Nathan. You couldn't. It wouldn't be cost effective. You would stay with Carassco. If you could just pick between the two, who wouldn't pick Nathan, but I'm sorry, that's not how MLB works. What a terrible situation to bring up. That has nothing to do with our situation.

 

LOL. I guess you think KW would make a horrible GM?

 

PS. Thank goodness you aren't running our team.

Edited March 11, 2006 by jphat007

[Felix]

Wow. It's like you haven't even read any of my posts. I'm advocating doing exactly what KW is doing. Staying with the guys we had last year beacuse they got the job done for us. You picked out a situation that has no bearing on anything. It doesn't apply.

 

LOL. I guess you think KW would make a horrible GM? 

I was replying to this post which makes you sound as if you would take a player who had the better last year over the player who is more consistant, but not as good as the other pitcher who has only ever had 1 good year.

 

I wasn't replying to any other post you've made, just that one.

 

 

Would you take Hector Carrasco or Joe Nathan? How about Hector Carrasco or Brad Lidge?

Edited March 11, 2006 by Felix

[jphat007]

And why not? I want my GM to have my team as prepared as possible, and if that means going out and getting more help, than so be it.

 

I think Sox fans have a right to be concerned about the pen. Its the 2nd week of spring, and already Hermanson has back pains, AGAIN. This is a guy that ate 60 important innings for us last season.

 

We then have Cliff, whos career ERA is twice the ERA he put up in 05. I am really big Pollite fan, and loved the signing back in 04. However, even im not sure he can match that 2.00 ERA he posted.

 

Cotts im not really concerned about. He really has had no injury problems, and while obviously 2005 was a HUGE year from him, alot of people predicted Cotts being a solid pitcher as time went on.

So what happens if Hermanson goes down? I doubt he is going to be 100% this season. Are we going to bring up Charlie Hagger? How about Rusty Tucker?

 

As a GM you have to cover all of your bases, and I think the bullpen could become a big problem this year. We need to be prepared.

 

Then you are screwed. KW improved the team as best as he could. You can't go out and fix every hole and every spot because you think that somebody in the bullpen might regress. That's just not the way it works for this team, and almost every other team in baseball. Sure, I'm sure KW would love to have Rivera and Krod and Rincon and etc, etc, but you can't. You have to hope guys can stay healthy and Cotts, Jenks, Politte, Bmac, Hermy stay healthy and are productive.

 

Now if Hermy gets hurt, then he can go try and acquire somebody that had his similar career stats, but even they are hard to find. Bullpen help is tough to find. KW has done a lot to improve the team but there is only so much you can do. Sometimes you have to sit back and hope. Anybody on this team can regress and anybody can get hurt. That's the way baseball works. YOu improve as best as you can and work from therre. If the bullpen struggles, we have to hope the other improvements offset it enough and have KW go out and get a Sullivan type player like 03. Really good, gaurenteed bullpen guys are TOUGH to get. They don't grow on trees and you have to pay a lot to get them. There is nobody out there right now that we could afford to get that would be gaurenteed to be better than what we have except maybe for the second lefty.

Edited March 11, 2006 by jphat007

[jphat007]

I was replying to this post which makes you sound as if you would take a player who had the better last year over the player who is more consistant, but not as good as the other pitcher who has only ever had 1 good year.

 

I wasn't replying to any other post you've made, just that one.

Would you take Hector Carrasco or Joe Nathan?  How about Hector Carrasco or Brad Lidge?

 

Sweet. When do we get to just pick and choose who we put in our bullpen? I want RIvera and KRod too. YES!

 

That is not revelant because this is not fantasy baseball. You don't get to just choose who you want.

[Felix]

Sweet. When do we get to just pick and choose who we put in our bullpen? I want RIvera and KRod too. YES!

 

That is not revelant because this is not fantasy baseball. You don't get to just choose who you want.

Thats not what I'm saying. If you were the GM of a team and needed bullpen help for this year, would you take Hector Carrasco or Joe Nathan?

 

Basically, who do you think will do better next year?

[Dick Allen]

How do you know who "real" bullpen help is? How do you know those people won't regress either? THat's just not the way you run a ballclub as I said in my other post. You can't run around trying to predict what will happen next year. You have to go with those that had GOOD years last year and hope that they can hang on.

A GM's job IS trying to predict how someone will do in the future, not base everything on last season.

[jphat007]

Thats not what I'm saying.  If you were the GM of a team and needed bullpen help for this year, would you take Hector Carrasco or Joe Nathan?

 

Basically, who do you think will do better next year?

 

Who wouldn't take Nathan. How is that relevant to anything we are talking about. It would be relevant if Minny would trade us Nathan straight up for Politte. Do you think they would do that?