Balta1701 Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 7, 2006 -> 01:19 PM) He was the best player of this generation pre-steriods. Assuming he started steriods in 1998, as per the "proof", he still would have 3 MVP's, 8 Gold Gloves, 7 All Star games, 7 silver sluggers, and 411 homers. No matter what comes out, I still refuse to accept this statement...if a guy is willing to cheat in 1998, why should I assume he wasn't willing to cheat before that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly8509CWS Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 QUOTE(longshot7 @ Mar 7, 2006 -> 04:27 PM) Who cares? I have no problem with performance-enhancing drugs. Especially since they weren't against mlb rules at the time. Use green next time... Oh, you're serious, how can you justify cheating? They may not have been banned by MLB, but they were banned by the US Government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 QUOTE(longshot7 @ Mar 7, 2006 -> 02:27 PM) Who cares? I have no problem with performance-enhancing drugs. Especially since they weren't against mlb rules at the time. Yes they were. There was not an adequate testing program in place in MLB, but they were banned by baseball in the early 90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 7, 2006 Author Share Posted March 7, 2006 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Mar 7, 2006 -> 04:26 PM) This sounds like a response noted Bonds apologist Michael Wilbon would say on PTI. You're limiting the scope of his steroid use, and its possible implications, by suggesting others did as well. Every baseball player referenced within the last paragraph aren't fit to stand within Bonds' shadow. How can you assert anything is "crystal clear" with determing explanations of why Bonds is singled out? Those reasons you listed (Ruth/Media) certaintly contribute to his exclusion, but he brought scrutiny upon himself. HE associated with employees of a company manufacturing chemical inhancements. HE testified in court to unknowingly spreading steroid cream over his shoulders. I'll agree Bonds will likely be a HOF. His numbers, as you've indicated, were tremendous before 1998--when his physical stature ballooned. Where I disagree with you is I don't believe he'll be voted in first ballot. Journalists, former players, etc. casting a vote for Bonds can't possibly ignore all implications. LMAO... apologist.. Alllrighty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 7, 2006 Author Share Posted March 7, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 7, 2006 -> 04:30 PM) No matter what comes out, I still refuse to accept this statement...if a guy is willing to cheat in 1998, why should I assume he wasn't willing to cheat before that? Take it up with the men that made the statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 7, 2006 -> 04:30 PM) No matter what comes out, I still refuse to accept this statement...if a guy is willing to cheat in 1998, why should I assume he wasn't willing to cheat before that? I agree with you it's difficult to accept Bonds didn't cheat before 1998. From the excerpt I read, he noteable physical growth was tied to the 1998 Sosa/McGwire race. But in his defense, there hasn't been any information released about steroid use before '98. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 7, 2006 -> 04:33 PM) LMAO... apologist.. Alllrighty. I don't know what else to politely call people who direct critcism from Bonds and rest it on "crystal clear" reasons for being singled out . None of which actually blame Bonds for his terrible attitude, note his stature as one of the greatest players in MLB, or mention mysterious connections to steroid distributers. I heard on The Score (and I"m not sure whether the SI article mentions it) Bonds left messages on a woman's answering machine where he says if the woman were to disappear, no one would know. During a previous encounter, he allegedly placed his hands around the woman's throat, pressed her head against a wall, and threatened her verbally. This man is not a creation of the media. Edited March 7, 2006 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Check out this photo timeline of Bonds: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedi....1.exclude.html It's pretty obvious. I really don't need evidence when my own eyes tell me the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Mar 7, 2006 -> 02:38 PM) I agree with you it's difficult to accept Bonds didn't cheat before 1998. From the excerpt I read, he noteable physical growth was tied to the 1998 Sosa/McGwire race. But in his defense, there hasn't been any information released about steroid use before '98. I've said th is for a while about Bonds...there are plenty of steroids out there which can give you an advantage without turning you into a muscle-bound freak. The change in his body after 1999 could have been from switching to a new, more intense steroid just as easily as it could have been from starting them in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) It's a shame that Barry even began using. He was a lock for Cooperstown prior to that. It's even more of a shame that Barry's a jerk and a racist, so I'm glad that he's being exposed as a heavy steroid-user now as well. Rot in scandal hell, Barry. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Edited March 7, 2006 by WCSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Very intersting indeed. So he was poppin as many as 20 at a time? Good jesus! The actual book comes out on March 27th. I'm definitely gonna pick that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Mar 7, 2006 -> 05:12 PM) It's a shame that Barry even began using. He was a lock for Cooperstown prior to that. That, to me, is the difference between Bonds and somebody like Sammy Sosa. I think Sosa literally needed to cheat to be good. Bonds was already good. It's a shame that his career will be forever tarnished. And I know everybody hates Bonds. He's an asshole, jerk, ect. But as a true fan of the game, I think this is sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 7, 2006 -> 04:55 PM) Check out this photo timeline of Bonds: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedi....1.exclude.html It's pretty obvious. I really don't need evidence when my own eyes tell me the truth. I could get that big if I wanted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 7, 2006 -> 04:30 PM) No matter what comes out, I still refuse to accept this statement...if a guy is willing to cheat in 1998, why should I assume he wasn't willing to cheat before that? Maybe the Sosa/McGwire phenomenon of 1998 triggered it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Mar 7, 2006 -> 04:08 PM) That, to me, is the difference between Bonds and somebody like Sammy Sosa. I think Sosa literally needed to cheat to be good. Bonds was already good. It's a shame that his career will be forever tarnished. And I know everybody hates Bonds. He's an asshole, jerk, ect. But as a true fan of the game, I think this is sad. I agree completely. Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Mar 7, 2006 -> 04:15 PM) Maybe the Sosa/McGwire phenomenon of 1998 triggered it? Maybe wanting to reach the big leagues in the mid-1980's triggered it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Mar 7, 2006 -> 06:15 PM) Maybe the Sosa/McGwire phenomenon of 1998 triggered it? That's what the article says. That the silly bastard got "jealous." He should be banned from the Game and banned from the Hall. If Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe, men with equally great skills in some respects and who are equally if not more deserving than he is, can't be put into the Hall for doing less than he did, then he shouldn't be in, either, and he ought to be banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Mar 7, 2006 -> 04:47 PM) I don't know what else to politely call people who direct critcism from Bonds and rest it on "crystal clear" reasons for being singled out . None of which actually blame Bonds for his terrible attitude, note his stature as one of the greatest players in MLB, or mention mysterious connections to steroid distributers. I heard on The Score (and I"m not sure whether the SI article mentions it) Bonds left messages on a woman's answering machine where he says if the woman were to disappear, no one would know. During a previous encounter, he allegedly placed his hands around the woman's throat, pressed her head against a wall, and threatened her verbally. This man is not a creation of the media. First, I did no such thing as direct anything away from him. Pointing out that others have done the same thing - proven or not at this point - and them not being gone after like rabid dogs is valid, IMO. It happens all the time. Was Jordan called out for his gambling or womanizing...? Even after his father was murdered the press still refused to comment on what everyone else knew. Did Cal Ripkin get s*** when he assulted his wife...? And even a bit closer to home.. Sosa... even after the cork was there for all to see barely a negative word was spoken until Grace opened his mouth about what a asshole he was. And then there's the darling McGwire... Even after that asshole sat in front of congress and s*** on that poor man who's son KILLED HIMSELF from using Andro and other roids - just like his "hero" Mark... the press still barely made a peep. Why... because they were nice to the press. If Bonds was a media darling you honestly think these two guys would have spent hour after hour, day after day, week after week, etc, etc... digging up as much dirt as they could...? I'm not blaming anyone but Bonds. If you interpreted differently, you misunderstood. I'm laughing at the witch hunt - which absolutely positively NEEDS to come out - the use of steroids - but the way that it was done is hysterical. And all the people calling for his demise... it's funny. I wonder how they would react if it were their "guy" on their "team". :rolly And you can bet high it's not far off... As for him hitting his girlfriend.. I'm sure he did it - as she's testified to the fact. And it reminds me of a story when a warm and fuzzy to the media guy did something similar and didn't get reported on... You may have heard of him... Sammy Sosa. Nearly KILLED his wife with a rum bottle. And BTW, I wasn't comparing Dykstra, Daulton, Williams, etc, to Bonds.. just making a comment that steriod use has been obvious for a long time. Yet because now they have a jerk personality to nail, they go all out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Mar 7, 2006 -> 05:12 PM) It's a shame that Barry even began using. He was a lock for Cooperstown prior to that. It's even more of a shame that Barry's a jerk and a racist, so I'm glad that he's being exposed as a heavy steroid-user now as well. Rot in scandal hell, Barry. You have nobody to blame but yourself. This pretty much proves my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 7, 2006 -> 07:25 PM) Maybe wanting to reach the big leagues in the mid-1980's triggered it? You could say that about anybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank the Tank 35 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I think a lot of it has to do with his proximity to being called "the greatest player ever." To have the supposed best player ever in America's sport be a hard-core juicer and a cheater... I'd have to think that that wouldn't sit well with most people. I agree he could have helped his cause by not being a prick though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxhawks Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 i know bonds took roids, and i still hope he breaks ruth's record Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 i know bonds took roids, and i still hope he breaks ruth's record <{POST_SNAPBACK}> :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Brilliant piece by Buster Olney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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