Soprano's Sunday...

[tonyho7476]

I did also. And I think they did it well, for those that pay attention anyway. Charmaine on the other end of the phone as Tony's wife was a pretty cool tie in to the past.

 

And don't worry, he'll be back soon. But in the mean time things look to get explosive. 

 

I was trying ot figure out who he was talking to....It was Charmaine. Interesting. I liked the episode. I think the coming weeks are going to be awesome.

[afacio]

I was trying ot figure out who he was talking to....It was Charmaine.  Interesting.  I liked the episode.  I think the coming weeks are going to be awesome.

 

Just an FYI

From an article in the Star Ledger (jersey)

 

The voice of Purgatory Tony's wife wasn't played by Annabella Sciorra, or any other actress who's been on the show before; she's just a generic non-Carmela female voice.

[RibbieRubarb]

This episode had A LOT going on in it, so bear with me as I try to express what I noticed:

 

Tony is in purgatory.

He was literally in the "Hotel California"

He was without an identity and unable to leave.

The hotel he can check into was the "Omni"...meaning ALL.

While he is stuck in that hotel, on one end of town is a shining beacon (Heaven), on the other, a raging forest fire (Hell).

 

Now let's dig WAAAY deeper into symbolism:

He is also apparently in the military contractor business, so it can be argued that he's still involved with death and murder. Also, he is still capable of cheating on his wife. I think the writers are showing the point that in the end, sin is sin, and once you get to the end it doesn't matter if you make your decisions in a boardroom or the back of a stripclub. I guess it's some social commentary.

 

In Dante Inferno, it is said there are 7 layers or circles of Hell that Dante traveled through to get to paradise.

 

Tony was placed on the 7th floor(or circle)... the circle for those who are violent

 

He's sinking further and further into the depths. Trying to get back by taking the stairs and leaving the 7th floor (circle, soul)

 

He fell down the stairs between the 5th and 4th floor. The 5th circle is wrath and 4th is greed

 

Also, if you recall the first episode opened with William Burroughs spoken word recording "Seven Souls"

 

From the Seven Souls...Number five is Ka, the Double, most closely associated with the subject.

 

The 1st circle is limbo and from there he can escape, when he stop acepting his fate and fights back and finds his breifcase.

 

His double who took his breifcase, or as Tony out it "My whole LIFE is in there"

That guy's name was Kevin Finnerty, to which the man at the bar jokes "Kev-Infinity"

 

By the way Kevin Finnerty is a heating salesman from the hottest state, Arizona. No need to go further there. Arizona is also on the Driver's License as AZ or a-z, the beginning to the end.

 

Dante's divine comedy is divided into three parts, corresponding with Dante's three journeys: Inferno, or "Hell"; Purgatorio, or "Purgatory"; and Paradiso, or "Paradise."

 

Consider that Tony is now in the second of the three journeys -- his life on earth has been Dante's hell and all it is comprised of (the seven circles of hell: Circle One, Those in limbo; Circle Two - The lustful; Circle Three, The gluttonous; Circle Four - The hoarders;

Circle Five - The wrathful; Circle Six - The heretics

Circle Seven - The violent), he is now in purgatory, and is making his final journey to Paradiso.

 

On Easter Sunday, Dante emerges from Hell. Through his travels, he has found his way to God and is able, once more, to look upon the stars.

Perhaps this is Tony's path.

Sunday April 16?

[Controlled Chaos]

Anybody else think AJ is on his way in to the family business???

 

Ribbie, those are some pretty interesting observations....

[jackie hayes]

Nice. 9 circles in Dante's hell, though.

 

Edit: Okay, but, 7 levels of Purgatory. Wikipedia tells me they go 1. Pride, 2. Envy, 3. Wrath, 4. Sloth, 5. Avarice, 6. Gluttony, 7. Lust.

 

I've never read Purgatorio, so any good Dante-ists want to weigh in?

Edited March 20, 2006 by jackie hayes

[RibbieRubarb]

Nice.  9 circles in Dante's hell, though.

 

Edit:  Okay, but, 7 levels of Purgatory.  Wikipedia tells me they go 1. Pride, 2. Envy, 3. Wrath, 4. Sloth, 5. Avarice, 6. Gluttony, 7. Lust.

 

I've never read Purgatorio, so any good Dante-ists want to weigh in?

 

You're right 9 circles. But the 7th circle is still for the violent, like Tony.

[jackie hayes]

You're right 9 circles. But the 7th circle is still for the violent, like Tony.

Yup, I'm just wondering how this can really be considered something like hell. Tony's hanging between life and death, and in the dream he's waiting for some resolution, which both seem a lot more like purgatory.

 

But there are some interesting similarities, definitely. What you mentioned...the opening line of Inferno, 'In the middle of life's journey' (or something like that), and Tony's insistence, 'I'm only 46!'...and the idea that this show, with the tension between Italian and American identity, would throw together Tom Petty and Dante isn't surprising.

 

It'll be interesting to see if there's anyone 'guiding' Tony in some sense. Btw, what does Junior yell when he shoots Tony (from the first episode)?

[RibbieRubarb]

Yup, I'm just wondering how this can really be considered something like hell.  Tony's hanging between life and death, and in the dream he's waiting for some resolution, which both seem a lot more like purgatory.

 

But there are some interesting similarities, definitely.  What you mentioned...the opening line of Inferno, 'In the middle of life's journey' (or something like that), and Tony's insistence, 'I'm only 46!'...and the idea that this show, with the tension between Italian and American identity, would throw together Tom Petty and Dante isn't surprising.

 

It'll be interesting to see if there's anyone 'guiding' Tony in some sense.  Btw, what does Junior yell when he shoots Tony (from the first episode)?

 

It does seem like a combination of Dante's Hell and Purgatory.

I strongly believe it is a form of purgatory. But there are elements of Dante's Hell, also.

BTW

The first episode of the season was called "Member's only"...

This one is called "Join the Club"

 

Also, outside the literary references, I enjoyed AJ yelling "Poor You!" at Meadow.

It seems Livia's presence is never too far from the Soprano household.

Edited March 20, 2006 by RibbieRubarb

[Steff]

Just an FYI

From an article in the Star Ledger (jersey)

 

The voice of Purgatory Tony's wife wasn't played by Annabella Sciorra, or any other actress who's been on the show before; she's just a generic non-Carmela female voice.

 

 

 

Don't know who played it, but it was clear who it was intended to be when he said "Char..." during the call.

Excellent tie in. Though I wish they would have had him comment on kids.

[Steff]

This episode had A LOT going on in it, so bear with me as I try to express what I noticed:

 

Tony is in purgatory.

He was literally in the "Hotel California"

He was without an identity and unable to leave.

The hotel he can check into was the "Omni"...meaning ALL.

While he is stuck in that hotel, on one end of town is a shining beacon (Heaven), on the other, a raging forest fire (Hell).

 

Now let's dig WAAAY deeper into symbolism:

He is also apparently in the military contractor business, so it can be argued that he's still involved with death and murder. Also, he is still capable of cheating on his wife. I think the writers are showing the point that in the end, sin is sin, and once you get to the end it doesn't matter if you make your decisions in a boardroom or the back of a stripclub. I guess it's some social commentary.

 

In Dante Inferno, it is said there are 7 layers or circles of Hell that Dante traveled through to get to paradise.

 

Tony was placed on the 7th floor(or circle)... the circle for those who are violent

 

He's sinking further and further into the depths. Trying to get back by taking the stairs and leaving the 7th floor (circle, soul)

 

He fell down the stairs between the 5th and 4th floor. The 5th circle is wrath and 4th is greed

 

Also, if you recall the first episode opened with William Burroughs spoken word recording "Seven Souls"

 

From the Seven Souls...Number five is Ka, the Double, most closely associated with the subject.

 

The 1st circle is limbo and from there he can escape, when he stop acepting his fate and fights back and finds his breifcase.

 

His double who took his breifcase, or as Tony out it "My whole LIFE is in there"

That guy's name was Kevin Finnerty, to which the man at the bar jokes "Kev-Infinity"

 

By the way Kevin Finnerty is a heating salesman from the hottest state, Arizona. No need to go further there. Arizona is also on the Driver's License as AZ or a-z, the beginning to the end.

 

Dante's divine comedy is divided into three parts, corresponding with Dante's three journeys: Inferno, or "Hell"; Purgatorio, or "Purgatory"; and Paradiso, or "Paradise."

 

Consider that Tony is now in the second of the three journeys -- his life on earth has been Dante's hell and all it is comprised of (the seven circles of hell: Circle One, Those in limbo; Circle Two - The lustful; Circle Three, The gluttonous; Circle Four - The hoarders;

Circle Five - The wrathful; Circle Six - The heretics

Circle Seven - The violent), he is now in purgatory, and is making his final journey to Paradiso.

 

On Easter Sunday, Dante emerges from Hell. Through his travels, he has found his way to God and is able, once more, to look upon the stars.

Perhaps this is Tony's path.

Sunday April 16?

 

 

Weird-o.

[RibbieRubarb]

Don't know who played it, but it was clear who it was intended to be when he said "Char..." during the call.

Excellent tie in. Though I wish they would have had him comment on kids.

 

Stop interrupting our pseudo-intellectual discussion with that nonsense.

[Steff]

It does seem like a combination of Dante's Hell and Purgatory.

I strongly believe it is a form of purgatory. But there are elements of Dante's Hell, also.

BTW

The first episode of the season was called "Member's only"...

This one is called "Join the Club"

 

Also, outside the literary references, I enjoyed AJ yelling "Poor You!" at Meadow.

It seems Livia's presence is never too far from the Soprano household.

 

 

Jim and I absolutely LOVED this. I keep hoping they find some way to bring her back into the mix, obviously in flash backs only. The way she made Tony shrivel up was amazing.

[Steff]

Stop interrupting our pseudo-intellectual discussion with that nonsense.

 

 

Pffttt... I don't have time for that psycho babble bulls***.

 

[jackie hayes]

One challenge to the Dante 7th circle theory -- he's registered as Finnerty, who defrauded the monks. It also makes Tony himself an imposter. That would be the 8th circle.

 

Once you've started on the psycho babble, may as well go all out, right?

[Steff]

One challenge to the Dante 7th circle theory -- he's registered as Finnerty, who defrauded the monks.  It also makes Tony himself an imposter.  That would be the 8th circle.

 

Once you've started on the psycho babble, may as well go all out, right?

 

 

 

I think Ribbie assured that.

[RibbieRubarb]

One challenge to the Dante 7th circle theory -- he's registered as Finnerty, who defrauded the monks.  It also makes Tony himself an imposter.  That would be the 8th circle.

 

Once you've started on the psycho babble, may as well go all out, right?

 

All we need is a dancing dwarf and we can call it Twin Peaks!

[southsider2k5]

Good stuff Ribbie, we all know you aren't that smart, so who did you copy it from?

 

In all seriousness, I enjoyed the episode, because I got some of the symbolism, but after that literature lesson, I LOVED that episode. It was so well written.

[KipWellsFan]

So, what did we all think of this week?

 

I enjoyed it, but nothing to big. Looks like next week Tony will be back in full force.

 

Enjoyed it, but I think Tony will still be in the hospital for at least one more episode.

[Brian]

Was that suppose to be Tony's mom at the front door of that house? I mean we didn't see her face obviously.

Paulie was top notch last night. He does a great job delivering lines for comedy, even when it shouldn't be funny. "Woah, the ladies room is next door!"

[Steff]

Looking forward to Ribbie's analysis...

[RibbieRubarb]

Looking forward to Ribbie's analysis...

 

Alright class, settle down and we'll get started...

 

Tony was not having a dream, this was not a dream sequence. It was cogent and fluid, not choppy and random like the normal dreams on the show. Tony was in purgatory, or limbo. Tony stays on the 7th floor in an allusion to dante's seven levels of purgatory. This all traces back to the previous episode. The name Kevin Finnerty is an obvious allusion to in-finity. While in the hotel, you see the fires blazing in the woods (hell) and the shining beacon on the opposite side (heaven). When tony says that "it seems like a nice place to live", the bartender responds, "its dead around here", all pointing to the fact that he is in purgatory.

 

Onto this episode:

The monks represented the doctors, and their "heating problems" were the doctors problems controlling Tony's temperature. When tony finds out that he has alzheimers, it signifies eternal damnation. Tony should have died (lost his life). "My whole life was in that briefcase" (referring to the briefcase he lost). He was given a second briefcase (a second chance to live), which he refused to give up when told he needed to leave it behind in order to go to the house where "everyone was waiting". The major question remains: Was the house Heaven or Hell? Though it was near the beacon of light, it was not the beacon itself. That I think is important. It was the alluring nature of Hell, with the same mysterious woman in the doorway that was in Tony's "contractor dream" a couple season's back.

The existential angle being played is just the tip of the iceberg in regards to the rampant symbolism in these last two episodes. Add to it the brilliant acting of Edie Falco and the power struggle occuring in "real life" and the show is actually reaching artistic levels well-above those of any other show on TV.

 

My favorite piece if symbolism was not in Tony's mind but in the hospital involving Silvio.

 

In the bathroom, you first see that he cannot handle the pressure of being in charge. It was ironic that this occured when he was on his "throne" making decisions.

 

Finally...was there any signicigance to the tress and woods calling Tony back to Earth? Besides the obvious "Meadow" pararells..

 

"IN the midway of this our mortal life,

I found me in a gloomy wood, astray

Gone from the path direct"

 

Canto 1

Dante's Inferno

[Controlled Chaos]

Alright class, settle down and we'll get started...

 

Tony was not having a dream, this was not a dream sequence. It was cogent and fluid, not choppy and random like the normal dreams on the show. Tony was in purgatory, or limbo. Tony stays on the 7th floor in an allusion to dante's seven levels of purgatory. This all traces back to the previous episode. The name Kevin Finnerty is an obvious allusion to in-finity. While in the hotel, you see the fires blazing in the woods (hell) and the shining beacon on the opposite side (heaven). When tony says that "it seems like a nice place to live", the bartender responds, "its dead around here", all pointing to the fact that he is in purgatory.

 

Onto this episode:

The monks represented the doctors, and their "heating problems" were the doctors problems controlling Tony's temperature. When tony finds out that he has alzheimers, it signifies eternal damnation. Tony should have died (lost his life). "My whole life was in that briefcase" (referring to the briefcase he lost). He was given a second briefcase (a second chance to live), which he refused to give up when told he needed to leave it behind in order to go to the house where "everyone was waiting". The major question remains: Was the house Heaven or Hell? Though it was near the beacon of light, it was not the beacon itself. That I think is important. It was the alluring nature of Hell, with the same mysterious woman in the doorway that was in Tony's "contractor dream" a couple season's back.

The existential angle being played is just the tip of the iceberg in regards to the rampant symbolism in these last two episodes. Add to it the brilliant acting of Edie Falco and the power struggle occuring in "real life" and the show is actually reaching artistic levels well-above those of any other show on TV.

 

My favorite piece if symbolism was not in Tony's mind but in the hospital involving Silvio.

 

In the bathroom, you first see that he cannot handle the pressure of being in charge. It was ironic that this occured when he was on his "throne" making decisions.

Finally...was there any signicigance to the tress and woods calling Tony back to Earth? Besides the obvious "Meadow" pararells..

 

"IN the midway of this our mortal life,

I found me in a gloomy wood, astray

 

Gone from the path direct"

 

Canto 1

Dante's Inferno

 

 

I just think he couldn't handle the pressure of taking a s*** when people kept talking to him.

 

Seriously though...what was the symbolism of that part??

 

Good analysis!!!

[Chisoxfn]

Last nights episode was pretty darn good and it looks like next weeks will be too. Seems like Tony will be back in power.

 

Edie Falco has been amazing thus far.

[RibbieRubarb]

I just think he couldn't handle the pressure of taking a s*** when people kept talking to him.

 

Seriously though...what was the symbolism of that part??

 

Good analysis!!!

 

It was a funny piece of sybolism.

The frustrated "king" sitting on his "throne", albeit a porcelain one.

[bmags]

speaking of seventh grade symbolism