Dubai Ports selling out

[BigSqwert]

Look, I'm not saying I'm for this deal, but why is it automatically assumed the worst thing possible every time the President does something? 

Please read previous 11 pages in thread for an explanation. You will find plenty of reasons why people are questioning this.

[Balta1701]

Look, I'm not saying I'm for this deal, but why is it automatically assumed the worst thing possible every time the President does something?  That's the part I don't get.  What if there are more reasons then what's being said?  What if these guys were going to help us set up some ways to monitor middle east shipments, etc better?  What then?  But of course, there would never be any mention of those things.

Then in that case, he should have no problem calling up Bill Frist and Dennis Hastert and saying "We have this extra deal in place to make sure x happens. Don't tell people what the deal is, but say we talked and you were mollified." Thus far, even Frist and Hastert don't support the thing.

 

Or, alternatively, the President could easily order the legally mandated National Security investigation (it's well within his ability to still do so). The investigation would then take a look at any secret clauses on the deal and determine whether or not they justify the deal and actually work to improve U.S. security.

 

Neither of those has happened, and they're both logical recourses if there was some other element to this.

[AbeFroman]

Well I am not an apologist for anyone I do not support this ports deal, I didn't support cuts to school loans and I most certainly do not support Domestic Spying which I think is a blatant violation of the 4th Amendment.

 

Alright, well I appreciate your opinions. I probably got a little more carried away then I should have. I apologize if I offended you... I truly don't mean any disrepsect; Its just sometimes I get upset with the general direction of our nation..

 

take care

[BigSqwert]

Alright, well I appreciate your opinions.  I probably got a little more carried away then I should have.  I apologize if I offended you... I truly don't mean any disrepsect; Its just sometimes I get upset with the general direction of our nation..

 

take care

A gentleman and a scholar.

[minors]

Alright, well I appreciate your opinions.  I probably got a little more carried away then I should have.  I apologize if I offended you... I truly don't mean any disrepsect; Its just sometimes I get upset with the general direction of our nation..

 

take care

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Were cool

[kapkomet]

Please read previous 11 pages in thread for an explanation.  You will find plenty of reasons why people are questioning this.

It's not just this issue. It's all of them... I agree that this one needs questioned, no doubt. But there's crap piling on before people even knew what they were talking about, as per usual.

Edited February 23, 2006 by kapkomet

[Balta1701]

Ok...as far as I can tell...NO part of this quote will be made up.

 

GWB: "This deal wouldn't go forward if we were concerned about the security for the United States of America."

 

Oops.

[Balta1701]

It's not just this issue.  It's all of them... I agree that this one needs questioned, no doubt.  But there's crap piling on before people even knew what they were talking about, as per usual.

If piling on this one forces nothing else but extra funds directed towards actually taking concrete steps to secure the U.S. ports...then I could care less if it tore the country apart for months. Next to our southern border, I think our ports are probably the single biggest vulnerability in this country right now.

[Balta1701]

Former Senator and Presidential Candidate Bob Dole has reportedly been hired as a lobbyist by the Dubai firm in question to try to push this deal through.

 

Mr. Dole's wife, you'll remember...is currently a sitting U.S. Senator. Roughly similar to the relationship which caught Tom Daschle quite a bit of flak.

[kapkomet]

If piling on this one forces nothing else but extra funds directed towards actually taking concrete steps to secure the U.S. ports...then I could care less if it tore the country apart for months.  Next to our southern border, I think our ports are probably the single biggest vulnerability in this country right now.

You're exactly right on this point.

[southsider2k5]

A couple of interesting quotes from James Jay Carafano from the Heritage Foundation.

 

http://www.americandaughter.com/index.html...r.com/index.php

 

Foreign companies already own most of the maritime infrastructure that sustains American trade — the ships, the containers, the material-handling equipment, and the facilities being sold to the Dubai company. It’s a little late now to start worrying about outsourcing seaborne trade, but congressional hearings could serve to clear the air….

 

What happens when one foreign-owned company sells a U.S. port service to another foreign-owned company. Not much. Virtually all the company employees at the ports are U.S. citizens. The Dubai firm is a holding company that will likely play no role in managing the U.S. facilities….

 

And

 

That the facilities at six U.S. ports will be foreign-owned is not significant. These facilities are already owned by a foreign company, the London-based Peninsular and Oriental Steam Company. Indeed, much of the maritime infrastructure (e.g., ships, containers, and facilitates) that supports U.S. seaborne trade and travel, which accounts for about 1/3 of U.S. GDP, is already foreign-owned. The globalization of maritime trade began decades ago, and this sale reflects the continuing globalization of a sector long-dominated by transnational firms.

 

Additionally, none of the infrastructure at these ports relates to military or national security facilities. The Defense Department controls the facilities that it uses to ship military goods.

 

http://www.heritage.org/Research/HomelandDefense/wm997.cfm

 

This From Dick Meyer at CBS.com

 

At the port of Los Angeles, 80 per cent of the terminals are operated by foreign companies. Chinese companies operate more than half the terminals. So why is this suddenly a threat? After all, political outcry managed to scupper the deal a few months ago in which a Chinese company was going to take over the Unocal oil company.

 

Remember the global economy? Internationally, 24 of the 25 largest companies that operate port terminals aren't American. That means just about every container that enters a U.S. port has come from a foreign-controlled facility.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/22/...in1335531.shtml

 

Looks like we sold out long ago, and to governments who are a lot less cooperative than the UAE.

[samclemens]

A couple of interesting quotes from James Jay Carafano from the Heritage Foundation.

 

http://www.americandaughter.com/index.html...r.com/index.php

And

http://www.heritage.org/Research/HomelandDefense/wm997.cfm

 

This From Dick Meyer at CBS.com

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/22/...in1335531.shtml

 

Looks like we sold out long ago, and to governments who are a lot less cooperative than the UAE.

 

this goes back to what kap said earlier. im seeing a lot of blind personal hate for the president, and not any reason why this deal should not go through that trumps the reasons for the way things are usually done (take the LA port referenced in kap's post i am responding to, for instance). people are just s***ting their pants about it right now because they have run out of things to b**** about, since cheney's hunting accident turned out to a worthless weapon to attack the presidents administration. i'm sure that in a week or so, the liberal media or george soros or a disgraced dan rather will bring up something else.

 

b****, b****, b****; but it looks like this deal is going through anyways. money talks louder than votes; it did BEFORE this administration, and it will afterwards, whether a republican or a democrat is in office.

 

if you are going to be outraged by this deal, then you should be pissed off that 99% of the s*** you have in your house is made in china, made in sweat shops. talk about selective issue-spotting. jesus.

[NorthSideSox72]

this goes back to what kap said earlier. im seeing a lot of blind personal hate for the president, and not any reason why this deal should not go through that trumps the reasons for the way things are usually done (take the LA port referenced in kap's post i am responding to, for instance). people are just s***ting their pants about it right now because they have run out of things to b**** about, since cheney's hunting accident turned out to a worthless weapon to attack the presidents administration. i'm  sure that in a week or so, the liberal media or george soros or a disgraced dan rather will bring up something else.

 

b****, b****, b****; but it looks like this deal is going through anyways. money talks louder than votes; it did BEFORE this administration, and it will afterwards, whether a republican or a democrat is in office.

 

if you are going to be outraged by this deal, then you should be pissed off that 99% of the s*** you have in your house is made in china, made in sweat shops. talk about selective issue-spotting. jesus.

 

Have you actually read the posts in this thread, or do you just read the first sentences and dismiss anyone upset at the deal? Because a number of people here have made specific, valid points of criticism, not just gotten upset because it was the UAE.

 

Why can't the right-wingers actually defend this action, or any other action by the administration? Why is it that every time someone points out a mistake he has (or may have) made, the right-wingers react by saying "all you do is b****"? You ask for substantive arguments - and they are all over this thread. And yet your post lacks that entirely.

 

And the idea that anyone, GOP, Dem or indie has run out of things to be upset about is a joke, right? This administration provides enough material weekly that even the moderates/indies on the board like me have a constant flow of things to complain about (with eyes wide open). If you doubt that, check the poll numbers.

[bmags]

Have you actually read the posts in this thread, or do you just read the first sentences and dismiss anyone upset at the deal?  Because a number of people here have made specific, valid points of criticism, not just gotten upset because it was the UAE.

 

Why can't the right-wingers actually defend this action, or any other action by the administration?  Why is it that every time someone points out a mistake he has (or may have) made, the right-wingers react by saying "all you do is b****"?  You ask for substantive arguments - and they are all over this thread.  And yet your post lacks that entirely.

 

And the idea that anyone, GOP, Dem or indie has run out of things to be upset about is a joke, right?  This administration provides enough material weekly that even the moderates/indies on the board like me have a constant flow of things to complain about (with eyes wide open).  If you doubt that, check the poll numbers.

b****, b****,b****

[kapkomet]

UAE agrees to slow down and "revisit" the sale...

[YASNY]

Have you actually read the posts in this thread, or do you just read the first sentences and dismiss anyone upset at the deal?  Because a number of people here have made specific, valid points of criticism, not just gotten upset because it was the UAE.

 

Why can't the right-wingers actually defend this action, or any other action by the administration?  Why is it that every time someone points out a mistake he has (or may have) made, the right-wingers react by saying "all you do is b****"?  You ask for substantive arguments - and they are all over this thread.  And yet your post lacks that entirely.

 

And the idea that anyone, GOP, Dem or indie has run out of things to be upset about is a joke, right?  This administration provides enough material weekly that even the moderates/indies on the board like me have a constant flow of things to complain about (with eyes wide open).  If you doubt that, check the poll numbers.

 

The are quite a few on the other side that come in here and all they do is Bush bash. You can take the time to post a substantiative arguement and they'll twist it, change the subject or ignore it. In fact, the whole Democrat agenda is to Bush bash. Why is it so hard to understand that when we see that garbage, day in day out, here and in the media, that we get fed up enough to respond to it with disdain?

 

Prime example was with the MSNBC polls posted and discussed here. I post one that shows a clear majority in favor of capital punishment and a liberal swarm dismiss it as irrelevent. The BigSquirt finds one that shows a vast majority are against this UAE deal, and all of a sudden it's revelent enough to post. Squirt's poll sat out there for hours without a hint of relevence questioning. Where were all those people that dismissed mine. Same type of poll, same source, yet no objections whatsoever until I mentioned the previous poll. That's the rules they play by. If it fits our agenda it's relevent, if not it isn't. And it happens over and over again around here.

 

I keep saying to these people that I could swung over to their side and some issues, but not when the main agenda is to bash Bush. That's all the Democrats have done since 2000 and they still haven't a clue as to why the Repblicans control the executive and legislative branches of government and well on their way to controlling the judicial branch. The Democratic party and their catering to the extreme left have no one to blame but themselves.

 

You asked. There's my answer.

Edited February 24, 2006 by YASNY

[Mplssoxfan]

Here's a link to a piece which is a pretty good argument in favor of the ports deal.

[Mplssoxfan]

From Iowahawk

 

 

BUSH INKS IRISH FIRM TO GUARD NATIONAL WHISKEY RESERVE

 

Washington DC - The Bush Administration today angrily defended its controversial approval of the Irish company Donnybrook Lads Ltd. to oversee security at the National Strategic Whiskey Reserve in Lynchburg, TN, vowing to veto a new House bill that would force the two-man firm to undergo federal breathalizer testing.

 

"During the rigorous 7 minute review process, both Seamus and Kevin gave us an express oral promise that they never touch the stuff," said White House Spokesman Scott McClelland. "Well, maybe just a wee nip at wakes, and on All Saints Day."

 

"Congressional postering on this issue plays into the worst anti-Irish stereotypes," added McClelland, who said that the security contract included a failsafe Designated Driver clause to keep the Irish firm away from sensitive whiskey truck keys.

 

"We can reassure the American people that all Strategic Whiskey Reserve transportation and driving duties will be handled by highly-skilled elderly Koreans," said McClelland.

 

 

 

 

 

There's other funny stuff there, too.

[southsider2k5]

if you are going to be outraged by this deal, then you should be pissed off that 99% of the s*** you have in your house is made in china, made in sweat shops. talk about selective issue-spotting. jesus.

 

After editing out the whining, there is one good point buried in here, and maybe a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while, but I want to expand on it...

 

WE as Americans who are the ones who made the foreign takeover of our own ports possible.

 

Our lust for cheaper and cooler consumables, without being willing to pay more for American made products, which support the American workers are what is making this possible. One number you never hear about is the trade deficit, and let me tell you, it keeps hitting new all-time records. And let me tell you also, that ain't the Presidents fault, its our fault. Its that new Honda in the driveway, Saudi gasoline in the tank, Mitsubishi plasma screen on the wall, Sony Playstation 2 hooked up to it, Indian rug the floor, house heated by natural gas from UAE, etc, etc.

 

Yes it is us who directly gives foreign investors the dollars to come back and buy up vital sectors of our marketplace. We can't have it both ways. We can't want cheaper and better products, while importing them at the expense of the American worker, all of the while expecting their to be $50,000 a year jobs for high school dropouts, all of the while not buying American products, and then not expecting all of the dollars from overseas not be reinvested. Its naive at best, completely ignorant at worst to think that companies would avoid trying to own the infastructure of the worlds largest economy, when it was that very same economy which made them rich in the first place!

[kapkomet]

After editing out the whining, there is one good point buried in here, and maybe a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while, but I want to expand on it...

 

WE as Americans who are the ones who made the foreign takeover of our own ports possible. 

 

Our lust for cheaper and cooler consumables, without being willing to pay more for American made products, which support the American workers are what is making this possible.  One number you never hear about is the trade deficit, and let me tell you, it keeps hitting new all-time records.  And let me tell you also, that ain't the Presidents fault, its our fault.  Its that new Honda in the driveway, Saudi gasoline in the tank, Mitsubishi plasma screen on the wall, Sony Playstation 2 hooked up to it, Indian rug the floor, house heated by natural gas from UAE, etc, etc.

 

Yes it is us who directly gives foreign investors the dollars to come back and buy up vital sectors of our marketplace.  We can't have it both ways.  We can't want cheaper and better products, while importing them at the expense of the American worker, all of the while expecting their to be $50,000 a year jobs for high school dropouts, all of the while not buying American products, and then not expecting all of the dollars from overseas not be reinvested.  Its naive at best, completely ignorant at worst to think that companies would avoid trying to own the infastructure of the worlds largest economy, when it was that very same economy which made them rich in the first place!

Bottom line, we Americans are greedy idiots who wants more money without working for it so we can buy all the cool s*** for as cheap as possible to impress one another. What a nice society. (notice no green).

[Rex Kickass]

I just finished "The World Is Flat" by Thomas Friedman. Interesting read, dealt with a lot of these issues.

[BigSqwert]

I just finished "The World Is Flat" by Thomas Friedman. Interesting read, dealt with a lot of these issues.

That one is next on my list. It's been sitting on a shelf for a few months. Haven't had time to start it.

[Steff]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060224/ap_on_...DMzBHNlYwM3MDM-

 

UAE Gave $100 Million for Katrina Relief

TED BRIDIS, Associated Press Writer

Fri Feb 24, 5:32 AM ET

 

 

WASHINGTON - The United Arab Emirates gave the Bush administration $100 million to help victims of Hurricane Katrina weeks before a state-owned company there sought U.S. approval for its ports deal.

 

 

Maybe one does have nothing to do with the others.. and I hope that's the case.. but it is amazing at the timing of when this stuff hits the fan.

[kapkomet]

The are quite a few on the other side that come in here and all they do is Bush bash.  You can take the time to post a substantiative arguement and they'll twist it, change the subject or ignore it.  In fact, the whole Democrat agenda is to Bush bash.  Why is it so hard to understand that when we see that garbage, day in day out, here and in the media, that we get fed up enough to respond to it with disdain?

 

Prime example was with the MSNBC polls posted and discussed here.  I post one that shows a clear majority in favor of capital punishment and a liberal swarm dismiss it as irrelevent.  The BigSquirt finds one that shows a vast majority are against this UAE deal, and all of a sudden it's revelent enough to post.  Squirt's poll sat out there for hours without a hint of relevence questioning.  Where were all those people that dismissed mine.  Same type of poll, same source, yet no objections whatsoever until I mentioned the previous poll.  That's the rules they play by.  If it fits our agenda it's relevent, if not it isn't.  And it happens over and over again around here. 

 

I keep saying to these people that I could swung over to their side and some issues, but not when the main agenda is to bash Bush.  That's all the Democrats have done since 2000 and they still haven't a clue as to why the Repblicans control the executive and legislative branches of government and well on their way to controlling the judicial branch.  The Democratic party and their catering to the extreme left have no one to blame but themselves.

 

You asked.  There's my answer.

 

YASNY, you raise some great points. But let me take it one step further. Let's go back to 1994. What was the "Contract with America?" I mean, really, what was it? It was a response to 1992 when Ross Perot scared the crap out of the 'politics as usual' crowd, and the "Contract with America" was a smoke and mirrors way to say "you don't need those third party people, WE can do it for you". That allowed for the two parties that exist today to gain a stanglehold on the system and shut out any chance for a really well planned third party candidacy. I think that has bred some 'hate' from both sides of the political spectrum because there's not as much room for 'centerism'. Each side must cater to the fringes of their party to get elected.

 

Furthermore, when you look at our government today, it's FULL of POLITICIANS. America today needs real STATESMEN, you know, the ones that will stand up and solve problems, not politicize every issue so that they get re-elected the next term. We need true representation, not beurocracy. Our government has really turned away from this and it's become politicians looking for opportunities on both sides of the aisle. What happens if the Democrats gain control of Congress this election? The real answer? Absolutely NOTHING. It will be all the same crap. What happens if the Democrats gain the White House in 2008? Absolutely NOTHING. It will be all the same crap. The issues will be different, but at the end of it all, nothing will change. And because of the cycle we're on, and the power structure in place, 15 years from now, if people are sick today of the Republicans and sweep them out of power, the Democrats will get swept out of power the same way.

 

It's all a bunch of whiney crap from both sides of the aisle. At the end of the day, though, it's a government of politicians, not a government for the people. That's why I'm ashamed of our American government today. The people have lost the power.

[southsider2k5]

I just finished "The World Is Flat" by Thomas Friedman. Interesting read, dealt with a lot of these issues.

 

Bring it with you next time you come to MC so that I can read it too