downtown protest

[southsider2k5]

How exactly are your tax dollars assisting families in other countries?   

 

Easy.

 

A very large amount of the money earned by undocumented workers gets sent home to their families in their countries of origin. Its why many people come here in the first place. At least with a guest worker program, these people pay into our tax system and contribute to the very programs that they want to be able to recieve. At this point that doesn't happen. Right now the dollars that should be going to help families in this country, are going out of the USA.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Easy. 

 

A very large amount of the money earned by undocumented workers gets sent home to their families in their countries of origin.  Its why many people come here in the first place.  At least with a guest worker program, these people pay into our tax system and contribute to the very programs that they want to be able to recieve.  At this point that doesn't happen.  Right now the dollars that should be going to help families in this country, are going out of the USA.

 

The get paid s***, for the most part. These aren't people making CEO salaries. :headshake

 

Their contributions to the economy far outweigh whatever benefits they get.

 

So do you people b**** about aid the U.S. gives to foreign countries as much as this?

[NorthSideSox72]

Their contributions to the economy far outweigh whatever benefits they get.

 

This part is true. That is why I personally would like to see a migrant worker program. They can continue to contribute, and continue to get paid better than they do in their own country. But we need to make sure they are documented, protected, and paying into the system like everyone else. That includes, by the way, the businesses that hire them.

 

And yeah, some people here do b**** about the extent and type US foreign aid. I am sometimes among them.

[Balta1701]

The get paid s***, for the most part.  These aren't people making CEO salaries.  :headshake

 

Their contributions to the economy far outweigh whatever benefits they get.

 

So do you people b**** about aid the U.S. gives to foreign countries as much as this?

1. They're paid sh*t, but they are still paid enough such that they are able to send money back...and given the value of U.S. dollars in Central and Southern American countries...they're sending back significant amounts. All over out here banks advertise their willingness to send money abroad for free for 1 single reason.

 

2. They also do significant amounts of damage to the economy, by driving down wages for average working people and taking away jobs.

[kapkomet]

The get paid s***, for the most part.  These aren't people making CEO salaries.   :headshake

 

Their contributions to the economy far outweigh whatever benefits they get.

 

So do you people b**** about aid the U.S. gives to foreign countries as much as this?

No they don't get paid CEO salaries. But for the 13 million (if not more) illegals here, that adds up to a hell of a lot of money over time that should be staying here if they were here illegally.

 

As far as "their contributions to the economy far outweugh whatever benefits they get". There's no way you can make that statement and be correct about it when they are ILLEGAL... they take other jobs that others LEGALLY could have.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

2.  They also do significant amounts of damage to the economy, by driving down wages for average working people and taking away jobs.

 

Ah, yes...people are clamoring for those fast-food, gardening, and cleaning jobs... :rolly

[SleepyWhiteSox]

As far as "their contributions to the economy far outweugh whatever benefits they get".  There's no way you can make that statement and be correct about it when they are ILLEGAL... they take other jobs that others LEGALLY could have.

 

And which jobs are those?

Edited March 10, 2006 by SleepyWhiteSox

[Balta1701]

And which jobs are those?

Took my fiancee over 2 years after we got out here to find a job. She applied for multiple fast-food jobs just so she could have something to build a resume & pay towards her college loans. Couldn't even get that. Finally found something decent last fall.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Took my fiancee over 2 years after we got out here to find a job.  She applied for multiple fast-food jobs just so she could have something to build a resume & pay towards her college loans.  Couldn't even get that.  Finally found something decent last fall.

 

Is what she found in fast food?

 

I imagine that with a college education she will be able to move up well in whatever she does.

 

By the way, congrats on the fiancee.

[Balta1701]

Is what she found in fast food?

 

I imagine that with a college education she will be able to move up well in whatever she does.

 

By the way, congrats on the fiancee.

Eventually no, but had there been one available she'd have taken it.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Eventually no, but had there been one available she'd have taken it.

 

Temporarily, I imagine...

[SleepyWhiteSox]

This part is true.  That is why I personally would like to see a migrant worker program.  They can continue to contribute, and continue to get paid better than they do in their own country.  But we need to make sure they are documented, protected, and paying into the system like everyone else.  That includes, by the way, the businesses that hire them.

 

And yeah, some people here do b**** about the extent and type US foreign aid.  I am sometimes among them.

 

Agreed on all points.

 

But until the government smartens up and implements such plans, I don't completely fault hard-working individuals who come to work and provide for their families. Yes, it's illegal (as are other laws oftentimes broken), but I don't see any malicious intent, and definitely not enough for them to recieve the negativety that they do...

[zach61]

My bad.   

 

I just don't agree that those who are here legally along with citizens should be punished for assisting someone here illegally.  The great example being used is that a doctor who assists someone here illegally will be committing a crime.  Does that merit jail time?

 

Yes. If that same doctor assisted someone who did nothing wrong at the time, but later flew a plane into a building, would you be ok with that doctor helping that person too?

[Balta1701]

Agreed on all points.

 

But until the government smartens up and implements such plans, I don't completely fault hard-working individuals who come to work and provide for their families.  Yes, it's illegal (as are other laws oftentimes broken), but I don't see any malicious intent, and definitely not enough for them to recieve the negativety that they do...

Baseball had a policy against steroid use since 1991, but did not start testing until 2003. Was it ok for baseball players to use steroids against the policy in order to improve their numbers before 2003?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Yes. If that same doctor assisted someone who did nothing wrong at the time, but later flew a plane into a building, would you be ok with that doctor helping that person too?

 

Sure would. The doctor is just doing his job, and a very noble one in helping people at that. Even jailed criminals get medical assistance when necessary. It's silly to blame a doctor for that example.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 08:26 PM)

It has nothing to do with immigrants.  It has everything to do with ILLEGAL activity.  If the US wants to set up a guest worker program and have people here legally to work that is great.  That way the immigrants are protected from being taken advantage of and ensuring their rights, and my tax dollars aren't subsidizing illegal activity and families in other countries who don't pay taxes to the US.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is the biggest thing to me right there. A lot of illegals come here and are hired and paid under the table. They are not paying taxes or putting money into health benefits. However, they are still receiving health care and other benefits. Some are also adding on to the criminal activities in our neighborhoods. Notice I said some, not all, not most, but some.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Baseball had a policy against steroid use since 1991, but did not start testing until 2003.  Was it ok for baseball players to use steroids against the policy in order to improve their numbers before 2003?

 

Not sure where you're going with that one...

 

Using steroids is harmful. Working to provide for your life is not.

[NorthSideSox72]

That is the biggest thing to me right there. A lot of illegals come here and are hired and paid under the table. They are not paying taxes or putting money into health benefits. However, they are still receiving health care and other benefits. Some are also adding on to the criminal activities in our neighborhoods. Notice I said some, not all, not most, but some.

And because they are paid on the sly, they aren't protected by laws that could be helpful to them. They can be, and sometimes are, abused in various ways. Getting them into the system helps everyone involved, the workers included.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 08:26 PM)

My bad.   

 

I just don't agree that those who are here legally along with citizens should be punished for assisting someone here illegally.  The great example being used is that a doctor who assists someone here illegally will be committing a crime.  Does that merit jail time?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is one example. I think they are talking more about those that are employing them illegally. For instance employers that pay illegals under the table. I think they will be after them more so than the doctors. The doctors are just doing their job. The employers are taking advantage of the situation.

[southsider2k5]

The get paid s***, for the most part.  These aren't people making CEO salaries.  :headshake

 

Their contributions to the economy far outweigh whatever benefits they get.

 

So do you people b**** about aid the U.S. gives to foreign countries as much as this?

 

Somehow I think working in dangerous conditions for pennies on the dollar with no protections of anykind they are contributing more than they are taking out. There is nothing to make sure that these people are safe, or to make sure that they are even getting paid. They are here illegally and their very status is in danger if they try to stand up for themselves. You don't seem to get that making sure that everything is done legally is for their own protection as well as the protection of the American tax payer and employers... But I guess that arguement is only valid for abortion right?

[zach61]

Not sure where you're going with that one...

 

Using steroids is harmful.  Working to provide for your life is not.

 

He's trying to point out that steroids were illegal even though baseball didn't test or punish for them. Just because baseball didn't test doesn't make it legal to use.

[southsider2k5]

Not sure where you're going with that one...

 

Using steroids is harmful.  Working to provide for your life is not.

 

It can be just as dangerous to do a job with no workplace protections in a job that isn't necesarily safe. These people have zero protections. OSHA doesn't make sure that they are using safe equiptment, are protected from poisonous chemicals, working a safe amount of hours etc. The incidents of workplace injury and death are way higher in places where there are no protections.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 08:38 PM)

The get paid s***, for the most part.  These aren't people making CEO salaries.  :headshake

 

Their contributions to the economy far outweigh whatever benefits they get.

 

So do you people b**** about aid the U.S. gives to foreign countries as much as this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They get paid a lot more here than they would in Mexico. That is why they come here. A lot of them get paid the same as an American worker would if he/she was not educated. They are dock workers and truck drivers and drywall/contstruction workers. They don't get paid s***. They get paid a lot more than you think. Not all of the jobs they have are minimum wage, plus they are not getting taxed.

[zach61]

Sure would.  The doctor is just doing his job, and a very noble one in helping people at that.  Even jailed criminals get medical assistance when necessary.  It's silly to blame a doctor for that example.

 

How about we use a bank robber then? If the doctor knew that the person robbed a bank and didn't turn him in, would that be ok? How many people here go to a doctor and don't give any information or insurance card? My guess is that if a person is paying cash and doesn't have insurance or identification, they are probably here illegaly and the doctor should report that.

 

Edit the post to say that the bank robber was shot while getting away and then went to a doctor for treatment.

Edited March 10, 2006 by zach61

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Somehow I think working in dangerous conditions for pennies on the dollar with no protections of anykind they are contributing more than they are taking out.  There is nothing to make sure that these people are safe, or to make sure that they are even getting paid.  They are here illegally and their very status is in danger if they try to stand up for themselves.  You don't seem to get that making sure that everything is done legally is for their own protection as well as the protection of the American tax payer and employers... But I guess that arguement is only valid for abortion right?

 

Whoah, abortion?

 

I'm gonna stick with this subject instead...

 

Again, I would gladly be happy if such a program as some of you are describing was put in place.

 

And my problem from the start has been with those who assist illegal immigrants being arrested, charged, jailed, etc...whether it be doctors, social workers, whatever...even common citizens who may unknowingly help an undocumented person. This new law itself is being protested because of that.