downtown protest

[kapkomet]

It just amazes me how people are so intent on professing how great and caring human beings they are because they care about all sorts of world issues and what-not and donate to charities, yet if the person in need happens to be here illegally, they're basically f***in' scum...    :headshake

And it just amazes me people that condone illegal activities because they simply feel sorry for their plight.

 

Look, COME HERE LEGALLY, and I'll help you all day. There's a lot of means of coming here LEGALLY. Otherwise, you're pretty much stealing.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

And it just amazes me people that condone illegal activities because they simply feel sorry for their plight.

 

Look, COME HERE LEGALLY, and I'll help you all day.  There's a lot of means of coming here LEGALLY.  Otherwise, you're pretty much stealing.

 

Bulls*** excuse...next you're gonna tell me you don't jay-walk and never drank under-age...

 

It may be illegal, but the vast majority aren't here to harm, just work and better themselves. If their were reasonable legal means to get here, then that's how it would work. Bottom line: there isn't.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Bulls*** excuse...next you're gonna tell me you don't jay-walk and never drank under-age...

 

It may be illegal, but the vast majority aren't here to harm, just work and better themselves.  If their were reasonable legal means to get here, then that's how it would work.  Bottom line: there isn't.

 

 

Thats why there should be a guest worker program to allow them to do what it is they're doing but under the auspices of the law.

 

Additionally, the states spend billions of dollars on medical services, education and god knows what else. The positive economic impact that might have by paying a little bit in taxes is swamped by the costs they cause the states and federal government.

[YASNY]

I can't believe people are advocating that it's acceptable for people to come to this country and disregard the laws of this country.

[kapkomet]

Bulls*** excuse...next you're gonna tell me you don't jay-walk and never drank under-age...

 

It may be illegal, but the vast majority aren't here to harm, just work and better themselves.  If their were reasonable legal means to get here, then that's how it would work.  Bottom line: there isn't.

Twist the argument to what I've done. Guess what? If I break the law, I have to pay the consequences, unlike these people who want RIGHTS that they DO NOT HAVE.

 

Their consequences are to get sent back to where they came from and nothing else. So, don't cry to me about these people's rights, because they don't have any in this country.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Thats why there should be a guest worker program to allow them to do what it is they're doing but under the auspices of the law. 

 

Agreed completely.

 

(And I was thinking that it would be a harsher view coming from you.)

 

Additionally,  the states spend billions of dollars on medical services, education and god knows what else.  The positive economic impact that might have by paying a little bit in taxes is swamped by the costs they cause the states and federal government.

 

Do the children that are born here deserve education and medical services? They're citizens, after all.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Twist the argument to what I've done.  Guess what?  If I break the law, I have to pay the consequences, unlike these people who want RIGHTS that they DO NOT HAVE. 

 

Their consequences are to get sent back to where they came from and nothing else.  So, don't cry to me about these people's rights, because they don't have any in this country.

 

Not even basic human rights?

 

Again, I don't think that a doctor who gives medical attention to an illegal person should have to be put in jail...Maybe I'm one of the few since everyone else seems to be greatly in favor of the law we're discussing.

[kapkomet]

Not even basic human rights?

 

Again, I don't think that a doctor who gives medical attention to an illegal person should have to be put in jail...Maybe I'm one of the few since everyone else seems to be greatly in favor of the law we're discussing.

Then I have to pay for their illegal asses. And I don't like it.

 

Again, it's not that I don't have compassion for some of these people, some of them are just trying to feed their families. And I also would welcome a work program.

 

But for them to just cross illegally and funnel money back and then cry about not getting any rights under our constitution, is pure BS to me.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Agreed completely.

 

(And I was thinking that it would be a harsher view coming from you.)   

Do the children that are born here deserve education and medical services?  They're citizens, after all.

 

 

And that has to change. Children of illegal immigrants should not be allowed US citizenship nor any benefits that come with it.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Then I have to pay for their illegal asses.  And I don't like it.

 

Again, it's not that I don't have compassion for some of these people, some of them are just trying to feed their families.  And I also would welcome a work program. 

 

But for them to just cross illegally and funnel money back and then cry about not getting any rights under our constitution, is pure BS to me.

 

 

^^^^

[SleepyWhiteSox]

And that has to change.  Children of illegal immigrants should not be allowed US citizenship nor any benefits that come with it.

 

Why not? Just let the sick children die??

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Then I have to pay for their illegal asses.  And I don't like it.

 

Again, it's not that I don't have compassion for some of these people, some of them are just trying to feed their families.  And I also would welcome a work program. 

 

But for them to just cross illegally and funnel money back and then cry about not getting any rights under our constitution, is pure BS to me.

 

If you suddenly have all of this so-called compassion, then wouldn't you be blaming the system more than the people?

[WCSox]

Why does it matter where a person in need comes from?

 

It sure as hell does matter when they've already broken the law by living here illegally. If you want to help poor Mexicans, give to charity.

 

And what handouts do you speak of??  How is coming here to work and make below minimum wage receiving handouts??

 

Well, for starters, they're illegally given asylum here. The minimum wage they make here is also significantly more than they make in Mexico. So, they get to enjoy a higher salary, a higher standard of living, and illegal asylum in a much safer country. Sounds like a handout to me. And I'm sure that it won't stop there. They've already begun demanding driver's licences and I'm sure that health benefits are on the horizon.

 

Now, granted, there is a tiny percentage that probably does abuse the system (compared to a larger percentage of citizens who abuse it much worse), but the vast majority just come here to work and not cause any harm to anyone, no different than any of us.

 

Except for those working for the Mexican drug cartels, of course.

 

I would be in favor of a guest worker program to help these people, but the current situation is utter chaos. There needs to be a mechanism by where we can allow a controlled number of honest guest worker into the country and keep out the drug cartels.

 

It just amazes me how people are so intent on professing how great and caring human beings they are because they care about all sorts of world issues and what-not and donate to charities, yet if the person in need happens to be here illegally, they're basically f***in' scum...    :headshake

 

They're not scum, they're criminals. People who aren't U.S. citizens and broke the law by coming here illegally aren't entitled to taxpayer-funded handouts.

 

It just amazes me how people think that it's our moral duty to financially support the rest of the world, even when said people break our immigration laws. It also amazes me that some people think that money magically grows on trees in America and that it's even remotely possible for our tax dollars to support hundreds of millions of illegal Mexican immigrants without our economy completely collapsing.

 

But for them to just cross illegally and funnel money back and then cry about not getting any rights under our constitution, is pure BS to me.

 

Exactly.

[WCSox]

And that has to change.  Children of illegal immigrants should not be allowed US citizenship nor any benefits that come with it.

 

Ah, yes, the "anchor babies." People come here illegally and knock up their spouses immediately so that they can stay when their child is born a "U.S. citizen." And, hey, they get to have the child at the hospital for free (actually, at the expense of the taxpayers).

 

No wonder our healthcare costs are skyrocketing. :headshake

[SleepyWhiteSox]

asylum???

[southsider2k5]

asylum???

 

We tried that already in 1986. Granted that was before you were born, but we were fed the same lines of crap back then how it was supposed to fix things, and that all of these new tough immigration laws were going to take care of the problem... We now have an estimated 12 million illegal aliens here, with an additional 500,000 arriving every single year. That is the entire populations of NYC, Chicago, and Houston, combined, that are hear illegally. That is 12 million people who are burdening all of our vital welfare systems in place for our own poor people. They have the effect of increasing our people under the poverty line by about 50% when they are included into statistics.

 

Asylum doesn't fix anything. All asylum does it reward 12 million people for breaking the law, stretching our basic services to the breaking point, endangering their own exsistances, and burdening the legally tax paying citizens of this country with a bill they should have no obligation to pay. And an obligation is exactly what it becomes. Welfare, healthcare, unemployment, education etc, all become our responsibility if we reward these people for their illegal actions. To an extent we are already supplying them with some of these things, and it all comes at the low, low price of dangerous border crossings, dangerous working conditions, enriching the fortunes of criminals who endager peoples lives to get them across the border, taking precious resources away from American poor and working poor, chaotic borders, and higher taxes. All granting asylum does is offer another reward for people who are willing to endanger the lives of themselves and their families, and enrich the people who are willing to take advantage of them. Its the equivilent of rewarding the 4 year old throwing a temper tantrum with a new Playstation, instead of making him earn it.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

That is 12 million people who are burdening all of our vital welfare systems in place for our own poor people.

 

Because all 12 million are on welfare?

 

What I meant was that there currently is no "illegal asylum." That's bulls***.

 

Again, blame the American government for not taking the proper actions if they really want to fix the problem, not the good, hard-working people who just want to provide for themselves and their family. Such obvious, negative attitudes, the stereotyping, racism, etc., is unneccesary.

[southsider2k5]

Because all 12 million are on welfare?   

 

What I meant was that there currently is no "illegal asylum."  That's bulls***.

 

Again, blame the American government for not taking the proper actions if they really want to fix the problem, not the good, hard-working people who just want to provide for themselves and their family.  Such obvious, negative attitudes, the stereotyping, racism, etc., is unneccesary.

 

Um, you were just the one arguing how low paying the jobs are they are working. Think about it. You take 12 million people who for the great majority are making less than the minimum wage and add them legally to our social services systems, and what do you think will happen?

 

And personally I would love to see how you would explain to the LEGAL hard working people who just want to provide for themselves and their family, why they should be obligated and forced to support people whose very presense here is a violation of multiple American laws. And your damned right I blame the government for consistantly having two contradictary policies when it comes to immigration. On one hand we tell people to come here legally, but on the other the government looks the otherway when the opposite happens. This problem isn't going to get fixed by making 12 million new citizens, because the core of the problem still exsists and that the US government is a complicit aider in giving financial incentives to be an illegal alien in the USA. Everytime you take away a potential reward for illegally migrating into the US, you decrease the amount of people who are willing to do it. That isn't racism, it is pure economics. People won't do something they don't get a utility out of. You want to stop illegal immigration, stop rewarding people for doing it.

 

And finally, keep the race card in your pocket. Its one thing if you want to argue the subject, but it is weak and narrowminded to throw that out everytime you can't refute an arguement.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

And finally, keep the race card in your pocket.  Its one thing if you want to argue the subject, but it is weak and narrowminded to throw that out everytime you can't refute an arguement.

 

What argument have I not refuted?

 

Racism and steryotyping will always be a part of the issue, whether you choose to admit it or not. No need to get on your high horse as if you think you're above it...

[WCSox]

Racism and steryotyping will always be a part of the issue, whether you choose to admit it or not.  No need to get on your high horse as if you think you're above it...

 

Isn't the race card getting kind of old? :rolly

 

Let me ask you something: What do you do for a living?

[mr_genius]

What argument have I not refuted?   

 

Racism and steryotyping will always be a part of the issue, whether you choose to admit it or not. 

 

 

:headshake

 

you are so ignorant on this topic.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Isn't the race card getting kind of old?  :rolly

 

Let me ask you something:  What do you do for a living?

 

Let me ask you something: Why do you want to know?

 

That has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand, but I appreciate the curiosity about me. Personally, I dislike it when people feel the need to bring up specifics about a person to either validate or disprove their opinions. I prefer not knowing or caring who you are and what you do in this particular setting and just taking your opinion for what it's worth.

 

And at no point have I played the race card...just that their were shades of latent racism in the tones of some of the posts...Not surprised to see it misintrepreted and twisted. :rolly

[SleepyWhiteSox]

:headshake

 

you are so ignorant on this topic.

 

How so?

 

Please enlighten me. I luv it how everyone is a self-professed expert when all we're doing is sharing opinions.

 

Just because my opinion is different, you have to call me ignorant about a topic to make yourself feel better?

[WCSox]

Let me ask you something:   Why do you want to know?

 

I want to know if you're some college student who is living off of either student loans and/or your parents, or if you're actually out in the real world and are having federal tax, state tax, local tax, Medicare, Social Security, and health insurance (a REAL b****) taken out of your paycheck every month. Oh, and let's not forget those student loan repayments! What's it cost to go to college nowadays? Twenty thousand a year? :headshake Do you have any idea how much per month it costs to pay back eighty freaking thousand dollars? Do you have a spouse or child who are fiancially dependent upon you? Do you have any freaking clue how much THAT costs?

 

If you're out in the real world and have to deal with the financial reality of getting by in today's over-priced world, your attitude towards taxing people who work LEGALLY for a living might be different.

Edited March 13, 2006 by WCSox

[mr_genius]

How so?

 

Please enlighten me. 

 

 

You are claiming people that oppose illegal immigration are probably racist, this is not accurate. Sure, some people are racist... but the vast majority of people against illegal immigration are against it because of the huge financial strain it puts on the current citizens of the country and security issues.