downtown protest

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Mar 14, 2006 -> 06:13 PM)

Exactly, which has been my point from the beginning, even though it's gotten lost in all of the bulls***...

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The bulls*** has been instigated by you. YOU played the race card. You brought it up. It was unneccesary to do that. But you did. Now your playing the victim. Oh woah is me and all this bulls*** people keep bringing up. You started it and now you are upset because you have to deal with it. Plain and simple, you shouldn't have brought it up.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

The bulls*** has been instigated by you. YOU played the race card. You brought it up. It was unneccesary to do that. But you did. Now your playing the victim. Oh woah is me and all this bulls*** people keep bringing up. You started it and now you are upset because you have to deal with it. Plain and simple, you shouldn't have brought it up.

 

lol...

[YASNY]

I love the "rite of passage" that is being brought up in argument.  "Well back in the civil war days..."  Who gives a rats ass.  If we were follow those lines of logic, then we should meet up in the street and beat this argument out with clubs and knives, any takers????

 

The fact is, regardless of why immigrants come here, or what they are doing here, the bill in question refuses any medical treatment to illegals and will prosecute any doctors following their hippocratic oath. That is a fundamentally flawed idea, and in the support of basic human rights, I am against it.

 

Talk about fundementally flawed. When someone steps across the border and therefore shows total disrespect for the laws of this land, and then expects the citizens of this land to supply them with aid in any form, that is fundamentally flawed.

Edited March 14, 2006 by YASNY

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 14, 2006 -> 06:11 PM)

I love the "rite of passage" that is being brought up in argument.  "Well back in the civil war days..."  Who gives a rats ass.  If we were follow those lines of logic, then we should meet up in the street and beat this argument out with clubs and knives, any takers????

 

The fact is, regardless of why immigrants come here, or what they are doing here, the bill in question refuses any medical treatment to illegals and will prosecute any doctors following their hippocratic oath. That is a fundamentally flawed idea, and in the support of basic human rights, I am against it.

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Maybe you came into the discussion a little late. It is a great point that every nationality has had to go through hard times and in most cases even worse than now. I don't know what you are trying to rationalize or what you are trying to make out of that. If someone comes here with absolutely nothing (and the little they do have is taken away from them in "welcoming fees") as many immigrants have, how do you expect them to live? Do you expect them to live the great life here? Of course not. It is not a racial thing at all, which is what I have been trying to point out to our good friend sleepy, but he doesn't want to get it.

 

I agree with your second part. It is a bad bill. I don't know how it got through as far as it did. But something must be done to prevent this and to make our country more safe and so our tax money can go to use for CITIZENS of this country.

Edited March 14, 2006 by southsideirish

[WCSox]

Talk about fundementally flawed. When someone steps across the border and therefore shows total disrespect for the laws of this land, and then expects the citizens of this land to supply them with aid in any form, that is fundamentally flawed.

 

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(YASNY @ Mar 14, 2006 -> 06:24 PM)

Talk about fundementally flawed. When someone steps across the border and therefore shows total disrespect for the laws of this land, and then expects the citizens of this land to supply them with aid in any form, that is fundamentally flawed.

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YASNY I agree, however you can't prosecute a dr. for doing his job. He took an oath. You just can't do that. That is wrong. If I give a tip to a waitress/waiter that is illegal, can I be prosecuted for giving her/him money? Will I have to ask for everyone's papers? It is a bad bill.

Edited March 14, 2006 by southsideirish

[RockRaines]

Talk about fundementally flawed. When someone steps across the border and therefore shows total disrespect for the laws of this land, and then expects the citizens of this land to supply them with aid in any form, that is fundamentally flawed.

How is that flawed? It is respect for human rights. Do you respect every law of the land? Prosecuting doctors for treating people in need of help is just plain wrong IMO.

[YASNY]

YASNY I agree, however you can't prosecute a dr. for doing his job. He took an oath. You just can't do that. That is wrong. If I give a tip to a waitress/waiter that is illegal, can I be prosecuted for giving her/him money? Will I have to ask for everyone's papers? It is a bad bill.

 

Ok. I'll agree with it being a bad bill. I won't agree with the philosophies that have been espoused here that we should just forget about the fact that these people are, in fact, ILLEGAL aliens.

[YASNY]

How is that flawed?  It is respect for human rights.  Do you respect every law of the land?  Prosecuting doctors for treating people in need of help is just plain wrong IMO.

 

It's flawed because their first act upon entering this country is to disregard our laws by doing so.

[RockRaines]

It's flawed because their first act upon entering this country is to disregard our laws by doing so.

Do we prosecute doctors for treating criminals injured in the act? No. Every human being is entitled to his or her human rights.

 

The bill is basically categorizing immigrants as lower forms of human, not worthy to medical treatment when in need. Thats wrong IMO.

Edited March 14, 2006 by RockRaines

[YASNY]

Do we prosecute doctors for treating criminals injured in the act?  No.  Every human being is entitled to his or her human rights.

 

They have the right to go home. If they cross the border again, they have the right to remain silent. Anything they say may be used against them in a court of law. They have the right to an attorney .....

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 14, 2006 -> 06:36 PM)

How is that flawed?  It is respect for human rights.  Do you respect every law of the land?  Prosecuting doctors for treating people in need of help is just plain wrong IMO.

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That is flawed thinking right there Rock. If I disrespect a law of the land then I am penalized for it either monetarily or in jail time. If a person is caught here illegally then there should also be a punishment to fit that crime (i.e., being sent back or what have you). Punishing the Dr. for doing his job is not punishing the correct person though.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Not all Irish spoke English. Many only spoke Gaelic, which is nothing like English.

 

Sure, but most did.

[WCSox]

Do we prosecute doctors for treating criminals injured in the act?  No.  Every human being is entitled to his or her human rights.

 

Does every human being around the world have the "right" to medical care at a top-notch American hospital? I'm not sure about that.

 

Can't say I'm in favor of turning away patients in the emergency room. The best course of action seems to be tighter border security and imprisonment of captured illegals prior to deportation. They'll have less incentive to come here when the worst-case scenario is more than just a free ride back to the border.

[LosMediasBlancas]

You obviously havent met my relatives 

 

 

LOL, I know plenty of 'American citizens' who could use a quick review themselves.

[NorthSideSox72]

They have the right to go home.  If they cross the border again, they have the right to remain silent.  Anything they say may be used against them in a court of law.  They have the right to an attorney .....

And in the case of a person being arrested, if they have a medical emergency, the state must get them treated. So I think the same could be said here.

 

I agree with this law on the whole (illegal immigrants are criminals by definition), but as far as preventing Doctors from rendering care, I think that is counterproductive and inhumane. Remove that part, and I am OK with the rest of it (the parts I am familiar with).

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 14, 2006 -> 06:38 PM)

Do we prosecute doctors for treating criminals injured in the act?  No.  Every human being is entitled to his or her human rights. 

 

The bill is basically categorizing immigrants as lower forms of human, not worthy to medical treatment when in need.  Thats wrong IMO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I understand what you are trying to say, but the bill is not trying to do that. Maybe that is what it is saying to you, but that is not what it is trying to do.

 

What it is trying to do is to prevent immigration by stopping anyone from dealing with them. If no one will give them a job, money, food, a ride, shelter, medical service, or what have you because they are affraid of going to jail or getting fined a lot of cash, then they have no reason to be here and will have to go back home. It is trying to stop anyone from dealing with them. It is not trying to state, as you have put it, that "immigrants are lower forms of human." That just isn't the case.

Edited March 14, 2006 by southsideirish

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Mar 14, 2006 -> 06:41 PM)

Sure, but most did.

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And your point is what? Do Mexicans need to learn English? Is your point that the Irish didn't have that obstacle? Do the Mexican's have what little money they do have taken away from them upon arrival? Are they told they can't have a job because they are Mexican? Are they forced to join the Army and go fight in a war that they have no idea what it is about as soon as they step foot in this country? Do they have to arrive in "coffin ships"? And these were immigrants arriving here legally. Immigrants that wanted to be here to start a new life. Each nationality had their own struggles. When you come here with nothing, what do you expect? Don't expect everything to be handed to you. Our tax dollars should not go to anything that they need or supply anything for them. You want to point out one obstacle that some didn't have to face. Kudos to you. Now what about the Germans, the Polish, and the Chinese?

Edited March 14, 2006 by southsideirish

[YASNY]

And your point is what? That the Irish didn't have that obstacle? Do the Mexican's have what little money they do have taken away from them upon arrival? Are they told they can't have a job because they are Mexican? Are they forced to join the Army and go fight in a war that they have no idea what it is about? Do they have to arrive in "coffin ships"? And these were immigrants arriving here legally. Immigrants that wanted to be here to start a new life. Each nationality had their own struggles. When you come here with nothing, what do you expect? Don't expect everything to be handed to you. Our tax dollars should not go to anything that they need or supply anything for them. You want to point out one obstacle that some didn't have to face. Kudos to you. Now what about the Germans, the Polish, and the Chinese?

 

One point I'll make in response is that Mexicans quite often arrive in 'coffin trucks'.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(YASNY @ Mar 14, 2006 -> 06:52 PM)

One point I'll make in response is that Mexicans quite often arrive in 'coffin trucks'.

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YASNY, it happens, but it is not the only way or the most common way. Plus they are doing so illegally, so they have to hide. The Irish were coming here legally.

Edited March 14, 2006 by southsideirish

[NorthSideSox72]

YASNY, it happens, but it is not the only way or the most common way.

Actually, trucks, stifling railcars and across burning deserts are the most common ways. Nothing fun about any of those.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 14, 2006 -> 06:56 PM)

Actually, trucks, stifling railcars and across burning deserts are the most common ways.  Nothing fun about any of those.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And they do that because it is illegal correct? Weren't the Irish coming over legally? Hmm, big difference when you are doing it because you are trying to hide and coming over illegally. I guess those are the chances you will take if that is the case.

Edited March 14, 2006 by southsideirish

[YASNY]

YASNY, it happens, but it is not the only way or the most common way.

 

Still, they do take substantial risks however they cross the border. They face bandits, deserts, etc. I just think that saying one group face more risk than another is a moot point due to the fact that, generally, none of them had an easy way to go.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(YASNY @ Mar 14, 2006 -> 06:58 PM)

Still, they do take substantial risks however they cross the border.  They face bandits, deserts, etc.  I just think that saying one group face more risk than another is a moot point due to the fact that, generally, none of them had an easy way to go.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I never said one had it easier than the next. I said all of them have it hard. No one should claim racism because it is hard on them. It is the way it is when you come over here with absolutely nothing trying to start a new life. That was my point all along. Someone was trying to claim racism because they are treated poorly and have it hard. Every immigrant group has and has been.

[LosMediasBlancas]

A few ponits.

Do you guys really believe that if the gov. wanted to end illegal immigration it couldn't have done it long ago? It could end it today. As yourselves why it won't do that. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

By the way, plenty of people of ALL nationalities have come into this country legally and illegally and a lot of them brought a lot of s*** people with them too. It's easy to focus on the majority, but what appplies to one applies to all.