downtown protest

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 09:19 PM)

And because they are paid on the sly, they aren't protected by laws that could be helpful to them.  They can be, and sometimes are, abused in various ways.  Getting them into the system helps everyone involved, the workers included.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It is still to their benefit. That is why they come over here. I agree that getting them into the system or kicking them out is the way to go. I am in complete agreeance with that. I am not against the law/bill at all.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

They get paid a lot more here than they would in Mexico. That is why they come here. A lot of them get paid the same as an American worker would if he/she was not educated. They are dock workers and truck drivers and drywall/contstruction workers. They don't get paid s***. They get paid a lot more than you think. Not all of the jobs they have are minimum wage, plus they are not getting taxed.

 

And many use fake social security numbers and other such documents...some money does get taken out; it isn't all under-the-table.

[NorthSideSox72]

It is still to their benefit. That is why they come over here. I agree that getting them into the system or kicking them out is the way to go. I am in complete agreeance with that. I am not against the law/bill at all.

Absolutely.

[southsider2k5]

Whoah, abortion?

 

I'm gonna stick with this subject instead...

 

Again, I would gladly be happy if such a program as some of you are describing was put in place.

 

And my problem from the start has been with those who assist illegal immigrants being arrested, charged, jailed, etc...whether it be doctors, social workers, whatever...even common citizens who may unknowingly help an undocumented person.  This new law itself is being protested because of that.

 

This law is much for for the citrus grower in south Texas who knowingly goes to Brownsville and rounds up 20 Mexicians to help him pick his harvest for 1/10 the the cost, than it is for the doctor treating patients. Part of the reason so many people come here illegally is that they know they can get these jobs without going through the legal means. By making a disincentive for employers to commit an illegal activity, you go a long way towards stopping that illegal activity. The equivilent would be to arrest everyone who uses drugs, but to let all of the dealers and suppliers go, because they weren't actually using the drugs. They are still contributing to an illegal activity.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 09:27 PM)

And many use fake social security numbers and other such documents...some money does get taken out; it isn't all under-the-table.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh trust me, those are not fake. They are taking others identities, someone else's SS# is being used.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Oh trust me, those are not fake. They are taking others identities, someone else's SS# is being used.

 

Yep, that too. And they never see that money again.

[RockRaines]

Yessir.

cool im at adams and wacker, crazy.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

This law is much for for the citrus grower in south Texas who knowingly goes to Brownsville and rounds up 20 Mexicians to help him pick his harvest for 1/10 the the cost, than it is for the doctor treating patients.  Part of the reason so many people come here illegally is that they know they can get these jobs without going through the legal means.  By making a disincentive for employers to commit an illegal activity, you go a long way towards stopping that illegal activity.  The equivilent would be to arrest everyone who uses drugs, but to let all of the dealers and suppliers go, because they weren't actually using the drugs.  They are still contributing to an illegal activity.

 

It already is illegal to hire undocumented workers.

[RockRaines]

It already is illegal to hire undocumented workers.

It shouldnt be illegal for a doctor to treat them if they get injured at that job though.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

It shouldnt be illegal for a doctor to treat them if they get injured at that job though.

 

Exactly.

[Balta1701]

It already is illegal to hire undocumented workers.

That doesn't mean we actually take any efforts to prevent them from being hired. For crying out loud, the federal government signed an agreement with Wal-Mart guaranteeing that the Feds would have to give Wal-mart a warning of several days before they could conduct any searches for illegal workers.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 09:29 PM)

This law is much for for the citrus grower in south Texas who knowingly goes to Brownsville and rounds up 20 Mexicians to help him pick his harvest for 1/10 the the cost, than it is for the doctor treating patients.  Part of the reason so many people come here illegally is that they know they can get these jobs without going through the legal means.  By making a disincentive for employers to commit an illegal activity, you go a long way towards stopping that illegal activity.  The equivilent would be to arrest everyone who uses drugs, but to let all of the dealers and suppliers go, because they weren't actually using the drugs.  They are still contributing to an illegal activity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is exactly what I was saying. However, it is not just these jobs that are being taken. It is happening right here in Chicago. Friends of family help people come over here illegally and place them with jobs with other friends. Not bad jobs at all. All under the table. Truck drivers, construction, dock workers, and dry wall workers are some that I know of. Those are not just some pennies on the dollar type of jobs. They do pretty decent, especially when you consider they have friends of family giving them a room to stay in and helping them live and they aren't paying taxes. It adds up pretty nicely.

[zach61]

It shouldnt be illegal for a doctor to treat them if they get injured at that job though.

 

But it should be illegal if he doesn't report them to the authorities. It's not about not treating them, it's about not telling someone they are illegally here.

[NorthSideSox72]

cool im at adams and wacker, crazy.

kewl.

[Balta1701]

But it should be illegal if he doesn't report them to the authorities. It's not about not treating them, it's about not telling someone they are illegally here.

But see...then you're guaranteeing that no one here illegally will ever visit a doctor, even if they're at risk of dying, because they won't want to be referred to the authorities.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

That is exactly what I was saying. However, it is not just these jobs that are being taken. It is happening right here in Chicago. Friends of family help people come over here illegally and place them with jobs with other friends. Not bad jobs at all. All under the table. Truck drivers, construction, dock workers, and dry wall workers are some that I know of. Those are not just some pennies on the dollar type of jobs. They do pretty decent, especially when you consider they have friends of family giving them a room to stay in and helping them live and they aren't paying taxes. It adds up pretty nicely.

 

So if employers are paying them good money, why run the risk? Why not pay legal citizens that money?

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 09:32 PM)

It already is illegal to hire undocumented workers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It is very easy to catch the workers at the hotels and walmart. It is much harder to stop the little places, the small businesses. The friends of families. How good do you believe that that law actually works anyway? The only way they usually catch them is if a co-worker gets pissed off at them and calls immigration on them.

[southsider2k5]

And who do you think is primarily paying for people who make less than minimum wage to go to a doctor for a job they shouldn't be working at in the first place, when they shouldn't be here in the the first place, when they are hurt because their employer didn't take any precautions to make them safe in the first place.

 

My tax dollars should not be subsidizing an illegal activity. Period. We shouldn't be rewarding people for an illegal activity. By giving them access to all of our services without following any of our laws, or contributing to our tax base, you are stealing from every tax payer in this country. For every incentive you remove that rewards people for breaking the law, you force people to follow the laws and both pay people legal wages, and make sure that they are working in safe working places. Until the time where the employers have a reason to give a fair wage and a safe workplace, they are going to continue to abuse illegal aliens with their status as the ultimate threat.

[Balta1701]

It is very easy to catch the workers at the hotels and walmart. It is much harder to stop the little places, the small businesses. The friends of families. How good do you believe that that law actually works anyway? The only way they usually catch them is if a co-worker gets pissed off at them and calls immigration on them.

Actually it's almost impossible to catch them at Walmart now.

[zach61]

But see...then you're guaranteeing that no one here illegally will ever visit a doctor, even if they're at risk of dying, because they won't want to be referred to the authorities.

 

And thats the price anybody that does something illegally takes. They could also die in the desert trying to cross the border illegally. Should we send them buses to come here then so they don't get hurt?

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 09:40 PM)

So if employers are paying them good money, why run the risk?  Why not pay legal citizens that money?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Friends of family. Helping them out. Some are relatives that are here legally such as an aunt or uncle helping them out. Do you just read what you want to read?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

And who do you think is primarily paying for people who make less than minimum wage to go to a doctor for a job they shouldn't be working at in the first place, when they shouldn't be here in the the first place, when they are hurt because their employer didn't take any precautions to make them safe in the first place. 

 

My tax dollars should not be subsidizing an illegal activity.  Period. We shouldn't be rewarding people for an illegal activity.  By giving them access to all of our services without following any of our laws, or contributing to our tax base, you are stealing from every tax payer in this country.  For every incentive you remove that rewards people for breaking the law, you force people to follow the laws and both pay people legal wages, and make sure that they are working in safe working places.  Until the time where the employers have a reason to give a fair wage and a safe workplace, they are going to continue to abuse illegal aliens with their status as the ultimate threat.

 

Ever think that maybe the government doesn't do enough about it because the economy makes more out of it than if it was properly regulated?

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 09:41 PM)

Actually it's almost impossible to catch them at Walmart now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why is that? Because they have all been caught? Please explain, because I don't know what you mean. Usually the bigger the company with more people, then the easier it becomes to catch them. The easier it is that someone will end up not liking you and calling immigration on you.

[southsider2k5]

Ever think that maybe the government doesn't do enough about it because the economy makes more out of it than if it was properly regulated?

 

Who cares? It doesn't make it right if the government profits off of it. It doesn't make it right if anyone profits off of it.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Friends of family. Helping them out. Some are relatives that are here legally such as an aunt or uncle helping them out. Do you just read what you want to read?

 

Family only helps out so much. Nobody stays anywhere for free very long.

 

No need to be bitter because our opinions on a subject differ.