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QUOTE(watchtower41 @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 04:53 PM)
This will be the one and only time you will see me defend UNC, but the breakdown between the two is actually pretty easy. 

 

-UNC won 8 in a row (including @ #1 Duke) going into the ACC tourney and beat Virginia in the tourney.

 

-Illinois is 5-4 in their last 9 games and looked horrible in their opening round loss to Michigan State. 

Conference tournaments do count on the resume.  I agree that I would favor the Illini's overall body of work opposed to UNC, but how you finish has always been a major factor with the committee, this year was no different.  UNC also has also earned an elite reputation with the tournament, they will get the benefit in a close situation.

Body. Of. Work.

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i'm interested in your choice of a sampling size. you chose the past nine games. over that stretch, unc had a 6-3 record and illinois was 5-4. if you go to 10 games, both teams are 6-4. choosing a representative sample that just fits your argument isn't that sound.

 

and let's look at those last 10 games. in their final 10 games unc beat two tournament teams. they beat nc state and duke. in their final 10 games illinois beat four tournament teams - michigan state, wisconsin, indiana and iowa. what is more impressive?

 

UNC was actually 8-2 in their last 10 games, with the losses coming to the #2 team and the #7 team in the nation at the time.

 

so unc looked better in their tournament. one game better. they beat 15-14 virginia. illinois did not look great against michigan state, but who is better - msu or virginia.

 

so the finish stronger argument isn't that great, imo. what about the whole season.

UNC lost to a red-hot BC team that should/could have been as high as a 2 seed.

 

illinois had more wins against the rpi top 50. they had a better record than the heels. they finished in the same league position in a league generally considered stronger. they beat unc AT unc.

The problem is that UNC's SOS is 10, compared to Illini's 60th ranked, but the real problem is the Illini's 200th ranked out of conference schedule.

 

no way unc deserved a better seed. none.

 

but that's it. it's quitting time and after today no more b****ing. wah.

 

With all that said, I think the Illini should have been switched with Tenn. in the seedings.

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QUOTE(thedoctor @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 05:08 PM)
i'm interested in your choice of a sampling size. you chose the past nine games. over that stretch, unc had a 6-3 record and illinois was 5-4. if you go to 10 games, both teams are 6-4. choosing a representative sample that just fits your argument isn't that sound.

 

and let's look at those last 10 games. in their final 10 games unc beat two tournament teams. they beat nc state and duke. in their final 10 games illinois beat four tournament teams - michigan state, wisconsin, indiana and iowa. what is more impressive?

 

so unc looked better in their tournament. one game better. they beat 15-14 virginia. illinois did not look great against michigan state, but who is better - msu or virginia.

 

so the finish stronger argument isn't that great, imo. what about the whole season.

 

illinois had more wins against the rpi top 50. they had a better record than the heels. they finished in the same league position in a league generally considered stronger. they beat unc AT unc.

 

no way unc deserved a better seed. none.

 

but that's it. it's quitting time and after today no more b****ing. wah.

 

Doctor, I might have to call the cops on you. You're straight raping this dude.

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I would have seeded UNC higher than Illinois. I think their overall resumes are similar, but UNC is playing better basketball right now.

 

Now I can't explain Tennessee, however. Hell, the biggest Tennessee homer I have ever heard on sports talk radio admitted that UT got lucky as hell. He agreed both UNC and Illinois should have been seeded above the Vols.

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I think the committee made it pretty clear among the higher seeds that OOC strength was a big deal. Illinois played (and beat) tourney teams in Xavier, North Carolina, Georgetown, and Wichita State....but besides that, played absolute poopie. Combine that with a day 1 loss in Indy, and a home loss to Penn State, and that's why we are a #4 seed. I think we should have been a #3, but if you want to know why we are a #4, there you go.

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UNC was actually 8-2 in their last 10 games, with the losses coming to the #2 team and the #7 team in the nation at the time.

 

you got me on that one. i looked at the list a bit too quickly.

 

it is fine though. for the record i have no antipathy toward unc. really respect them and their coach. they have done an unbelievable job this year and my intent wasn't to diminish their season. i just felt and still do that illinois deserved a higher seed than them. that's all.

 

good luck to the heels in the tournament.

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it is fine though. for the record i have no antipathy toward unc. really respect them and their coach. they have done an unbelievable job this year and my intent wasn't to diminish their season. i just felt and still do that illinois deserved a higher seed than them. that's all.

 

good luck to the heels in the tournament.

 

Thanks, good luck to the Illini as well. I agree that the Illini deserved a better thread as well, it's just unfortunate the committee was drunk that night and then passed the liquor to the women's side a night later.

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QUOTE(thedoctor @ Mar 14, 2006 -> 07:02 AM)
you got me on that one. i looked at the list a bit too quickly.

 

it is fine though. for the record i have no antipathy toward unc. really respect them and their coach. they have done an unbelievable job this year and my intent wasn't to diminish their season. i just felt and still do that illinois deserved a higher seed than them. that's all.

 

good luck to the heels in the tournament.

 

 

Thats all I was trying to let you and other Illini fans know, how u finish counts for an awful lot. I used the last 9 games as a factor, because it is pretty clear on how the two teams finished out the season in different directions and obviously gets worse for Illinois case if I used more games. Of course Mich St is a better oppenent than Virginia, but this is really where the Illini lost their #3 seed. I already admitted that I like Illinois body of work better, and I don't even know why I am trying to justify UNC's seed to the few blinded Illinois fans. I've had more realistic discussions with diehards that are happy that they didnt fall to a #5. The strength of schedule is not even close. Yes I know Illinois beat UNC, yes the Big Ten is better than the ACC. But like I said before, UNC will get the benefit from the committee in a close situation, UNC coming in peaking at the right time earned them this spot and rightfully so. Illinois can earn that same creditability by going out and beating UConn instead of whining that you have to play them. Was Syracuse #5 seed before they finished the season the way they did??

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Strength of schedule is a joke to look at by the way. Illinois got hammered in SOS for playing really bad cupcakes instead of cupcakes. Lets compare UNC's schedule to Illinois. I'm not even complaining about the seed anymore but people who bring up SOS don't seem to understand the RPI. You can have a much higher strength of schedule without actually having a more difficult schedule.

 

UNC

Gardner Webb 157 Home

Cleveland St. 245 Home

UC Santa Barbara 219 Home

Illinois 14 Home (tourney team)

Kentucky 41 Away (tourney team)

St. Louis 101 Home

Santa Clara 184 Home

Southern Cal 117 Away

UNC Ashville 239 Home

Davidon 94 Home (tourney team)

Arizona 24 Home (tourney team)

 

Illinois

S. Dakota St. 276 Home

Texas Pan American 330 Home

Texas Southern 307 Home

Wichita St. 27 Neutral Court (tourney)

Rutger 75 Neutral

UNC 12 Away (tourney)

Xavier 77 Home/United Center (tourney)

Arkansas Little Rock Home 216

Georgetown 36 Home (tourney)

Oregon 147 Semi Away

Coppin St. 215 Home

Missouri 139 Neutral

Southeast Missouri St. 313 Home

Tennessee Martin 224 Home

 

We played the same amount of tourney teams, and Illinois played more top 100 teams as well as more away and neutral games. The reason Illinois SOS is so much worse is due to extra games against cupcakes. Instead of playing the Southeast MIssouri Sts of the world, Illinois had played Radford, Yale, Eastern Kentucky, etc. the SOS would have jumped dramatically when in fact the difficulty of the schedule would really be no different and Illinois would have been in the top 10 in the RPI.

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QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Mar 14, 2006 -> 04:36 PM)
Thanks, good luck to the Illini as well. I agree that the Illini deserved a better thread as well, it's just unfortunate the committee was drunk that night and then passed the liquor to the women's side a night later.

 

i think both committees might have been passing more than liquor around...

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QUOTE(watchtower41 @ Mar 14, 2006 -> 10:59 AM)
Thats all I was trying to let you and other Illini fans know, how u finish counts for an awful lot. I used the last 9 games as a factor, because it is pretty clear on how the two teams finished out the season in different directions and obviously gets worse for Illinois case if I used more games. Of course Mich St is a better oppenent than Virginia, but this is really where the Illini lost their #3 seed.  I already admitted that I like Illinois body of work better, and I don't even know why I am trying to justify UNC's seed to the few blinded Illinois fans. I've had more realistic discussions with diehards that are happy that they didnt fall to a #5.  The strength of schedule is not even close.  Yes I know Illinois beat UNC, yes the Big Ten is better than the ACC.  But like I said before, UNC will get the benefit from the committee in a close situation, UNC coming in peaking at the right time earned them this spot and rightfully so.  Illinois can earn that same creditability by going out and beating UConn instead of whining that you have to play them. Was Syracuse #5 seed before they finished the season the way they did??

I've had better conversations with people who don't say "illinois drew air force and play in san diego, so it's a good draw"

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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 16, 2006 -> 01:18 PM)
And Pacific is laughing at you.

 

Unfortunately, I had Hall...dammit.  At least Pacific's doing me proud thus far.

I got wichita and UW and BC will win this i know it.

 

 

I hope so :unsure:

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