Hermanson update, not much news but...

[SSH2005]

Cmon, Jabs. Those signings took place respectively 15 and 12 years ago. What's been going on since? Those foreign scouts have had one hell of slump.

 

Iguchi was recruited by Williams from a video tape. Shingo, I believe, was recruited through the same method.

 

Although I am  pessimistic, I'm tired of the crap. Our hitters are fine, but there's no above average player. Nothing to be critical about. If we're merely producing Aaron Rowand clones there's still a wide market for a good defensive outfielder capable of consistently hitting .280. It's our pitching which disgusts me. Maybe Brandon McCarthy is the baseball Gods gift for the years of sucktitude we've produced. His way of suggesting, "here's your ace--now prepare for soft tossing t-ball stands the next 6 years."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't see anything wrong with KW's method. He trades decent prospects or other players for other established players. He got Garcia, Contreras, and Vazquez for Morse, Olivo, Reed, Loaiza, El Duque, Vizcaino, and Young. Morse, Reed, and Young are three examples of players that our system produced that were apparently good enough to help us obtain a couple good pitchers. KW has been using this method for several years and both Garcia and Contreras helped us win a World Series. KW also traded Gio Gonzalez and Daniel Haigwood for Jim Thome -- two unproven pitchers used in a trade to obtain a proven slugger. This is all proof that our farm system does indeed produce.

 

When you see good teams like the Twins fail to win the World Series, there's a reason. The Twins' GM Terry Ryan is afraid to take a big risk and go the extra mile of trading a top prospect to fill a need. Just look at who their projected starting 3rd baseman is this season -- Tony Batista. That's just a flat-out embarrassment. After offseason rumors of obtaining Hank Blalock, he settles for a washed-up bum in Batista because he didn't want to give up a good prospect or two for Blalock. They could have even gotten Corey Koskie back for next to nothing but they chose Batista. These are the types of moves (or lack thereof) that end in playoff dreams being shattered.

Edited March 13, 2006 by SSH2005

[RockRaines]

Good arguments BTW. I see it like this: The only real guarantee that you are getting a good player, is by trading prospects for them. Prospects pan out barely ever, and they are still overvalued.

[jphat007]

Jphat.....where are you....

 

RIght here, after just reading articles that said we are going to look heavily at in-house options for awhile, juat like I said we would. They are going to wait it out and see, try to plug in a guy that we have in camp, and see where it goes.

 

And if we don't, they'll get a reliever that has had an ERA in the high 4's or 5s the last few years, just like I said. THx for bringing me up after they are doing what I said.

[quickman]

More than likely a trade.  Although I think they're gonna look for in-house replacements for the time being.  If Kenny can pull off a trade before the season starts that nets us a solid reliever,  I'll officially give him the title of best f***in gm on the planet.

 

 

there will be trade, going back to yesterdays conversation, they are hurting in the pen.

[quickman]

We don't have a ton of talent in the farm system but we have enough to net a decent reliever without having to trade Contreras.

 

 

Remember yesterdays thread?

[quickman]

Good arguments BTW.  I see it like this:  The only real guarantee that you are getting a good player, is by trading prospects for them.  Prospects pan out barely ever, and they are still overvalued.

 

 

yes finally you have come over to my side

[quickman]

RIght here, after just reading articles that said we are going to look heavily at in-house options for awhile, juat like I said we would. They are going to wait it out and see, try to plug in a guy that we have in camp, and see where it goes.

 

And if we don't, they'll get a reliever that has had an ERA in the high 4's or 5s the last few years, just like I said. THx for bringing me up after they are doing what I said.

 

 

Well I disagree, They will be looking today for a reliever. They are on the phones now.

[RockRaines]

Well I disagree, They will be looking today for a reliever. They are on the phones now.

I sure hope they are. There is also no reason that Casey Rogowski shouldnt be traded soon.

[Guest JimH]

Well I disagree, They will be looking today for a reliever. They are on the phones now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They were on the phone yesterday afternoon I suspect. They have been on the phone for a while.

 

Things don't always proceed on the White Sox' timeframe. We don't always like it but that's the way it goes.

 

They prepared for this by having all these open spots on the 40 man as was discussed yesterday. Teams want to get a good look at who fits in their organization and who doesn't. Some guys won't fit, they'll become available and we'll have a new reliever or two.

[RockRaines]

yes finally you have come over to my side 

You know it. Getting attached to prospects is ridiculous. We should only develop them to trade a majority for proven ML'ers

[jphat007]

Well I disagree, They will be looking today for a reliever. They are on the phones now.

 

KW is always on the phones.

[quickman]

Well this conversation was on the game thread yesterday. I think the sox are in trouble. They do not have the arms internally and they know it despite whats in the press. There will be a trade, and quite frankly I am surpised that KW thought hermy could come back without an injury.

[Balta1701]

You know it.  Getting attached to prospects is ridiculous.  We should only develop them to trade a majority for proven ML'ers

Well, the one nice thing about prospects, and the one reason to consider getting attached to them...is that if you find one of them that works, suddenly you have a starting position filled for $400k a year for 3-4 years, and for just a couple million a year in the few years after that...which lets you do insane things like giving Mark Buehrle the contract he so sorely deserves, etc.

[quickman]

Well, the one nice thing about prospects, and the one reason to consider getting attached to them...is that if you find one of them that works, suddenly you have a starting position filled for $400k a year for 3-4 years, and for just a couple million a year in the few years after that...which lets you do insane things like giving Mark Buehrle the contract he so sorely deserves, etc.

 

 

this is true, If you find one out of twenty then thats great, otherwise they are trading pawns. On a world series team it may be worse because your not going to bring up prospects to often to fill gaps on a world series team. I realize there are exceptions but that is rare. If your KC or cinci then I understand the need for prospects is greater.

[RockRaines]

Well, the one nice thing about prospects, and the one reason to consider getting attached to them...is that if you find one of them that works, suddenly you have a starting position filled for $400k a year for 3-4 years, and for just a couple million a year in the few years after that...which lets you do insane things like giving Mark Buehrle the contract he so sorely deserves, etc.

1 out of how many?

 

Right now you have BMAC, Anderson, Sweeney, Fields, Owens etc

A couple out of many that didnt work out. For the majority, prospects are just trade bait.

[Dick Allen]

What's comical to me is the alledged race for the second lefty reliever role. How do you base anything on 4 or 5 innings of spring training success? I don't think they have anybody vying for this role who would be remotely better in 2006 than Kevin Walker was in 2005.

[RockRaines]

What's comical to me is the alledged race for the second lefty reliever role. How do you base anything on 4 or 5 innings of spring training success? I don't think they have anybody vying for this role who would be remotely better in 2006 than Kevin Walker was in 2005.

I honestly beleive that Boone Logan is better than Walker. That guy was fill in.

[quickman]

What's comical to me is the alledged race for the second lefty reliever role. How do you base anything on 4 or 5 innings of spring training success? I don't think they have anybody vying for this role who would be remotely better in 2006 than Kevin Walker was in 2005.

 

 

Kw screwed up earlier this year and now he is 2 men short. He needs to come through fast.

[Balta1701]

1 out of how many?

 

Right now you have BMAC, Anderson, Sweeney, Fields, Owens etc

A couple out of many that didnt work out.  For the majority, prospects are just trade bait.

Exactly the point...you get those 5, and suddenly you have 1/5 of your team making the league minimum basically for 3-4 years, combined with guys like Konerko, Thome, Buehrle, Garland...and you've got a heck of a lineup.

 

BUT...the trick is, being able to figure out which ones are the worth-while ones even when others may not (i.e. BMac) and then trading away the ones who others may think are worthy but you don't think will be as successful (Reed, Aaron Miles, etc.)

 

Thus far, KW has been extraordinarily good at making that determination, to the point that we wound up with a trophy. He keeps that up, and we'll be in excellent shape.

[Flash Tizzle]

1 out of how many?

 

Right now you have BMAC, Anderson, Sweeney, Fields, Owens etc

A couple out of many that didnt work out.  For the majority, prospects are just trade bait.

I know people continually cite Williams' trades involving highly touted prospects and use it as proof they frequently fail. The entire issue is really a double edged sword. If a departed prospect were to exceed expectations and produce, suddenly, Williams would appear like an idiot for including them. However, if you trade prospect after prospect after prospect which supposedly was highly regarded, and none of them perform, you wonder where the organization is heading. Because it's not as if we're keeping the right ones.

 

Of the players you listed above, only McCarthy has proven himself worth a damn. Even Sweeney in all his glory couldn't be expected to exceed Dye's production. Or Fields with Crede. Owens is the lone suitor for Podsednik, and even that isn't exactly a compliment. Our system is rooted with crap, but honestly, we need SOME talent for the future. Even if they don't project to much more than an average player. I'll be happy if any of the above contribute immediately upon arrival.

 

Prospects don't work out, yes, but as Balta suggested--and the Yankees themselves have realized--plugging in players not big named and not commanding 10 million dollars is economically smart. I can't look at our future, even with a payroll approaching 100 million, and remain confident we're alright. Big talent will command big money. In two years, when Garcia and Contrereas are gone, it's going to be difficult outbidding other teams for pitchers of their caliber. Our method will be, once again, trading prospects midseason to a contender and drastically overpaying. This method has worked leading up the World Series, but would you bet on that method again?

[RockRaines]

Our method will be, once again, trading prospects midseason to a contender and drastically overpaying.

When did this occur????

[Flash Tizzle]

When did this occur????

For Garcia. It worked out for us, I can't disagree with that. I'm saying at the moment the trade was approved, I don't know many who looked at the package provided for Garcia and were happy. Did Williams know Morse would be average, Reed an Aaron Rowand clone, and Olivo a free-swinging pile of crap? Did he predict a huge shift in the offseason market for pitchers? Trades often are best assessed over a long period, as we've witnessed with the Garcia trade. Williams is a smart general manager, but he's not a genius. Only Beane holds that title.

 

I'm merely suggesting for a trade to occur which gives our club a pitcher of Garcia's caliber, we'll again have to overpay based on our analysis of players at that particular moment.

[RockRaines]

For Garcia. It worked out for us, I can't disagree with that. I'm saying at the moment the trade was approved, I don't know many who looked at the package provided for Garcia and were happy. Did Williams know Morse would be average, Reed an Aaron Rowand clone, and Olivo a free-swinging pile of crap? Did he predict a huge shift in the offseason market for pitchers? Trades often are best assessed over a long period, as we've witnessed with the Garcia trade. Williams is a smart general manager, but he's not a genius. Only Beane holds that title.

 

I'm merely suggesting for a trade to occur which gives our club a pitcher of Garcia's caliber, we'll again have to overpay based on our analysis of players at that particular moment.

So tell me how trading a starting Cf'er and two scraps overpaying for a top of the rotation starter? You still havent cleared that up for me. I was happy when the trade was announced, pitching is a premium, especially with our needs that season. We didnt need Reed, or Morse, or Olivo.

[Flash Tizzle]

Kenny wants to win this thing again, THIS YEAR, and I dont think he is going to get the bullpen get in the way.He will get somebody, even if it means overpaying.

 

Yeah, it wouldn't make sense for all Williams moves to suggest his desire to win now. then suddenly--with the issue of a weakened bullpen-- rely on a collection of s***ty minor leaguers/ST invitees.

[jphat007]

For Garcia. It worked out for us, I can't disagree with that. I'm saying at the moment the trade was approved, I don't know many who looked at the package provided for Garcia and were happy. Did Williams know Morse would be average, Reed an Aaron Rowand clone, and Olivo a free-swinging pile of crap? Did he predict a huge shift in the offseason market for pitchers? Trades often are best assessed over a long period, as we've witnessed with the Garcia trade. Williams is a smart general manager, but he's not a genius. Only Beane holds that title.

 

I'm merely suggesting for a trade to occur which gives our club a pitcher of Garcia's caliber, we'll again have to overpay based on our analysis of players at that particular moment.

 

I thought it was a great trade at the time. But you seem to have a pretty good grasp on things. Do you think if we asked the White Sox real nicely they'd let you become the GM for us! I mean, it really looks like we need it!