Commentary: Trading Colon Could be the Solution

[beebeerichards]

I fear C. Lee will break out as soon as we trade him.

[Jim Fainter]

I know I repeat myself from thread to thread, so I'll do it again. Any talk of trading Konerko is just idle chit chat. No one will take him, period. Same with Frank. The important thing now is to concentrate on marketing Colon, because he will have big time value to a team still in contention in July. Unless someone has inside knowledge on Bart's mindset, why would anyone even DREAM that he would re-sign with the Sox for 2004 and beyond? Why would he want to be part of this team next year? I think this is KW's most important job right now.

 

Regarding Jose, I think he is gone after this year. His average normally goes down in the second half, and he is around .225 or so now. $3 Million for Jose in 2004...........I don't think so.

 

Regarding Konerko, if he continues looking hopeless and helpless at the plate, send him down to straighten himself out. Maybe that will wake him up. He needs a wake up call. And if he can't hit at AAA, what does that tell you?

[MnSoxFan]

Do not think you can send down Konerko without losing him to Free Agency, too many years in the majors to allow us to option him (given that he has/had any options left)

[idseer]

regarding colon ... i'll say the same thing i said about him last year. no one is going to give up much of anything for him. he's a lame duck and will walk at the end of this season and everyone knows it. that's why the sox got him for next to nothing. in fact he probably went for more last year (because he had a full year left on his contract) than he will this year. why should anyone give up much for a guy who's going to be REALLY expensive after this season? give up a starter AND valuable prospects for someone they can have a shot at next year without losing anyone? i don't think so.

it's a dream to think he has trade value for the sox.

 

 

he's a rental and nothing more.

[whitesox61382]

Quote:

A deal like Borchard, their choice between Miles/Hummel/Harris, and a marginal pitching prospect should be a pretty fair deal and enough to land Beltran.

 

JUGGERNAUT:

Ideas like this are very nice, until you remember who owns the team.

Essentially any & all of your great trade ideas have to fit under a self-imposed salary cap by JR of 60mil. That's the highest he would ever be willing to fork over in contracts beyond 1 yr. He might go as high as 70mil for a single yr, but never beyond 60mil avg over 3 yrs.

 

With that in mind, here's the reality:

1)  The SOX will pick up the 4mil option for E-LO.

 

2)  Lee will be re-signed for about 5-6mil/yr for 3 yr. The potential+performance for the price makes Lee a good asset.

 

3)  Val will be resigned for another yr at about 3mil. He is pretty solid vs RH (845 OPS) & there's no team in the league that will try him at SS any more, so I think the SOX can make use of him at 1B.  His switch hitting days are over.  He'll either remain a LH power bat, or he'll sit on the bench.

 

4) Konerko will be traded.  I think the backlash vs him is huge.  Being the slowest player on what is perceived as a slow team makes this a near certainty.

 

4) will offset 2)&3).  1) Is a +4mil.

 

5) Maggs will be traded.  I could see Maggs going to Cincy for a pkg of slugger(s) either ML or ml.  It could very well include Griffey. Whatever the pkg it will cost the SOX about 10mil/yr.  Tops.  Offsetting the +4 to keep E-LO.

 

6) The SOX will try again to re-sign MB.  If they can't, then they will have to decide between Colon & MB. The one thing about Colon, is that his downside is FAR better than any pitcher the SOX have had in recent memory. In otherwords, there is no better investment in pitching than Colon.  Even if you find down the road you can't afford him, he will always land a nice pkg in talent. It was sure luck & Yankee assets that landed the SOX colon for spare parts.  It would be very foolish of the SOX to not capitalize on that long term. If I can only have 1, I'll take Colon.

The net effect of 6) will be +7-11mil. That would exceed the budget.

 

7) Thomas jumps to 6mil.  +1mil. No one will want him now. His futility all but guarantees him another year with the CWS.

 

8) Garland, Koch, Marte, Glover will all cost the SOX an extra mil a pc.  Maybe more.  +5-6mil to keep them all.  That would now push the payroll to +18mil or 70mil.  That's not going to happen. The decision to keep Colon or Beurhle will cost the SOX likely Koch & Glover.

 

As you can see, being the GM of the SOX is a thankless & brutal job of bookkeeping more so than managing talent.

I realize that the Sox are strapped for cash or at least we are made to believe so. In my fantasy world these are the moves that I would make and if my math is somewhat accurate it would equal out to a payroll slightly over 60 million, which should be doable if JR is really dedicated to putting together a winning team(although I question if he is).

 

1) Trade Borchard, KC's pick of Miles/Hummel/Harris, and a marginal pitching prospect for Beltran.

 

2) Sign Beltran to a long term deal in the range of about 5 years for 10 m/yr. One of the top young CF in the game is worth an investment like this.

 

3) Resign Colon for about 4 years 12 m/yr. Quality starters are hard to come by.

 

4) Trade Konerko and get whatever you can. Wait till he heats up a little to raise his value.

 

5) Get rid of Thomas. Trade him or don't resign him. I am sure not many teams would be interested in him(maybe none besides Baltimore).

 

6) Let Valentin go after this season. Its nice to have a SS that can hit 20+ HR's, but when that is the only thing he does well and he is going to be on the wrong side of 32 it isnt worth 5 m/yr for a player like that.

 

7) Pick up Loaiza's extention for next year. If he continues to pitch well and finishes the year with a sub-4.50 ERA. Its nice to have a solid veteran in the rotation considering the Sox are struggling to develop young pitchers.

 

8) Release White. There is no reason this guy should be on the team. Ginter is having a solid year at AAA and has a better future with the Sox.

 

9) Trade Glover. You wont get much for, but it should free up some space in the pen. His numbers arent good enough for a solid reliever.

 

10) Possible trade Wunsch if a good offer is on the table. The Sox have a very deep minor league system when it comes to relievers, especially from the left side.

 

11) Resign Gordon. Since the 1st week he has probably been the most dominating reliever and I am a firm believe that a good bullpen is one of the major keys to sucess.

 

12) Resign Daubach simply as a backup plan with Konerko and Thomas gone. He is a much cheaper option and has hit 20+ HR's the last 4 years and is usually a consistant .800 OPS guy when given everyday playing time.

 

13) Have Miles/Hummel/Harris(the two that arent involved in the Beltran trade) fight for the 2nd base job and move Jimenez to SS. At least give the kid a shot there. He came up as a SS, is a decent athlete, and the only sample size to judge him on in the majors was during his rookie year(almost all rookies/youngsters struggle defensively in their 1st couple of years).

 

If the Sox do these moves they should be able to put a more talented team on the future, mostly adding by subtracting some of the deadweight. If you include some of the raises that player eligible for arbitration and Maggs gets it should equal out to a very talented team and improved in most aspects(no longer one dimensional and prone for long term slumps because when the players arent hitting they offer other things like speed and defense) and a payroll slightly over 60 million. The lineup would like somewhat like this.

 

SS Jimenez

LF Reed(by the AS break next year)

RF Maggs

CF Beltran

DH Lee

1B Daubach(or other option Gload/prospect received in a trade/cheap FA)

3B Crede

C Olivo

2B Miles/Hummel/Harris

 

LH Buehrle

RH Colon

RH Loaiza

RH Garland/Wright/Rauch/Diaz/LH Stewart/ LH Cotts(2 of the following in the final two spots)

 

RH Koch

LH Marte

LH Ring

LH Munoz

RH Gordon

RH Ginter

 

The team would be better defensively with Beltran in CF and Reed in LF(a natural CF). The 2 of them should be able to cover a ton of ground and might develop into the 3rd best 1-2 combination defensively in the outfield(behind Cameron/Ichiro and Hunter/Jones). Jimenez at SS cant be much worse than Valentin and if Harris wins the 2nd base job he is very solid defensively. Not to mention the likely improvement from Crede and Olivo. The team also has much more speed with Beltran, Harris(if he wins the spot), and Reed being 20+ threats to add to players like Maggs, Lee, Jimenez, and Olivo who have solid speed as well. The lineup still has good power with Maggs, Beltran, Lee, Crede, and Daubach all capable of hitting 20+ HR's. It also adds some contact hitters with solid plate disipline(Reed, Beltran, and Hummel(if he wins the spot)). This is what I would do if I ran the team. Sorry for the length, but my dream about being GM is now over.

[southsider2k5]

Dude you realize that all 3 of your first points would get you laughed at.

 

KC wants a 3B, 2B and a CF for Beltran. One of them has to be a cheap young star, two have to be huge prospects.

 

Beltran wants 8 years at $15 mil per. Boras is his agent He isn't signing in Chicago or for $50mil.

 

Colon is going to look for something much longer than 4 years. The per year might even be a little low depending on the Yankee effect of how many of their pitchers retire or leave, and how much they spend to replace them.

 

Thomas can't be released, he has a dual option that we have to pay to get rid of him. He has a series of 4 one year contracts already signed.

 

Jimenez at SS would be worse than Valentin. He has a lesser arm, less range, no work ethic, and a propensity to make the routine plays interesting.

[whitesox61382]

Dude you realize that all 3 of your first points would get you laughed at. 

 

KC wants a 3B, 2B and a CF for Beltran.  One of them has to be a cheap young star, two have to be huge prospects.

 

Beltran wants 8 years at $15 mil per.  Boras is his agent  He isn't signing in Chicago or for $50mil.

 

Colon is going to look for something much longer than 4 years.  The per year might even be a little low depending on the Yankee effect of how many of their pitchers retire or leave, and how much they spend to replace them.

 

Thomas can't be released, he has a dual option that we have to pay to get rid of him.  He has a series of 4 one year contracts already signed.

 

Jimenez at SS would be worse than Valentin.  He has a lesser arm, less range, no work ethic, and a propensity to make the routine plays interesting.

No they wouldnt. KC gets their choise of Miles/Hummel/Harris. While none of these guys are top prospects they all offer something solid, have consistantly put up good numbers in the minors, and are ready to contribute at the majors(something I believe is important because KC is looking to contend in the very near future). I am sure that they would be happy with one of them. They would also get one of the top offensive prospects in the game. A guy capable of playing CF and has the potential to match and maybe even surpass Beltran's offensive production. Throw in a pitching prospect like a Diaz who is ready to contrbute. Even though KC has some solid young adds I am sure that they would love to add another solid arm. I most certainly think KC would ponder such a deal. They get 3 young players, who cost next to nothing, are ready to start everyday in the majors, and fill weaknesses. The Sox gave up far less for Colon when he was entering his FA year, so why would this be a joke. If the Sox can get a front of the rotation starter like Colon for a bunch of scrubs like Biddle, Liefer, Osuna, and a career minor leaguer then they can certainly get Beltran for Borchard, Miles/Hummel/Harris, and Diaz(for example). I think you are overestimating the value of potential FA's heading for big contracts in the near future. The potential offers that I have heard from others team is far less then this offer, including some teams only giving up 1 top prospect. This deal would give them that and then some.

 

8 years for 15 million, now that is funny. He will get nowhere near those kind of numbers, and when he does sign his next deal I am going to hold you to those numbers southside just to show you who will get laughed at. I dont care who his agent is, owners are showing no love to Boras and it has shown with the prospects that he represents in the draft. If you didnt notice FA prices went DOWN this past offseason(possible because of the new luxery tax). I have a feeling that salaries have top off for the next couple of years. The most I think Beltran will get is 12 m/yr, which is double his current salary. Southside you need a better understanding of the current market before you throw out numbers like 15 m/yr over 8 years(he will not get an 8 year deal either). Come to think of it how many players in the majors have 8 years deal? I cant think of any. No team is willing to make that kind of commitment.

 

Colon might want more than 4 years, but he wont be likely to get it. Not many teams like to invest 5+ years in a pitcher over 30 with the workload that he has had. That just happened to be a random number off the top of my head that seemed fair. How would that be laughed at?

 

Once again I think you are overexaggerating and if you actually sat down to analysis my 1st 3 ideas with what has happened on the baseball market over the past couple of years, instead of speaking the 1st things that come to mind, you will realize that they are pretty fair ideas. Although it will never happen in real life.

 

That sucks with Thomas. I didnt know the exact terms on his new contract. Why would the Sox offer him such a contract? Its obvious that he isnt the same player that he was and is only holding this team down financially.

 

How do you know Jimenez would be worse than Valentin at SS? Lesser range? Once again I think you overestimate Valentin's range. It isnt as great as most people make it out to be and at 32 he has lost a step or two, so I think saying Jimenez has less range than Valentin is very debatable but certainly not a fact either way. No work ethic? Once again this is speculation. The same speculation that tells you Valentin is a goo leader although you really have no way of proving it. At times he does appear lazy, but that doesnt nessarily mean that he has no work ethic. Routine plays made interesting at SS? I think that already happens on a daily basis with Jose "30+ errors" Valentin. The majority of his errors are own routine plays. From what I have seen from Jimenez he makes a lot of errors trying to force the issue, ie hurrying a throw in an attempt to turn 2. Its worth a shot and you really cant make judegements until you have seen him play there on a consistant basis(his rookie year doesnt really count since all young players struggle defensively).

[witesoxfan]

Dude you realize that all 3 of your first points would get you laughed at. 

 

KC wants a 3B, 2B and a CF for Beltran.  One of them has to be a cheap young star, two have to be huge prospects.

 

Beltran wants 8 years at $15 mil per.  Boras is his agent  He isn't signing in Chicago or for $50mil.

 

Colon is going to look for something much longer than 4 years.  The per year might even be a little low depending on the Yankee effect of how many of their pitchers retire or leave, and how much they spend to replace them.

 

Thomas can't be released, he has a dual option that we have to pay to get rid of him.  He has a series of 4 one year contracts already signed.

 

Jimenez at SS would be worse than Valentin.  He has a lesser arm, less range, no work ethic, and a propensity to make the routine plays interesting.

Agreed.

 

I presonally feel that we should sign Colon to a 5 year deal, with an option for the 6th....5-years, 60 mill seems about right in my book....with the option being worth $14-$16 mill.

 

Also, if we look to just retool(because rebuilding, IMO, is not necessary....I personally believe we could be an 85-win team as early as next year, and competing heavily as early as 2005), then there is no point in trading for Beltran(though signing Cruz in the offseason would make this team look so much better), especially if we have to give up Jimenez, Hummel, and Reed....I don't mind Jimenez and Hummel as much....but Reed alone is too damn much.

 

Also...if we can find someone to take Konerko....then I'm fine with keeping Thomas. One or the other has to go...and at this point, you gotta figure that, even though he is way overpaid, Konerko has more value. I'm still for trading him to Baltimore and taking on some of his salary....maybe $3 mill a year. It's OK, IMO, to have one player that slow on your team....but not two. If we can get 1-2 solid prospects for Konerko at this point....and they can become solid major league players....I am all for it.

 

Also....if we want to retool....either Lee or Maggs has to be traded for some stud pitchers. I know Cinci wants some good, young starting pitching....and Oakland(though I hate to even bring Oakland into the picture because of Beane) could use a cheap young slugger....IMO....here is one thing we could do.

 

Trade Maggs to Cinci, then Cinci trades Dunn or Kearns to Oakland, Oakland gives us that Harden kid, Cinci gets Harang, we give Oakland Garland, and Cinci gives us Dempster(to see if we can fix his problem, whatever the hell it is)

 

Oakland's then has an OF of Byrnes-Singleton-Dunn/Kearns from left to right, our OF is Lee-Rowand-Borchard from left to right(note: Rowand is only in CF until Reed is ready...and we then try to keep Lee for another year or two until Webster is ready, at which time we move Reed to LF...and our OF is Reed-Webster-Borchard from left to right). Our rotation is Colon, Buehrle, Loaiza, Harden, and then one of Dempster, Rauch, Stewart, or someone else(maybe Arnie Munoz?). Cincinatti's OF from left to right is Kearns-Griffey-Maggs, and they can then trade Guillen anywhere where they could get some young pitching from(possibly Tampa, Detroit, Milwaukee, or some other crappy team like that that needs a little offensive help)....and Cinci's rotation is whatever it is now with Harang inserted into Dempster's spot.

 

Our lineup could then be f***ed around with....you could have Jimenez, Lee, Thomas, Borchard, Crede, Daubach, Valentin(or whoever the SS is), Olivo, Rowand....or some s*** like that. I just feel that if that became our rotation....we'd have a killer rotation for years to come(whether or not Dempster does come out of his year and a half long funk....because we then still have Rauch and Wright to use as well).

 

If Dempster/Rauch work out in the rotation, I then move Wright to the bullpen and groom him to be a closer. Our bullpen is then Koch, Wright, Marte, Sanders, Ginter, Glover for next year....maybe have Majewski or Almonte come up as well.

 

We don't have Manuel as manager; instead, Wally Backman is making the calls. And, in a perfect world, Von Joshua would be back as hitting coach.

 

 

You know what scares me the most out of this whole f***ing retooling thing? One Chicago team is actually going in the right direction, and that team didn't just change the name of their stadium.

 

You figure out who I'm talking about.

[Jim Fainter]

TO: MnSox: We both discussed Konerko. I'm not positive of the rule defining whether or not you can send a veteran to the minors. PK now has 4 full seasons (99-02) and parts of three others (97-98, and 03 to date). I think he can be sent down, although his salary must be paid. I still think this makes sense, assuming he continues to flounder. If he b****es and doesn't report, you don't have to pay him. If he reports and gets his stroke back, no one loses. He is not helping us now.

 

Regarding Colon, someone said that we can't get much for him, because he is in the last few months of his contract. You might be right, but it wasn't long ago when Seattle traded Randy Johnson to Houston for Freddie Garcia, Guillen, and Halama. Randy went 10-1 and got them into the playoffs. If KW is shrewd enough to get a couple of teams to bid against each other for Bart, who knows? I would rather re-sign him to a long term contract, but I doubt if he is interested.

[whitesox61382]

Dude you realize that all 3 of your first points would get you laughed at. 

 

KC wants a 3B, 2B and a CF for Beltran.  One of them has to be a cheap young star, two have to be huge prospects.

 

Beltran wants 8 years at $15 mil per.  Boras is his agent  He isn't signing in Chicago or for $50mil.

 

Colon is going to look for something much longer than 4 years.  The per year might even be a little low depending on the Yankee effect of how many of their pitchers retire or leave, and how much they spend to replace them.

 

Thomas can't be released, he has a dual option that we have to pay to get rid of him.  He has a series of 4 one year contracts already signed.

 

Jimenez at SS would be worse than Valentin.  He has a lesser arm, less range, no work ethic, and a propensity to make the routine plays interesting.

Agreed.

 

I presonally feel that we should sign Colon to a 5 year deal, with an option for the 6th....5-years, 60 mill seems about right in my book....with the option being worth $14-$16 mill.

 

Also, if we look to just retool(because rebuilding, IMO, is not necessary....I personally believe we could be an 85-win team as early as next year, and competing heavily as early as 2005), then there is no point in trading for Beltran(though signing Cruz in the offseason would make this team look so much better), especially if we have to give up Jimenez, Hummel, and Reed....I don't mind Jimenez and Hummel as much....but Reed alone is too damn much.

 

Also...if we can find someone to take Konerko....then I'm fine with keeping Thomas. One or the other has to go...and at this point, you gotta figure that, even though he is way overpaid, Konerko has more value. I'm still for trading him to Baltimore and taking on some of his salary....maybe $3 mill a year. It's OK, IMO, to have one player that slow on your team....but not two. If we can get 1-2 solid prospects for Konerko at this point....and they can become solid major league players....I am all for it.

 

Also....if we want to retool....either Lee or Maggs has to be traded for some stud pitchers. I know Cinci wants some good, young starting pitching....and Oakland(though I hate to even bring Oakland into the picture because of Beane) could use a cheap young slugger....IMO....here is one thing we could do.

 

Trade Maggs to Cinci, then Cinci trades Dunn or Kearns to Oakland, Oakland gives us that Harden kid, Cinci gets Harang, we give Oakland Garland, and Cinci gives us Dempster(to see if we can fix his problem, whatever the hell it is)

 

Oakland's then has an OF of Byrnes-Singleton-Dunn/Kearns from left to right, our OF is Lee-Rowand-Borchard from left to right(note: Rowand is only in CF until Reed is ready...and we then try to keep Lee for another year or two until Webster is ready, at which time we move Reed to LF...and our OF is Reed-Webster-Borchard from left to right). Our rotation is Colon, Buehrle, Loaiza, Harden, and then one of Dempster, Rauch, Stewart, or someone else(maybe Arnie Munoz?). Cincinatti's OF from left to right is Kearns-Griffey-Maggs, and they can then trade Guillen anywhere where they could get some young pitching from(possibly Tampa, Detroit, Milwaukee, or some other crappy team like that that needs a little offensive help)....and Cinci's rotation is whatever it is now with Harang inserted into Dempster's spot.

 

Our lineup could then be f***ed around with....you could have Jimenez, Lee, Thomas, Borchard, Crede, Daubach, Valentin(or whoever the SS is), Olivo, Rowand....or some s*** like that. I just feel that if that became our rotation....we'd have a killer rotation for years to come(whether or not Dempster does come out of his year and a half long funk....because we then still have Rauch and Wright to use as well).

 

If Dempster/Rauch work out in the rotation, I then move Wright to the bullpen and groom him to be a closer. Our bullpen is then Koch, Wright, Marte, Sanders, Ginter, Glover for next year....maybe have Majewski or Almonte come up as well.

 

We don't have Manuel as manager; instead, Wally Backman is making the calls. And, in a perfect world, Von Joshua would be back as hitting coach.

 

 

You know what scares me the most out of this whole f***ing retooling thing? One Chicago team is actually going in the right direction, and that team didn't just change the name of their stadium.

 

You figure out who I'm talking about.

I dont know if a 5 year deal, with an option for a 6th is a good idea with a pitcher on the wrong side of 30 and with the workload that he has had. I am a huge Colon fan and wish that the Sox would resign him, but anything more than a 4 year deal gets risky.

 

The Sox haven't had a great defensive CF(outfielder for that matter) in a long time. Even though on paper Minnesota might not be quite as talented as the Sox they win with a defensive that takes away outs. Hunter and Jones probably get to 3 or 4 more balls during a week compared to the Sox outfield. That could be the difference in a game a week. It would be nice to have an outfield that could do the same thing and I think with Beltran in CF and Reed in LF it could happen. Why not trade and sing Beltran? The guy is one of the top young CF's in the game and player that you can build a team around. He is the oppisite of the one dimension players that plague the current offensive roster. He does all of the 5 tools average or better. I just think it would be a great addition and something to build aroung in the retooling process. I also think this team should retool and not rebuild. There is enough young talent on the current roster to build around and contend with if some of the right pieces are added. If you look at my purposed 2004 roster it is a team built to contend that year and in the future with some retooling. I think my trade purposal is a fair deal for Beltran. I think the situtation is very similar to the Colon deal and in my purposed deal the Sox would be giving up much more while filling some of the KC needs. I am a huge fan of Reed and would rather trade Borchard then Reed.

 

I would love to get rid of both Thomas and Konerko, but that will be hard to do. I wish the Sox could get out of their contract with Thomas this offseason.

 

Maggs and Garland for Harden and Dempster? Are you on crack? Have you seen Dempster of late? You want to give up one of the top RF's in the game and a young pitcher(who is starting to pitch better) for a guy that doesnt belong in the majors(Dempster) and a pitching prospect that hasn't even stepped foot onto a major league field. No thanks. Ideas like that is why guys like you and me aren't GM's.

[CWSOX45]

Dude you realize that all 3 of your first points would get you laughed at. 

 

KC wants a 3B, 2B and a CF for Beltran.  One of them has to be a cheap young star, two have to be huge prospects.

 

Beltran wants 8 years at $15 mil per.  Boras is his agent  He isn't signing in Chicago or for $50mil.

 

Colon is going to look for something much longer than 4 years.  The per year might even be a little low depending on the Yankee effect of how many of their pitchers retire or leave, and how much they spend to replace them.

 

Thomas can't be released, he has a dual option that we have to pay to get rid of him.  He has a series of 4 one year contracts already signed.

 

Jimenez at SS would be worse than Valentin.  He has a lesser arm, less range, no work ethic, and a propensity to make the routine plays interesting.

Agreed.

 

I presonally feel that we should sign Colon to a 5 year deal, with an option for the 6th....5-years, 60 mill seems about right in my book....with the option being worth $14-$16 mill.

 

Also, if we look to just retool(because rebuilding, IMO, is not necessary....I personally believe we could be an 85-win team as early as next year, and competing heavily as early as 2005), then there is no point in trading for Beltran(though signing Cruz in the offseason would make this team look so much better), especially if we have to give up Jimenez, Hummel, and Reed....I don't mind Jimenez and Hummel as much....but Reed alone is too damn much.

 

Also...if we can find someone to take Konerko....then I'm fine with keeping Thomas. One or the other has to go...and at this point, you gotta figure that, even though he is way overpaid, Konerko has more value. I'm still for trading him to Baltimore and taking on some of his salary....maybe $3 mill a year. It's OK, IMO, to have one player that slow on your team....but not two. If we can get 1-2 solid prospects for Konerko at this point....and they can become solid major league players....I am all for it.

 

Also....if we want to retool....either Lee or Maggs has to be traded for some stud pitchers. I know Cinci wants some good, young starting pitching....and Oakland(though I hate to even bring Oakland into the picture because of Beane) could use a cheap young slugger....IMO....here is one thing we could do.

 

Trade Maggs to Cinci, then Cinci trades Dunn or Kearns to Oakland, Oakland gives us that Harden kid, Cinci gets Harang, we give Oakland Garland, and Cinci gives us Dempster(to see if we can fix his problem, whatever the hell it is)

 

Oakland's then has an OF of Byrnes-Singleton-Dunn/Kearns from left to right, our OF is Lee-Rowand-Borchard from left to right(note: Rowand is only in CF until Reed is ready...and we then try to keep Lee for another year or two until Webster is ready, at which time we move Reed to LF...and our OF is Reed-Webster-Borchard from left to right). Our rotation is Colon, Buehrle, Loaiza, Harden, and then one of Dempster, Rauch, Stewart, or someone else(maybe Arnie Munoz?). Cincinatti's OF from left to right is Kearns-Griffey-Maggs, and they can then trade Guillen anywhere where they could get some young pitching from(possibly Tampa, Detroit, Milwaukee, or some other crappy team like that that needs a little offensive help)....and Cinci's rotation is whatever it is now with Harang inserted into Dempster's spot.

 

Our lineup could then be f***ed around with....you could have Jimenez, Lee, Thomas, Borchard, Crede, Daubach, Valentin(or whoever the SS is), Olivo, Rowand....or some s*** like that. I just feel that if that became our rotation....we'd have a killer rotation for years to come(whether or not Dempster does come out of his year and a half long funk....because we then still have Rauch and Wright to use as well).

 

If Dempster/Rauch work out in the rotation, I then move Wright to the bullpen and groom him to be a closer. Our bullpen is then Koch, Wright, Marte, Sanders, Ginter, Glover for next year....maybe have Majewski or Almonte come up as well.

 

We don't have Manuel as manager; instead, Wally Backman is making the calls. And, in a perfect world, Von Joshua would be back as hitting coach.

 

 

You know what scares me the most out of this whole f***ing retooling thing? One Chicago team is actually going in the right direction, and that team didn't just change the name of their stadium.

 

You figure out who I'm talking about.

WSF. There is no way in hell that Bean would even consider dealing Harden. Harden has the potential to be one of the greatest pitchers to ever play the game. Bean has always focused on pitching and defense to create a great team. There are a couple of other kids in that farm system that are looking impressive one being Shane Komite, who was just called up to AA from Kane County last week.

 

I don't feel comfortable dealing with Oakland, especially if Kenny Williams is our GM.

 

CWSOX45

[witesoxfan]

LMFAO....

 

In one post, I get the s*** ripped out of me for even considering trading Maggs for a minor leaguer and a guy who has struggled big time over the last two years, and in the next post, I get the s*** ripped out of me because Beane probably won't give up Harden no matter what.

 

I don't even know what to say....LOL

[southsider2k5]

LMFAO....

 

In one post, I get the s*** ripped out of me for even considering trading Maggs for a minor leaguer and a guy who has struggled big time over the last two years, and in the next post, I get the s*** ripped out of me because Beane probably won't give up Harden no matter what.

 

I don't even know what to say....LOL 

Does it really matter, you'll just get ripped for it anyway

[CWSOX45]

LMFAO....

 

In one post, I get the s*** ripped out of me for even considering trading Maggs for a minor leaguer and a guy who has struggled big time over the last two years, and in the next post, I get the s*** ripped out of me because Beane probably won't give up Harden no matter what.

 

I don't even know what to say....LOL 

I wasn't really ripping the s*** out of you, lol. I just said I didn't think it would happen.

 

CWSOX45

[witesoxfan]

LMFAO....

 

In one post, I get the s*** ripped out of me for even considering trading Maggs for a minor leaguer and a guy who has struggled big time over the last two years, and in the next post, I get the s*** ripped out of me because Beane probably won't give up Harden no matter what.

 

I don't even know what to say....LOL 

I wasn't really ripping the s*** out of you, lol. I just said I didn't think it would happen.

 

CWSOX45

I know....I just find it funny that I say one thing and get to posts in a row disagreeing with me, both with different ideas.

 

Ripping the s*** out of me probably wasn't the right terminology...but I still find it funny that I say one thing and get two totally different responses.

 

I still think that'd be the s*** to get Harden and Dempster....and it's not like Dempster would be our ace either....he'd be more try and see how he does kind of guy. He most likely would suck ass....but if Harden comes in and is just as dominant or is more dominant then Mark Prior....no, f*** it....it wouldn't matter.

 

Harden could throw a perfect game and Prior could win a game where he gave up 15 runs in 1 inning out of relief and he'd still get more coverage then Harden, because he's Boy Wonder.

[1549]

I would be willing to bet my life, that Juan Rivera will become a better player than Carlos.

 

I would say Rivera will put up a few .320 35 130 seasons

 

Lee will get better than he is now, but never great. I say he will become the player he was in 2000.

.295 30 100

 

It would be great to have both, but I would rather have this lineup.

 

1) Jimenez (2B)

2) Mora (CF)

3) Thomas (DH)

4) Ordonez (RF)

5) Rivera (LF)

6) Konerko (1B)

7) Crede (3B)

8) Alomar/Olivo ©

9) Almonte (SS)