NCAA Refs/Gambling/Fixes

[Dick Allen]

Although there was a huge difference in free throws in both the Indiana and Illinois games, I think thinking a fix may be on, or that the officials cost each of these teams the game is a stretch. Indiana was hoisting up 3's and fouling. They had a game in the Big Ten this year where they didn't shoot a free throw at all until about 5 minutes was left in the game. When Killingsworth got a T, the replay showed an obvious foul.Indiana also had 3 lay-ups in the little over a half of the game I saw that didn't even graze rim. Illinois had an 11 point lead, which they blew. They didn't execute offensively and threw the ball away a lot. I think it was wharris1 who mentioned the officiating during the Big Ten season, and I think he has a good point. For as long as I can remember the Big Ten has been very physical and officials let you get away with a lot more than what you would be able to get away with in other conferences. Considering the Big Ten is usually a flop in the tournament, there obviously have been exceptions, I wonder if the loose way games are called during conference play hurts Big Ten teams when its tournament time.

Edited March 19, 2006 by Dick Allen

[Spiff]

Oh yes the game was fixed, we all know how much America wants to see those Washington Huskies succeed. What we have here is a scandal the likes of which haven't been seen since Watergate, and it was discovered by none other than soxtalk itself. Let's launch the investigation; I want subcommittees, I want hearings, I want accountability.

[whitesoxfan101]

Oh yes the game was fixed, we all know how much America wants to see those Washington Huskies succeed.  What we have here is a scandal the likes of which haven't been seen since Watergate, and it was discovered by none other than soxtalk itself.  Let's launch the investigation; I want subcommittees, I want hearings, I want accountability.

 

You don't seem to understand that gambling goes beyond what teams have the most prestige, and what matchups CBS thinks they can promote.

[Spiff]

You don't seem to understand that gambling goes beyond what teams have the most prestige, and what matchups CBS thinks they can promote.

 

And you don't seem to understand how rare and difficult it is for a fix to happen. Illinois lost, plain and simple. To come around ranting about fixes and garbage like that makes you look like one of those tinfoil hat-wearing lunatics who claims to have been abducted by aliens. Or at the very least, a sore loser. I'd wager anything that the action on this game was pretty damn close to 50/50 anyway, so what the hell would be the point of fixing it? It's not like Washington was the 12 seed. They were the 5, and the game was in San Diego. Illinois wasn't heavily favored at all.

[greasywheels121]

As for the other games, I generally agree that Gonzaga and Duke get a lot of favorable calls, but at least in this game Mallon was a big factor inside. It's also hard to argue for Indiana when they jacked up 36 3's, which was over half their shots.

 

The refs put us into that though; I understand you won't get calls without going inside. Indiana does shoot a lot of three's, but by no stretch did we want to shoot 30+. We've been using the inside a lot more in the recent stretch of good play in the last month. We didn't get any calls when we did go inside, just ridiculous and invisible over-the-backs and elbows called against us. I just could not understand what was being called on the offensive side, and there were so many invisible fouls away from the basket for breathing on them the wrong way. There's no stopping that.

[greasywheels121]

What are refs going to do when Duke and Duke West meet in the Final Four?

 

Are they going to call a foul every possible second, because that's what that team is used to getting called on their opponent. Or will they swallow their whistles?

[aboz56]

Blaming the refs is the worst excuse ever.

 

Just play the damn game and shut up.

 

You can argue calls get messed up, but its just the worst cop out ever.

 

I definitely wouldn't blame the refs for any action I saw personally yesterday, but I only saw the IU game and the very end of the ILL game which they had a chance to win but just didn't get it done from what I saw.

 

I know there a lot of emotions involved from fans when their team loses...Bottom line in the IU game is that IU was not aggressive going to the basket. It's hard to get calls when you are just jacking up 3's all game. Had anyone had the idea of taking it to Batista and getting into the lane, the game could have been totally different. Instead IU settled for the 3 and didn't expose Gonzaga's weak defense.

 

I mean just take the loss and get over it. It's stupid to even have this debate because nothing comes out of it.

 

What does this accomplish?

Edited March 19, 2006 by aboz56

[WHarris1]

Adjust to the way the game is being called. Iowa got out physicaled on Friday, and I wasn't complaining about the refs.

No, I have a feeling they did not call 6 hand checks outside the 3 pt line.

 

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And it's really easy for people that are not fans of Illinois or Indiana to just defend the refs and say it's a s***ty excuse, but if your team was involved in a game when your premier defender was not allowed to defend another teams star player you would be pissed too.

 

But a debate about the refs is worthless because the people complaining about refs will be called homers, and the people that weren't fans of either team in the game will defend the refs. No point for this to continue.

Edited March 19, 2006 by WHarris1

[Buehrle>Wood]

I just find it odd that one of the more infamous refs ever, Doug Shows, was doing the game. Soon as I heard he was doing it priot to the game, I knew something was or will be up. I mean, come on. What does guy like Shows have a job for in the first place, let alone a key NCAA tournament game. How does the NCAA validate him reffing this when the ACC has banned him from ever reffing an ACC game again and had a very public run-in with the SEC just this year. There is absolutly no reason to explain him doing this game.

 

 

I don't even like Illinois much, but that is just ridiculous. Shows shouldn't even have a job and hopefully won't after this debacle.

[Buehrle>Wood]

What does this accomplish?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe finally gettting the NCAA to notice that their reffing program needs a definite overhaul in all aspects of the game.

 

 

But no, I guess we should all just sit back and continually let games decided by referees.

[aboz56]

Mike Davis: "I thought it was a great officiated game. We just shot a lot of three's. They went inside and we fouled them. I was really pleased with the officiating."

[Buehrle>Wood]

Mike Davis: "I thought it was a great officiated game.  We just shot a lot of three's.  They went inside and we fouled them.  I was really pleased with the officiating."

And?

[fathom]

No, I have a feeling they did not call 6 hand checks outside the 3 pt line.

 

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And it's really easy for people that are not fans of Illinois or Indiana to just defend the refs and say it's a s***ty excuse, but if your team was involved in a game when your premier defender was not allowed to defend another teams star player you would be pissed too.

 

But a debate about the refs is worthless because the people complaining about refs will be called homers, and the people that weren't fans of either team in the game will defend the refs.  No point for this to continue.

 

Based on the FT disparity alone, Illini fans have every right to complain about the refs. I didn't think they were great last night, and they did help UW get back into the game. However, the Illini have struggled all year picking up reach-in fouls because too many of their players don't move their feet on defense (Randle is the prime example of this). I just don't understand why Illinois didn't attack the basket more in the last 6 minutes of the game. Weber had to see the way they were calling things, and I really hope he didn't think that passing the ball around the perimeter was the best game plan. Too many games this year, he went to the stall game too early. It cost him the Penn St. game, and it cost him yesterday.

 

Again, I have no problem with people getting upset with the refs. It's when comments about the game being fixed are made that I think people are taking their frustrations to the extreme. And yes, the NCAA would have much rather seen UCONN vs Illinois.

[WilliamTell]

What are refs going to do when Duke and Duke West meet in the Final Four?

 

Are they going to call a foul every possible second, because that's what that team is used to getting called on their opponent.  Or will they swallow their whistles?

 

Gonzaga hasn't won anything, there's no need to call them Gonzaga West, I get what you're saying but still. Anyways Gonzaga won't be going to the Final Four so we won't see a matchup.

[Felix]

Gonzaga hasn't won anything, there's no need to call them Gonzaga West, I get what you're saying but still. Anyways Gonzaga won't be going to the Final Four so we won't see a matchup.

Duke West*

[Dick Allen]

Over half of Indiana's shots were 3 point attempts. You don't go to the line much playing that way. Gonzaga had about 1/6th 3 point attempts. Besides, the Hooisers didn't exactly fair well with the free throw attempts they were allotted. Read what Dee Brown had to say about the Illini, he said the Illini were hacking and not executing. He's not blaming their loss on officials. A fairly called basketball game doesn't have to end with similar free throw attempts.

[whitesoxfan101]

Mike Davis: "I thought it was a great officiated game.  We just shot a lot of three's.  They went inside and we fouled them.  I was really pleased with the officiating."

 

He's proven to be out of his mind all season, so him saying that does nothing to change my mind.

 

Also, fixing a game now is easier than ever since people like yourself are the majority and in denial that your precious games could possibly be dirty.

[fathom]

He's proven to be out of his mind all season, so him saying that does nothing to change my mind.

 

Also, fixing a game now is easier than ever since people like yourself are the majority and in denial that your precious games could possibly be dirty.

 

Fixing a game today is harder than ever. Games get so much more publicity now compared to 10 years ago, and everyone knows the point spread, etc. going into the game. Do people really know what it takes to fix a game? These games have been way too close lately for the "fix" to be in. I saw a couple of people state how they thought the refs tried to fix the Illini/AF game from Thursday. Um.....first of all, the refs would have never let Illinois get as big of a lead if they wanted to make sure AF didn't lose by 9.5. Second, how were the refs to know that Illinois would turn it over in the last minute, and that the Great Chester Frazier (this guy is terrible!) would miss his FT?

 

Like I said earlier, the refs would have never let U of I get a big lead over UW like they did. I know someone mentioned it's cause the Illini were playing so well that they got the big lead, but the refs really helped them out at the end of the first half with all the basket and the fouls.

[Rex Hudler]

No, I have a feeling they did not call 6 hand checks outside the 3 pt line.

 

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And it's really easy for people that are not fans of Illinois or Indiana to just defend the refs and say it's a s***ty excuse, but if your team was involved in a game when your premier defender was not allowed to defend another teams star player you would be pissed too.

 

But a debate about the refs is worthless because the people complaining about refs will be called homers, and the people that weren't fans of either team in the game will defend the refs.  No point for this to continue.

 

I'm as big of an IU fas as there is, and I am not blaming the refereeing on the loss last night. Gonzaga was just better. If IU didn't hit a barrage of 3's at the end, this would have been a 20-pt loss.

 

Morrison and Batista both had 3 fouls early in the 2nd half, but IU didn't go after them. They didn't take it to them trying to draw their 4th foul. You CANNOT look at the 41-6 difference in FT's and automatically make assumptions the game was called unfairly. Many of those 41 attempts came in the final few minutes when IU was chasing them. IU shot 25 threes in the 2nd half, which doesn't give many opportunities to pick up fouls.

 

Gonzaga had 9 steals in the game. They had countless offensive rebounds that were just back breaking for IU. It's hard enough to stop Gonzaga, but when you let them score on junk underneath from follow ups. How many times did IU slap the ball loose inside only to have a Gonzaga player come up with the ball and a basket?

 

IU gave a great effort and played pretty well, but by no means great. I'd much prefer to just give Gonzaga credit on handling IU without Morrison being at his normal level. All of this stuff about conspiracies is just crap. Referees don't make or miss shots. They don't get rebounds. The don't decide to chuck up a 3 rather than drive. They don't make a steal or lose the ball out of bounds on the dribble.

 

To even think the referees have that much control on the outcome of a game is laughable.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Fix or no fix, the NCAA and their stance on reffing is still an atrocity. Can anyone explain why Shows was placed on this specific game?

[fathom]

Fix or no fix, the NCAA and their stance on reffing is still an atrocity. Can anyone explain why Shows was placed on this specific game?

 

The refs have sucked in college basketball all season. Is this a surprise to anyone? The Illini game wasn't even one of the 5 worst I've seen all year. The two Duke-Fla St games were much worse in my opinion, as the refs basically handed Duke the first game, and FSU the 2nd game. The only legitimate game where the refs decided the outcome of the game was when they called a bulls*** over-the-back on a Ga Tech player with .5 seconds left in a tie game. The GT player had tipped the ball in, but it was negated, and Va Tech won on FT. That was the game in which the ACC told their officials afterwards that if they make a game-deciding call, it better be right.

[Buehrle>Wood]

The refs have sucked in college basketball all season. Is this a surprise to anyone?

 

That is my point fathom. Something needs to be done about it, but nothing will happen. The NCAA will continue to sit on its hands and do nothing about it.

[aboz56]

I'm as big of an IU fas as there is, and I am not blaming the refereeing on the loss last night.  Gonzaga was just better.  If IU didn't hit a barrage of 3's at the end, this would have been a 20-pt loss. 

 

Morrison and Batista both had 3 fouls early in the 2nd half, but IU didn't go after them.  They didn't take it to them trying to draw their 4th foul.  You CANNOT look at the 41-6 difference in FT's and automatically make assumptions the game was called unfairly.  Many of those 41 attempts came in the final few minutes when IU was chasing them.  IU shot 25 threes in the 2nd half, which doesn't give many opportunities to pick up fouls. 

 

Gonzaga had 9 steals in the game.  They had countless offensive rebounds that were just back breaking for IU.  It's hard enough to stop Gonzaga, but when you let them score on junk underneath from follow ups.  How many times did IU slap the ball loose inside only to have a Gonzaga player come up with the ball and a basket?

 

IU gave a great effort and played pretty well, but by no means great.  I'd much prefer to just give Gonzaga credit on handling IU without Morrison being at his normal level.  All of this stuff about conspiracies is just crap.  Referees don't make or miss shots.  They don't get rebounds.  The don't decide to chuck up a 3 rather than drive.  They don't make a steal or lose the ball out of bounds on the dribble. 

 

To even think the referees have that much control on the outcome of a game is laughable.

 

 

Finally a sensible approach.

 

[WilliamTell]

Duke West*

 

lol whoops, you know what I meant, haha.

[CWSGuy406]

Great post, Rex. I know it's tough that IU lost, but congrats on the stance you took on Gonzaga pre-tourney -- I thought IU would have their way with the Zags, and quite the opposite was true. I didn't see the game, but it's more impressive that Morrison, at one point, was like 3-of-15 from the field.

 

This thread, IMO, comes off as very whiney. But, if I was in the same position (ie Marquette getting the short stick with calls), I could see myself doing the same. Just, not as far as to say these games are being 'fixed'. Sheesh -- take a step back there...