Joe Borchard Traded to Seattle

[qwerty]

I'm guessing they're fake.

 

Well, atleast it fooled Jackie Hayes as well.   

 

Stats posted are from two years ago--not necessary unreasonable to question their legitimacy.

 

It's just from some random ootp league... which is a simulation.

[greg775]

I hope Joe plays well for Seattle. That would be wild if he and Reed are both

in the starting of.

Hopefully this lefty we got can throw strikes. We could have some smoke in the

pen with he and Jenks.

[jackie hayes]

Okay, I give up. I'm gonna use green on this site. Mostly I was just trying to close all the f'n popup windows. But I figured it was a sim of some sort. B/c it was much, much, much, MUCH better than any of the minor league stats I had seen.

[qwerty]

Okay, I give up.  I'm gonna use green on this site.  Mostly I was just trying to close all the f'n popup windows.  But I figured it was a sim of some sort.  B/c it was much, much, much, MUCH better than any of the minor league stats I had seen.

 

Weird that you are getting so many pop ups from it... expecially considering the version of netscape i use is a pretty old version...

[hi8is]

haha.. on the email notice from mlb.com... it says this next to a picture of thornton:

 

"buy a jersey"

 

BAWHAHAHAHHAHHA

[jackie hayes]

Weird that you are getting so many pop ups from it... expecially considering the version of netscape i use is a pretty old version...

It wasn't THAT many. Just 2, but since I started using Mozilla I hardly get any, so I get ticked easy now. So I flipped out and closed every window.

 

The NYT doesn't do me like that!

 

I should say, the NYT doesn't do me like that!

 

Or else Flash'll take me serious...

[RME JICO]

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews...ts/14147068.htm

 

Sox made a good call on Borchard

BY PHIL ROGERS

Chicago Tribune

 

TUCSON, Ariz. - You couldn't have blamed Duane Shaffer if he had hung up the phone or feigned taking an order for carryout, claiming there was no Duane Shaffer at this number.

 

After all, how would you like to explain how you had invested $5.3 million of your boss' money in a dry well?

 

But Shaffer, the White Sox's scouting director, doesn't believe he owes anyone an apology for Joe Borchard.

 

"If I had to do it over again, I would do it 10 more times," Shaffer said. "You don't come across athletes like Joe Borchard every day. If that's a mistake, I'd make it over and over and over again. He is what you look for."

 

Borchard, as of Monday morning, is also the newest Seattle Mariner. White Sox general manager Ken Williams traded him for left-hander Matt Thornton, the Mariners' first-round pick in the 1998 draft.

 

Until the Arizona Diamondbacks gave shortstop Justin Upton $6.1 million this winter, no amateur player had received a bigger bonus than the White Sox paid Borchard in the summer of 2000. He had the leverage to get that deal for two reasons: He was considered the best power hitter to come from college ball since Mark McGwire, and he was Stanford's starting quarterback.

 

Unfortunately, he never could cut down enough on his strikeouts to stay in the big leagues. He spent parts of the last four seasons at Triple-A Charlotte, and probably was headed back for a fifth if he had stayed in the Sox organization. He hit .191 with 12 home runs and 93 strikeouts in 298 major-league at-bats.

 

Shaffer never left his corner.

 

"Obviously I'm disappointed, no question about that," Shaffer said from California, where he was scouting a high school game. "But we've got to do what we've got to do. If (trading him) helped the club out, so be it. I wish he was still here, but Kenny needs to do what he has to do."

 

You can call Borchard a bust. You can criticize the White Sox for his failing to turn the corner. But the knee-jerk reaction misses the point.

 

That Borchard was in the Sox's system at all speaks highly of the organization's commitment to scouting and player development - the twin engines on which they won the 2005 World Series.

 

While Mark Buehrle, Aaron Rowand and Joe Crede were the only fully homegrown players on the postseason roster, the farm system Shaffer has fed players into for most of his 35 years with the organization supplied Williams and his predecessor, Ron Schueler, with the parts to trade.

 

It's to Jerry Reinsdorf's credit that he didn't back away from that commitment in the lean years after the 1994-95 strike and the `97 White Flag trade, when season tickets weren't a hot item. When he shed Albert Belle and made only a token effort to keep Robin Ventura after 1998, he increased the budget for signing amateurs.

 

The 2000 draft was the kind that makes scouting directors look bad. The Cubs had the third pick overall and came away with prep shortstop Luis Montanez, who was converted to the outfield and needed six years to climb to Double A. The Rockies took an infamous gamble on pitcher Matt Harrington with the seventh pick.

The White Sox picked 12th, and Borchard was still there only because 11 other teams didn't think they could sign him. The Cardinals, who had the 13th pick and the real Mark McGwire, were preparing to take the prospect known as "the next McGwire."

 

Borchard had his moments in the organization, during spring training and in the minor and major leagues. He homered in his second at-bat in the big leagues and blasted a 504-footer off the Phillies' Brett Myers in 2004, the longest by a White Sox player at U.S. Cellular Field. That was the season he got in 63 games, hitting .174 with nine home runs.

 

His best chance to stick with the Sox was probably in the spring of 2003, but he fouled a ball off his foot, breaking it. The next spring he lasted only four games before a pulled quadriceps muscle sidelined him.

 

"I want to say he didn't get an opportunity to play every day (in the big leagues) and get 500 at-bats under his belt," Shaffer said. "You can use any excuse you want to use, I guess. He just didn't pan out. I thought it was going to happen, and it just didn't happen."

 

Shaffer wonders what would have happened if Borchard had come along at a time when his managers could have taken a more patient approach.

 

"We were in contention most of the time, and it was tough for him to get a chance," he said. "I just wish it could have worked for him in Chicago. He could have been a big hero there because he's such a good person."

 

Borchard was definitely an expensive proposition for the White Sox. That doesn't mean he was an expensive mistake. The only sure thing in baseball is you never hit a home run with the bat on your shoulder.

[Dam8610]

2004 -- 30BB 65.1IP

2005 -- 29BB 60.1IP

 

His BB/IP actually went up.

 

Get that bum Cotts out of the pen!

[southsideirish71]

That's one hell of a September. When Williams suggest he's been following Thornton for awhile, it must have dated back to this specific time frame.

 

Three straight games of 10+ strikeouts against quality opponents is quite an accomplishment. It must have been maddening for Seattle fans/management to watch a pitcher with so much potential continually struggle with control. 

 

When the White Sox suggest (per whitesox.com) Cooper notices a mechanical flaw, you wonder what could it possibly be? And if it's so obvious to him from viewing video tape, how didn't Seattle's pitching instructors--with several seasons of interaction--notice it? If Cooper corrects any perceived flaws in Thornton's delivery and he actually improves, I'll jump aboard the "Cooper is a golden god" bandwagon. 

 

 

Remember Conteras was also listed as garbage. His mechanical flaw was fixed. This after having the Yanks go to all sorts of extremes to get his head and his mechanics fixed.

 

Sometimes a change of scenery and the right coach can fix things like this. If KW was truly after this guy for a few years based on Coop being convinced he can fix a mechanical flaw, then I say maybe he has the inside info.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Remember Conteras was also listed as garbage.  His mechanical flaw was fixed.  This after having the Yanks go to all sorts of extremes to get his head and his mechanics fixed. 

 

Sometimes a change of scenery and the right coach can fix things like this. If KW was truly after this guy for a few years based on Coop being convinced he can fix a mechanical flaw, then I say maybe he has the inside info.

 

I like your optimism. I hope you're right.

[southsideirish71]

I like your optimism.  I hope you're right.

 

 

Well I get a kick out of people who all of a sudden forget that Joe Borchard has pretty much sucked for a few years. Remember how many people were calling for KWs head when he sent Reed instead of Borchard for Freddy. Now that we finally have unloaded him, everyone is all of a sudden attached to him. His chance happened a few years back when Maggs went down. He came up and couldnt handle major league pitching. He had a terrible start last year. HE GONE!!!!

 

Now Thorton has a good arm, if Coop can fix him great, if he cant, we didnt lose anything. People act like we traded away something good.

[fathom]

I just wish we had a month worth of minor league work to get Thornton into the right frame of mind under Cooper.

[YASNY]

joe Borchard.

 

drew henson.

 

Chris Weinke

 

Josh Booty

 

Quncy Carter

 

Kenny Kelly.

How many football guys have to go bust before baseball folks figure out they're not going to make it to the big leagues because they miss too much developmental time in college?

 

That's $5 million of  Reinsdorf's cash out the window.

 

Thanks, Duane Shaffer.

 

You forgot a few. Kirk Gibson. Frank Thomas. Bo Jackson.

[Rowand44]

You forgot a few.  Kirk Gibson.  Frank Thomas.  Bo Jackson.

And what did they ever amount to?

Edited March 21, 2006 by Rowand44

[Gene Honda Civic]

DARIN ERSTAD!

[YASNY]

Just saying that, yeah, there's Henson, Borchard, etc.  But I'm not gonna write off Fields cuz of some supposed rule about football players playing baseball.  Bo could play, Deion...well, somewhat, and we had a pretty good Auburn tight end on our team.  There are tons of busts among top prospects.  It's not surprising that football stars bust like the rest of them.

 

I stand corrected.

[TLAK]

But most of the knowledgeable posters and people that followed Cotts in the minors knew that good things were going to come from him.... it was just a matter of time and experiance.

 

He was a much better prospect than this guy we got from Seattle.

The only question with Cotts was could he handle the big time. In ST 2004 there was a long debate here on whether he would be better served building up his confidence as a regular starter in Charlotte. Everone liked his stuff but the question was would he get tense and fold up? ---like he did in the famous 2003 Yankee Stadium start when Jerry Manuel basically threw to the dogs and he looked awful.

 

Ozzie kept him on the big team in 04 and never put him in a bad match up, building him up slowly while getting important outs for the team. Then getting him the hell out of there before something bad could happen. As 2004 unfolded and 2005 began you could just watch him grow. Now people don't even think about 'deer in the headlights' and he is used like the proven major leaguer he has become.

[Kyyle23]

You forgot a few.  Kirk Gibson.  Frank Thomas.  Bo Jackson.

 

 

Or Todd Helton

[Kyyle23]

The only question with Cotts was could he handle the big time.  In ST 2004 there was a long debate here on whether he would be better served building up his confidence as a regular starter in Charlotte.  Everone liked his stuff but the question was would he get tense and fold up? ---like he did in the famous 2003 Yankee Stadium start when Jerry Manuel basically threw to the dogs and he looked awful.

 

Ozzie kept him on the big team in 04 and never put him in a bad match up, building him up slowly while getting important outs for the team.  Then getting him the hell out of there before something bad could happen.  As 2004 unfolded and 2005 began you could just watch him grow.  Now people don't even think about 'deer in the headlights' and he is used like the proven major leaguer he has become.

 

 

I think his performance in the playoffs/World Series extinguished any doubt in my mind.

[Soxman72]

Borchard was a class act throughout this whole thing. I am happy to see him go because:

 

1. He was not going to become anything in a Sox uniform. He was not an Ozzie guy and was not going to make the team. He reminds me of Ben Grieve and will now float from team to team. I will wait and see what Coop can do with Thornton before I pass judgment on the kid. Sometimes a change of scenery and a new pitching coach can do wonders.

 

2. Borchard is a class act guy and never really b****ed about his situation. He did complain at times, but never really b****ed. He could have been an ego maniac, demanded a trade through the media, and b****ed every day until he got his trade. I hope he can stick with a team and one day become a starter.

Edited March 21, 2006 by Soxman72

[Wedge]

I think this is a great move. Borchard was really dead wood anyways. Additionally, we get a guy that Cooper thinks he can work with. At worst, he's Viscaino part 2. At best, he's Jenks part 2.

[Felix]

I think this is a great move. Borchard was really dead wood anyways. Additionally, we get a guy that Cooper thinks he can work with. At worst, he's Viscaino part 2. At best, he's Jenks part 2.

Huh? What makes you think he could come anywhere near being as good as Vizcaino? Its a little known fact by most Sox fans, but Viz was pretty good last year, and from the way I see it, the best Thornton will do it what Viz did last year.

[jackie hayes]

I stand corrected.

 

About...?

[lord chas]

i just dont see how this trade helps us at all. i cant see this thornton guy producing at all

[greg775]

i just dont see how this trade helps us at all. i cant see this thornton guy producing at all

 

Joe was about ready to retire. We were never going to play him.

I hope he does well. His quotes have always made him seem like a decent guy.

We were never going to play him for whatever reason and we need

bullpen help. If Coop can make this guy throw strikes, maybe he can help.

It says he throws hard. With he and Jenks, it could be really special.

We're going to need some bodies in the bullpen.

 

p.s. how is Marte doing this spring with his new team??