Joe Borchard Traded to Seattle

[Jimbo's Drinker]

so now we can trade this guy to the m's for everett??

[SSH2005]

So the Mariners had Thornton start throwing from the third-base side of the rubber and he was improving his control. Man, it really sucks to waste a 97 MPH fastball.

[RockRaines]

So the Mariners had Thornton start throwing from the third-base side of the rubber and he was improving his control.  Man, it really sucks to waste a 97 MPH fastball.

It should be painfully obvious to everyone that Borchard had zero value in the trade market. We aquired another player with no options, who sucks it up after having "potential." If this is the best we can do between trading Gload and Borchie, its pretty sad. I would have like to see someone like Rogo included so we could actually get a decent player in return.

[Balta1701]

Seattle Post-Intelligence on Thornton last Tuesday.

 

PEORIA, Ariz. -- Matt Thornton and a buddy were watching the United States-Japan game in the World Baseball Classic Sunday when Houston ace Brad Lidge entered the game for Team USA.

 

Lidge is one of the best, the owner of a 95-mph fastball, 42 saves and a 2.29 ERA last year. But on a world stage Sunday, asked to keep the USA locked in a 3-3 tie with the Japanese in the top of the ninth, he couldn't find the strike zone. He walked three, but managed to keep the Japanese from scoring.

  Thornton

  Thornton

 

"My buddy was screaming at the TV," Thornton said. "He was screaming, 'Just throw strikes! Get the (expletive) ball over the plate! Just throw strikes!'

 

"I turned to him and said, 'What do you say when I pitch?' He looked at me and said 'Man, you don't even want to know.' "

 

And that is the essence of Matt Thornton. He can throw a fastball with the best of them. He's been clocked at 97 mph. His ball has wings on it. But it doesn't always find the strike zone.

 

It's the kind of thing managers find exasperating. Particularly a manager like the Mariners' Mike Hargrove, whose mantra is always "the way to make me happy is to throw strikes."

 

There were too many times last year when the left-hander didn't make the manager happy. The manager before Hargrove, Bob Melvin, felt much the same way. With the velocity on his pitches, Thornton, a first-round draft pick in 1998, could have been in the big leagues three or four years ago if he'd been able to get his control under control.

 

"I've got to find a way to get my pitches in the strike zone," Thornton said.

 

Those words cut right across the heart of the plate. Thornton tended to be used when the Mariners were behind last year (which was most of the time), because of his walk-induced inconsistency. Seldom did he pitch in the eighth inning or beyond.

 

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Last year, Thornton's first full season in the big leagues, he pitched 57 innings and walked 42 batters. He can be somewhat difficult to hit (a .249 batting average against), but any hit off him has a chance to be a killer because of all the men he walks.

 

It may be that the arrival of new pitching coach Rafael Chaves is a gift for Thornton. Chaves has been Thornton's minor league pitching coach and has seen him on great days and awful days.

 

Take Saturday, for example. Thornton walked two and allowed five hits in his first two innings. Chaves took him aside for some constructive advice. Thornton needed to get his arm angle lower to a spot about halfway between horizontal and perpendicular.

 

"He said that you're never going to have perfect balance and a perfect delivery every time," Thornton said. "You have to learn to adapt, in the middle of your motion, if that's what it takes. You have to find a way to throw strikes."

 

Chaves said the 6-foot-6 Thornton takes longer to deliver the ball with his arm coming over the top. Getting the arm angle down is the way to go.

 

"He's spent a lot of time missing with his pitches outside," Chaves said. "What we're looking for is a happy medium, where he can get to the plate quickly and where the ball will be in the (strike) zone."

 

Armed with that advice, Thornton threw a 1-2-3 inning, including an artistic strikeout of All-Star Darin Erstad -- two sinkers, then a high, hard fastball.

 

"I buried him on three pitches," Thornton said. "I need to do that more of the time."

 

Should that happen, Thornton could wind up pitching more important innings.

[Balta1701]

Sounds like Seattle was trying the same thing we were. Hey Hargrove, want to try Pedro Lopez? Eh? Eh?

LEFT OUT: Hargrove says it's time for the left-handed bullpen candidates to prove themselves, but so far, none has done so.

 

George Sherrill has a 16.20 ERA and 15 baserunners allowed in five innings. Matt Thornton has a 14.14 ERA and 22 baserunners allowed in seven innings. Jake Woods, picked up from the Angels during the winter, has a 14.40 ERA and 11 baserunners allowed in five innings.

 

Luis Gonzalez, a Rule 5 draftee, has a 2.70 ERA in 6 2/3 innings but has been pitching out of trouble all spring. He has allowed just four hits, but he's walked seven -- more than one walk per inning -- including two in a minor league game Sunday.

 

"It's time one of the left-handers stood up," Hargrove said. "It's time for one to separate himself from the pack. But no one's done it so far."

 

Hargrove went so far as to acknowledge that Thornton was a "mystery" to him.

 

"You see he's got a great arm, but up to this point, he hasn't shown the consistency we need to see," he said. "It's not a question of not working hard enough. It's not a question of not wanting it. It's not a question of not listening to what we tell him. He just hasn't put it together yet."

[SSH2005]

It should be painfully obvious to everyone that Borchard had zero value in the trade market.  We aquired another player with no options, who sucks it up after having "potential."  If this is the best we can do between trading Gload and Borchie, its pretty sad.  I would have like to see someone like Rogo included so we could actually get a decent player in return.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly what I was hoping for as well. But obviously the whole out of options thing lowers their value a ton.

[southsideirish71]

So the Mariners had Thornton start throwing from the third-base side of the rubber and he was improving his control.  Man, it really sucks to waste a 97 MPH fastball.

 

Lets get him away from Seattle and get him in Coops hands for a bit and lets see what he can do. Jenks was the same way, a guy with a great arm who could throw a ball throw a wall, but couldnt hit it. Boone Logan couldnt find the strikezone also. Sometimes is about getting the right advise, something that works.

[Balta1701]

Lets get him away from Seattle and get him in Coops hands for a bit and lets see what he can do.  Jenks was the same way, a guy with a great arm who could throw a ball throw a wall, but couldnt hit it.  Boone Logan couldnt find  the strikezone also.  Sometimes is about getting the right advise, something that works.

Problem is, the season starts in 13 days. That's not a lot of time for Cooper.

 

Maybe they're thinking they'll start Logan at AAA, let this guy just have the big league spot for a few weeks, hope he figures things out, and cut him loose if he fails & Logan succeeds?

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Problem is, the season starts in 13 days.  That's not a lot of time for Cooper.

 

Maybe they're thinking they'll start Logan at AAA, let this guy just have the big league spot for a few weeks, hope he figures things out, and cut him loose if he fails & Logan succeeds?

 

 

I was about to post the same thing. Cooper may be a miracle worker, but not in 2 weeks.

[jphat007]

Not surprising. Decent relievers are almost impossible to find at this time of the year. If Thornton was all we could get for Borchard, I wouldn't get my hopes up that we are going to acquire anybody decent before the start of the season, like some said the other day.

[SSH2005]

Problem is, the season starts in 13 days.  That's not a lot of time for Cooper.

 

Maybe they're thinking they'll start Logan at AAA, let this guy just have the big league spot for a few weeks, hope he figures things out, and cut him loose if he fails & Logan succeeds?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thornton is out of options just like Borchard so he would have to clear waivers to be sent to Charlotte. Of course, if he continues to suck for the rest of ST like he was with the Mariners, I doubt any team would claim him.

[Guest JimH]

BTW, kudos to everyone (JimH, etc.) who predicted Borchard wouldn't make the roster this season.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thx fathom, no special satisfaction in calling this though. What kept coming up in my mind is Borchard is not Ozzie's type of player and he is not suited to a bench job.

 

This pitcher looks mediocre but let's face it ... Borchard's value wasn't a whole lot at this point.

 

One thing we can say for the White Sox, they really gave Joe Borchard every opportunity to blossom, and they traded him so he'll get an opportunity, and of course so they didn't lose him for nothing.

[WCSox]

Problem is, the season starts in 13 days.  That's not a lot of time for Cooper.

 

That's why I assumed that Thornton still had at least one option left. You can't fully evaluate a pitcher over a 13-day period in Spring Training.

 

So, their only optoins appear to be (1) actually trying to evaluate Thornton in 13 days or (2) putting Hermanson on the DL and Thornton on the 25-man roster, hoping that Cooper will be able to work out his mechanics over the first month of the season.

[SSH2005]

That's why I assumed that Thornton still had at least one option left.  You can't fully evaluate a pitcher over a 13-day period in Spring Training.

 

So, their only optoins appear to be (1) actually trying to evaluate Thornton in 13 days or (2) putting Hermanson on the DL and Thornton on the 25-man roster, hoping that Cooper will be able to work out his mechanics over the first month of the season.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what I was thinking. Maybe they will keep Thornton on the roster and only use him as a mop-up guy a la Jon Adkins and keep Boone Logan as the LOOGY if Hermanson has to go on the DL. I say this because Thornton was a starter so he should be able to pitch more than one inning in mop-up duty. Also, he appears to be better against righties than lefties. Of course, if this dude doesn't throw strikes he's pretty much worthless to us.

Edited March 20, 2006 by SSH2005

[Guest JimH]

On another note, don't be too sure that this means Gload wins the last spot.

 

I still believe they want a guy who can play proven defense at all three OF positions and maybe do a few other things.

 

We are starting to see teams cut players, and I expect more to be available this week. Decisions are starting to be made around MLB.

[LEXNLIV]

Does anyone think Ryan Sweeney can sneak in and take the 5th outfielder's spot?

[Balta1701]

Does anyone think Ryan Sweeney can sneak in and take the 5th outfielder's spot?

NO. Sweeney will be playing everyday in AAA. As will Owens. As they should be.

Edited March 20, 2006 by Balta1701

[chitownsportsfan]

Hahahaa, only 5 pages until someone suggested this means Sweeney might make the roster.

 

We should put the "Does this mean Sweeney makes team post" over/under at 5 on all threads.

[SHAFTR]

So, for the bench we are looking at:

 

Mackowiak, Cintron, Ozuna & Gload

 

For the bullpen (assuming Hermanson is done, which I feel is a safe assumption):

 

Jenks, Cotts, Politte, McCarthy, Logan, Lopez/Thornton

[LosMediasBlancas]

These guys are trying to get the slime angle on this.  They are trying to get Joe to say something negative.  So far he is taking the high road.  Good luck in Seattle Joe.

 

 

Who conducted the interview?

[WHarris1]

Interesting, I was expecting something servicable.

[Balta1701]

So, for the bench we are looking at:

 

Mackowiak, Cintron, Ozuna & Gload

 

For the bullpen (assuming Hermanson is done, which I feel is a safe assumption):

 

Jenks, Cotts, Politte, McCarthy, Logan, Lopez/Thornton

I can't see us carrying 3 lefties in the bullpen, and I get the feeling they wouldn't have made this deal if they had full confidence in Logan making the jump from A-ball to the bigs. I think Logan will start the season in AA-AAA now, just so that the jump to the big leagues isn't as big later in the season (i.e. what they did with Jenks last year), and Thornton will get a short time to do something good while working with our coaching staff in the bigs.

 

That's the only way this deal makes sense to me. They won't carry 3 lefties, but they also won't just want to let Thornton walk after 13 days (they could have done that with Borchard).

[SHAFTR]

I can't see us carrying 3 lefties in the bullpen, and I get the feeling they wouldn't have made this deal if they had full confidence in Logan making the jump from A-ball to the bigs.  I think Logan will start the season in AA-AAA now, just so that the jump to the big leagues isn't as big later in the season (i.e. what they did with Jenks last year), and Thornton will get a short time to do something good while working with our coaching staff in the bigs.

 

That's the only way this deal makes sense to me.  They won't carry 3 lefties, but they also won't just want to let Thornton walk after 13 days (they could have done that with Borchard).

 

Well, Cotts is in. For the final 2 spots (with the Hermanson assumption), there are 3 lefties competing (Lopez, Logan & now Thornton). If only one of them makes it (Thornton), who gets the final spot?

[Guest JimH]

If they can't find somebody who fits better, don't be shocked if Ozzie wants to bring Sweeney north, regardless of whether this board thinks it's a good idea or not. Guillen is not afraid to bring anyone. Again, do not automatically conclude the Borchard trade means Gload has a spot. Lots of things can still happen.

[Balta1701]

Well, Cotts is in.  For the final 2 spots (with the Hermanson assumption), there are 3 lefties competing (Lopez, Logan & now Thornton).  If only one of them makes it (Thornton), who gets the final spot?

Well, first I'd say that Hermanson isn't on the DL yet...and they'll probably give him a chance to stay off it if possible. Beyond that I don't know, but it's probably easier to find a ROOGY than it is a LOOGY floating around after the rosters drop to 25.