hi8is Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 also, from what ive read of thorons attitude... i dont like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Thornton is as good as you are going to get for Borchard. I think the trade made the same sense for both teams; White Sox need a lefty, Thornton is a lefty with upside and control problems. Mariners need a hitter, Borch is a hitter with potential but strike out and over all hitting problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Famine Pestilence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 02:37 PM) Famine Pestilence LMAO.. Not sorry to see Joe go. Other then it being 2 years too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I agree that this trade makes little sense for the Sox and much more for the Mariners. The stakes are so low however that there isn't much risk for either side, however the Mariners get a guy likely to make their club, and the Sox got a guy likely to be pumping gas come April 1st. I thought the Marlins were showing interest in Borchard? Surely they have someone better Thornton laying around... Doesn't sound like there was any market for Borchard, or KW failed to create one. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How could KW have tried to build a market for Borchard at this point? The guy has actually regressed over the years in the minors. The only thing KW could have done was trade him earlier (maybe a couple years ago) when he had more value but the Sox had invested so much money in him that they wanted to see if he would ever just click and pan out. I don't see how you can create a market for a career .191 hitter with mediocre minor league numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 01:55 PM) I don't like the trade at all and I think Joe Borchard was going to be a good 4th outfielder for the Sox. This almost looks like a desperation trade to get another lefty reliever into the mix. I think Joe B had more upside and versatility than Gload or Pablo Ozuna. Hopes that Don Cooper can turn Thornton around can only lead one to assume that you don't have to have talent to pitch at the big league level only a miracle worker for a pitching coach. But, the trade is apparently done so we can only hope for the best. What Borchard would have provided our OF with is a versatile, switch hitting power threat. The problem, of course, being his inability to recognize a curveball (hanging or not) and miss fastballs even when he's looking for them. If he could have been counted upon to provided our club with a respectable OBP%, I'd be more disappointed. Unfortunately, the truth is he's Adam Dunn without the walks or contact ability. I'm not expecting much from Thornton either, but I wouldn't label this trade a desperate move. Desperate would have been trading Owens or Sweeney for Thornton. There's always Pablo/Mac/Gload available to provide late inning substitutions. They don't provide power, but will give the White Sox more hits over time. Edited March 20, 2006 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Famine Pestilence <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The only thing that could top this would be to see Thornton pitching against Borchard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 02:44 PM) The only thing that could top this would be to see Thornton pitching against Borchard. Theres the real value question. If Thornton pitched to Borchard, would he strike out or walk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 (edited) I love these quotes from Mariner Dave about Borchard... The guy has flaws that aren’t easily fixed. He has a poor approach at the plate, the main factor being a problem with pitch recognition. Borchard, essentially, has turned himself into a guess hitter. If he gets a fastball, bravo, the ball may go 400 feet. If he doesn’t, well, he’s screwed. I’ve seen a lot of Borchard the past few years, and I remain convinced that there’s a good hitter hiding inside of the player he is now. His approach needs work, but it’s a fixable flaw. So Borchard, who is 27 and has been in the Sox farm system since 2000, has a horribly-flawed approach at the plate that "isn't easily fixable", but he thinks that Seattle is suddenly going to fix it? Sounds a bit overly-optimistic, given that the Mariners organization hasn't produced anything special at the plate since the mid-90s. From what I've read about Thornton, I actually agree with Dave that Borchard has a better shot of being a decent MLB player, but it isn't by much. Whether it's a rigid turd produced from a high-fiber diet or diarrhea, crap is crap. Edited March 20, 2006 by WCSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Theres the real value question. If Thornton pitched to Borchard, would he strike out or walk? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's a paradox. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 12:47 PM) Theres the real value question. If Thornton pitched to Borchard, would he strike out or walk? Borchard would swing and miss. The ball would bounce off of the catcher's mitt, allowing Borchard to go to first. It would count as a strikeout and a wild pitch, with the runner still reaching first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 02:52 PM) Borchard would swing and miss. The ball would bounce off of the catcher's mitt, allowing Borchard to go to first. It would count as a strikeout and a wild pitch, with the runner still reaching first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 (edited) I was listening to the Score on the radio while driving to work when I hear "The Sox have major breaking news!" I hear George Offman mention Borchard and I think to myself "Oh, yes, Kenny strikes again!", then he blurts out the name Matt Thorton and I felt like Chris Tucker when he found out the girl that he thought looked like Janet Jackson didn't look like Janet Jackson. Edited March 20, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 02:37 PM) White Sox need a lefty, Thornton is a lefty with upside and control problems. Thorton's upside is that he has an injury history. The only upside here is maybe he'll blow out his arm again and save us the agony of watching him walk 7 batters/9IP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Do not see any way this trade helps Sox at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(Soxfest @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 03:22 PM) Do not see any way this trade helps Sox at all. Nor does it hurt the Sox at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 03:25 PM) Nor does it hurt the Sox at all. sure it does.... If Thornton is on the roster, he's in danger of being used. That hurts the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Nah because most likely the guy he is going to be used over would of been just as bad. Who knows learning how to throw strikes is much easier than learning how to hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulokis Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 03:29 PM) sure it does.... If Thornton is on the roster, he's in danger of being used. That hurts the Sox. I agree with that. I was rooting for Borchard to make it as OF reserve bcoz at least he plays the OF. Maybe Kenny will get an OF that bats right handed to help our bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misplaced_Sox Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I hate this trade... Its absolutely worthless... I would rather have Borch in the outfield than Gload anyday... despite Borchards recent boobles too. Id rather have a PH that has a chance to ge the big hit like Borch rather than Gload. Sure Gload has been better in the past in the MLB but he just doesnt do anything for me. He's kinda a slappy hitter and I hate how he goes up swinging at first pitch sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(bulokis @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 03:33 PM) I agree with that. I was rooting for Borchard to make it as OF reserve bcoz at least he plays the OF. Maybe Kenny will get an OF that bats right handed to help our bench. So far this spring, Borch hasn't played OF worth a darn. Gload has. And Thornton is a no-lose deal. He's either another in the parade of loser LOOGY candidates, or maybe he gets better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 03:32 PM) Nah because most likely the guy he is going to be used over would of been just as bad. Who knows learning how to throw strikes is much easier than learning how to hit. So the only defense of trading a useful player for one who isn't useful, is that all we had was useless players to fill Thornton's roll? Thornton has had 7 years to learn how to throw strikes. He hasn't figured it out. What makes you think 2 weeks with Coop will suddenly cure him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Misplaced_Sox @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 03:38 PM) I hate this trade... Its absolutely worthless... I would rather have Borch in the outfield than Gload anyday... despite Borchards recent boobles too. Id rather have a PH that has a chance to ge the big hit like Borch rather than Gload. Sure Gload has been better in the past in the MLB but he just doesnt do anything for me. He's kinda a slappy hitter and I hate how he goes up swinging at first pitch sometime. In all of the history of Joe Borchard where did you get the idea that he can hit major league pitching. Gload can hit major league pitching. Borchard is a better OF than Gload, but in the stick category there is no comparison. Edited March 20, 2006 by southsideirish71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(Misplaced_Sox @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 03:38 PM) I hate this trade... Its absolutely worthless... I would rather have Borch in the outfield than Gload anyday... despite Borchards recent boobles too. Id rather have a PH that has a chance to ge the big hit like Borch rather than Gload. Sure Gload has been better in the past in the MLB but he just doesnt do anything for me. He's kinda a slappy hitter and I hate how he goes up swinging at first pitch sometime. Probably worthless. But Gload presents a lot more positives as the 25th guy than Borch does. Gload makes good contact, gets on base, is a proven MLB hitter, and plays corner OF just fine. Better than Borch in fact in ST. The only things Borch brings to the table are the occasional 450' bomb, a better arm than Gload and a whole lotta K's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 05:39 PM) Thornton has had 7 years to learn how to throw strikes. He hasn't figured it out. What makes you think 2 weeks with Coop will suddenly cure him? You missed the memo. Cooper is the pitching god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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