nitetrain8601 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Told you guys he wouldn't make it and shouldn't make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 02:49 PM) I love these quotes from Mariner Dave about Borchard... So Borchard, who is 27 and has been in the Sox farm system since 2000, has a horribly-flawed approach at the plate that "isn't easily fixable", but he thinks that Seattle is suddenly going to fix it? Sounds a bit overly-optimistic, given that the Mariners organization hasn't produced anything special at the plate since the mid-90s. I remember hearing similiar comments from Marlins fans when they got Billy Koch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseballgal32 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I was expecting this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseballgal32 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(Misplaced_Sox @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 03:38 PM) I hate this trade... Its absolutely worthless... I would rather have Borch in the outfield than Gload anyday... despite Borchards recent boobles too. Id rather have a PH that has a chance to ge the big hit like Borch rather than Gload. Sure Gload has been better in the past in the MLB but he just doesnt do anything for me. He's kinda a slappy hitter and I hate how he goes up swinging at first pitch sometime. Yeah, it really is a worthless trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misplaced_Sox Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 In all of the history of Joe Borchard where did you get the idea that he can hit major league pitching. Gload can hit major league pitching. Borchard is a better OF than Gload, but in the stick category there is no comparison Yes I know Borchard has not done much when up here but since half of last season til now I have just felt that maybe it was clicking for him and that being a utility OF would have done a lot for his confidence. I just feel that Borchard has a higher ceiling than Gload who is at his highest ability in terms of talent. Borchard was not so old that he could not have had the chance to be a player still. And I thought kenny would play that experiement. I guess not. I hope him well in Seattle I just hope he does not turn into a monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Oh, the sweet, sweet memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(Misplaced_Sox @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 04:05 PM) Yes I know Borchard has not done much when up here but since half of last season til now I have just felt that maybe it was clicking for him and that being a utility OF would have done a lot for his confidence. I just feel that Borchard has a higher ceiling than Gload who is at his highest ability in terms of talent. Borchard was not so old that he could not have had the chance to be a player still. And I thought kenny would play that experiement. I guess not. I hope him well in Seattle I just hope he does not turn into a monster. Gload hit over .300 in a full MLB season (a few hundred at bats I think) in 2004. Even at his "ceiling", Borch won't do that, I'd be willing to bet. And if you think Gload has hit his talent ceiling, I show you exhibit A: his defense in the OF this spring. He has looked a ton better than he did in the past with the glove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misplaced_Sox Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 That prob true as I havent been able to see most ST games but the sample size in ST is just to small for me. For one he is not very quick or speedy and it always seemed an adventure in the MLB's for him when I saw him out there. What happens when he starts having shoulder trouble again... Then we are 0 for 2 on this deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirScott Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 04:43 PM) Told you guys he wouldn't make it and shouldn't make it. many of us did. I figured once we got Cintron that Borchard's days were numbered. I just hope Thornton can be the answer as the second lefty out of the pen, but we'll have to wait and see him in action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(Misplaced_Sox @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 04:17 PM) That prob true as I havent been able to see most ST games but the sample size in ST is just to small for me. For one he is not very quick or speedy and it always seemed an adventure in the MLB's for him when I saw him out there. What happens when he starts having shoulder trouble again... Then we are 0 for 2 on this deal. I can't speak about the shoulder, but speed is a non-issue. Gload actually has at least one SB this spring, and I think he's faster than Borch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(Misplaced_Sox @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 04:17 PM) That prob true as I havent been able to see most ST games but the sample size in ST is just to small for me. For one he is not very quick or speedy and it always seemed an adventure in the MLB's for him when I saw him out there. What happens when he starts having shoulder trouble again... Then we are 0 for 2 on this deal. Even if he had only one arm, Gload would hit better than Borchard. One freak injury and now you are claiming his shoulder will give him trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 02:25 PM) I can't speak about the shoulder, but speed is a non-issue. Gload actually has at least one SB this spring, and I think he's faster than Borch. You know what the scary thing is? We're actually talking about who's faster, Ross Gload or Joe Borchard...as if it makes any difference WHATSOEVER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 04:27 PM) You know what the scary thing is? We're actually talking about who's faster, Ross Gload or Joe Borchard...as if it makes any difference WHATSOEVER. True dat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 (edited) Even Kenny is using the "Coop can fix bad pitchers" line... http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...t=.jsp&c_id=cws White Sox acquire southpaw Thornton Chicago trades outfielder Borchard to Seattle for pitcher By Robert Falkoff / MLB.com SURPRISE, Ariz. -- By Kenny Williams' estimation, left-hander Matt Thornton has been on the White Sox general manager's radar screen for two years. On Monday, Williams zeroed in and got his man. Sensing a need to fortify the bullpen, the White Sox acquired Thornton from the Mariners for Joe Borchard, who figures to have more opportunities for playing time with Seattle. Thornton was stretching with the Mariners on Monday morning in Peoria, Ariz., when the news came down. He promptly hopped into his car, made the short drive to Surprise and greeted his new teammates before the White Sox-Royals game. Thornton's arrival gives the White Sox an option of going with three lefties in the bullpen. Thornton, 29, was 0-4 with a 5.21 ERA for the Mariners last year, but the White Sox see vast potential in the 6-foot-6 hurler. "He's got good stuff and a good angle to the plate -- breaking ball, fastball," Williams said. "He's got an explosiveness through the strike zone." Lack of command has been Thornton's primary problem, but Williams is banking on pitching coach Don Cooper to get Thornton past that hurdle. "Matt and Coop will get together immediately on getting him in the strike zone more, similar to how Coop worked with Bobby Jenks and Damaso Marte before that," Williams said. "If not for my confidence in Don Cooper, then certainly you can't consider these kind of things." Cooper welcomes the challenge of working with Thornton. "What I know about him is that he has a good power arm," Cooper said. "Obviously, he has struggled with his command from time to time and been erratic from time to time." Cooper has seen tape of Thornton and feels he needs more of a "back-leg ride" to finish his pitches. Thornton will welcome whatever advice Cooper can offer. The opportunity to contribute to a reigning world championship team is one the former first-round draft pick fully embraces. "I'm excited," Thornton said. "I grew up in Michigan, and my family always got to see me when we came to Chicago, Cleveland and Detroit. Now, they'll be around a lot more. It's a clean slate for me. I'm starting over. "I had a rough year last year, but I learned a lot about myself." Thornton throws a four-seam fastball, sinking fastball, slider and changeup. He's generally in the 93-98 mph range with a changeup at 88 mph. Like Thornton, Borchard expressed enthusiasm over the deal. "It's one of those things that makes sense for both sides," Borchard said. "Things just work out a certain way, and they happen for a reason. I'm excited about a new opportunity, that's for sure." Borchard, who spent much of the 2005 season at Triple-A Charlotte, doesn't regret voicing his feelings during the offseason. "Sometimes you have to stand up for yourself and say how you feel," Borchard said. "I spoke up a little more this offseason, but I wasn't looking to rub anyone the wrong way. When you feel your career is at a crossroads, you have to say something." Williams said he had a private talk with Borchard before the White Sox boarded their bus following their World Series triumph. "He has been frustrated here, and understandably so," Williams said. "There may have been more of an opportunity to get him in the lineup had we not been in win mode constantly since he has been here." Williams' message to Borchard was that he would do everything to find Borchard a better fit if the opportunity to play extensively didn't pan out in Chicago. "Fortunately, we got somebody we really wanted and didn't just have to give Joe away," Williams said. The White Sox could break camp with lefties Neal Cotts, Boone Logan and Thornton in their bullpen. "That's one scenario, and probably the leading scenario right now," Williams said. "With each day that goes by and each time I hear Dustin Hermanson talk about retirement and injury and getting through the season ... it just makes me think that we may need to start him on the disabled list at the very least to insure that mentally and physically he's ultimately ready to compete at the level in which we all saw him compete last year. This may require more discussion, but that's where we are right now." Edited March 20, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Well, at least it's someone KW and Coop have a plan for. That's something. I'm amazed that people are actually outraged by this deal. We're seriously talking about whether Borchard or Gload will be the 25th man...so we're talking like maybe 50 or 100 at bats during the season at the very most, behind every other guy on our bench, and showing up mostly in games that are already completely over...I find it nearly impossible to believe making the wrong decision would cost us more than 1 game during an entire season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 04:36 PM) Well, at least it's someone KW and Coop have a plan for. That's something. I'm amazed that people are actually outraged by this deal. We're seriously talking about whether Borchard or Gload will be the 25th man...so we're talking like maybe 50 or 100 at bats during the season at the very most, behind every other guy on our bench, and showing up mostly in games that are already completely over...I find it nearly impossible to believe making the wrong decision would cost us more than 1 game during an entire season. I agree with this. It's amazing some of the things people will cry about. The season needs to start already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(Misplaced_Sox @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 04:05 PM) Yes I know Borchard has not done much when up here but since half of last season til now I have just felt that maybe it was clicking for him and that being a utility OF would have done a lot for his confidence. I just feel that Borchard has a higher ceiling than Gload who is at his highest ability in terms of talent. Borchard was not so old that he could not have had the chance to be a player still. And I thought kenny would play that experiement. I guess not. I hope him well in Seattle I just hope he does not turn into a monster. White Sox are trying to win now though which is the big thing. We're not going to put guys on the roster with no type of game right now just because they have more potential than the next guy. Not when we're trying to win another championship this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 (edited) Looks like we will have 3 lefties in the bullpen and Hermanson will be on the DL to start the season... http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...t=.jsp&c_id=cws "Fortunately, we got somebody we really wanted and didn't just have to give Joe away," Williams said. The White Sox could break camp with lefties Neal Cotts, Boone Logan and Thornton in their bullpen. "That's one scenario, and probably the leading scenario right now," Williams said. "With each day that goes by and each time I hear Dustin Hermanson talk about retirement and injury and getting through the season ... it just makes me think that we may need to start him on the disabled list at the very least to insure that mentally and physically he's ultimately ready to compete at the level in which we all saw him compete last year. This may require more discussion, but that's where we are right now." It looks like Logan will be the LOOGY and Thornton will be the mop-up guy. Edited March 20, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 04:55 PM) Looks like we will have 3 lefties in the bullpen and Hermanson will be on the DL to start the season... http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...t=.jsp&c_id=cws It looks like Logan will be the LOOGY and Thornton will be the mop-up guy. Not buying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I'll give Kenny the benefit of the doubt on this one. I thought this was a case of the Sox basically taking whatever they could get for Borchard. But it seems as if Kenny has had his eyes on this guy for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 joe Borchard. drew henson. Chris Weinke Josh Booty Quncy Carter Kenny Kelly. How many football guys have to go bust before baseball folks figure out they're not going to make it to the big leagues because they miss too much developmental time in college? That's $5 million of Reinsdorf's cash out the window. Thanks, Duane Shaffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 (edited) Not buying it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The price of just decent relievers is probably through the roof right now. I don't see us getting anyone good -- maybe another team's mediocre cast-offs when they make their roster cuts. joe Borchard. drew henson. Chris Weinke Josh Booty Quncy Carter Kenny Kelly. How many football guys have to go bust before baseball folks figure out they're not going to make it to the big leagues because they miss too much developmental time in college? That's $5 million of Reinsdorf's cash out the window. Thanks, Duane Shaffer. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed. Draft good hitters and good baseball players, not toolsy athletes. Edited March 20, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(winninguglyin83 @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 11:06 PM) joe Borchard. drew henson. Chris Weinke Josh Booty Quncy Carter Kenny Kelly. How many football guys have to go bust before baseball folks figure out they're not going to make it to the big leagues because they miss too much developmental time in college? That's $5 million of Reinsdorf's cash out the window. Thanks, Duane Shaffer. So you're saying you're high on Josh Fields, is that it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 05:07 PM) The price of just decent relievers is probably through the roof right now. I don't see us getting anyone good -- maybe another team's mediocre cast-offs when they make their roster cuts. Agreed. I see us going with what we've got for now. It's really gonna be on the starters to get us 7 solid innings a night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I haven't waded through the 10 pages, but are there people who are outraged at this deal? Joe. B. had little to no value. He'll be lucky to be a 4th OFer somewhere. I'm suprised they even got Thornton. This is basically trying to get something from nothing. A LHP who can throw 93-98 is at least something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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