daa84 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 i found this on Thornton from baseball americas list of top prospects from 2002. He was #15 for the mariners in 2000, and #10 in 2002. Those single A numbers are ridiculous, great K:IP and H:IP, but as weve said alot of walks. Either way the numbers dont matter at all because 1.) He was a 24 year old at A at that point and 2.) it was 5 years ago. 10. Matt Thornton, lhp Age: 25. B-T: L-L. Ht.: 6-6. Wt.: 220. Drafted: Grand Valley State (Mich.), 1998 (1st round). Signed by: Ken Madeja. Background: Thornton was a surprise first-round pick in 1998 out of NCAA Division II Grand Valley State, where he was better known as a basketball player. He never won a game in college or in his first two years as a pro, when he was beset by a sore elbow and tricep tendinitis. He finally justified his selection in 2001, when he led the California League in strikeouts and was both the organization’s and the circuit’s pitcher of the year. Strengths: Thornton always had a live arm but until last year he lacked the confidence to succeed. His fastball sits at 90-92 mph and has plenty of life, and he can get it by righthanders when he throws it down and in. His slider got a lot better in 2001, making him death on lefties, who batted .208 with no homers in 77 at-bats. Weaknesses: The next steps for Thornton are to improve his changeup and his command. There were questions about his durability, but he put those to rest by holding up for 27 starts last year. The Future: If he can’t master a third pitch, Thornton’s fastball and slider alone would make him an intriguing reliever. He’ll pitch out of the Double-A rotation in 2002. 2001 Club (Class) W L ERA G GS CG SV IP H BB SO San Bernardino (A) 14 7 2.52 27 27 0 0 157 126 60 192 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 So you're saying you're high on Josh Fields, is that it? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I like his bat. His glove at 3rd looks atrocious though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 11:10 PM) Agreed. I see us going with what we've got for now. It's really gonna be on the starters to get us 7 solid innings a night. Hey, man, did you watch the playoffs? They give us 9 a night, every night. Bullpens are for pussies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(beck72 @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 05:10 PM) I haven't waded through the 10 pages, but are there people who are outraged at this deal? Joe. B. had little to no value. He'll be lucky to be a 4th OFer somewhere. I'm suprised they even got Thornton. This is basically trying to get something from nothing. A LHP who can throw 93-98 is at least something. Seems like some people, for whatever reason, are upset that Gload is pretty much a lock to make the team more than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 05:12 PM) Hey, man, did you watch the playoffs? They give us 9 a night, every night. Bullpens are for pussies. I like the way you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 11:11 PM) I like his bat. His glove at 3rd looks atrocious though. Just saying that, yeah, there's Henson, Borchard, etc. But I'm not gonna write off Fields cuz of some supposed rule about football players playing baseball. Bo could play, Deion...well, somewhat, and we had a pretty good Auburn tight end on our team. There are tons of busts among top prospects. It's not surprising that football stars bust like the rest of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misplaced_Sox Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Bo Jackson, Deon Sanders, Brian Jordan and those were two sport athletes that played both There are athletes that dropped football and plaed baseball Remember Lou Gehrig? For every failure there is a success story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Strengths: Thornton always had a live arm but until last year he lacked the confidence to succeed. His fastball sits at 90-92 mph and has plenty of life, and he can get it by righthanders when he throws it down and in. His slider got a lot better in 2001, making him death on lefties, who batted .208 with no homers in 77 at-bats. Weaknesses: The next steps for Thornton are to improve his changeup and his command. There were questions about his durability, but he put those to rest by holding up for 27 starts last year. The Future: If he can’t master a third pitch, Thornton’s fastball and slider alone would make him an intriguing reliever. He’ll pitch out of the Double-A rotation in 2002. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good fastball, good slider, but has trouble throwing strikes -- sounds like a much worse version of Vizcaino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 05:13 PM) Well, im still hoping for a deal to get done, but I just am getting to vibe nothing is going to go down prior to the season starting. Lets hope Boone,Thorton,and the rest of the bunch can at least be servicable till the All Star Break..... That's the best we can hope for. In the meantime, I'm hoping guys like Owens, Sweeney, Valido and Fields rip apart the minor leagues the way they have spring training. We're gonna need some healthy trade assets come July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 11:13 PM) Seems like some people, for whatever reason, are upset that Gload is pretty much a lock to make the team more than anything. I've advocated for Gload because it keeps Thome off the field. Keeping Jim healthy should be the sox first concern. I didn't see Borchard helping the sox this yr. And the sox would be damn lucky if they get Thornton to help any as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 That baseball player, what was his name, John Elway: he was an alright football player. C'mon. Don't blame this on his being a quarterback at Stanford. That Elway guy was also a quarterback at Stanford and he did just fine in professional sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottawa_sox Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 04:47 PM) Theres the real value question. If Thornton pitched to Borchard, would he strike out or walk? Or get hit by the pitch? Seriously though. I don't see any downside on this deal. Borch was never going to make much of a contribution with the Sox. Anderson has moved in and Sweeney is next. Out of options and for this we get a LEFTHANDER that throws over 95. For what Cooper has shown us in the last few years - it's worth the risk. Borch was not worth a proven reliever. This looks like a nice project. I am sure they looked at tape of the guy and Coop has offered some thoughts as to what he needs to be in the zone. All Cotts needed was to keep his eyes on the glove longer. Sometimes small adjustments are all that is needed. Edited March 20, 2006 by ottawa_sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty22hotty Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Good deal! looking @ Thornton's #s... it just seems he has control issues (Marte?), other than that he looks soild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 (edited) Edited March 20, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimlandis Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Kenny and Ozzie want defense as well as offense. Watching Joe drop the fly in right on Sunday, I thought, oh man, pack up Joe, they aren't going to keep you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2376881 White Sox add Mariners lefty Thornton for Borchard Associated Press PEORIA, Ariz. -- The Seattle Mariners traded lefty Matt Thornton to the Chicago White Sox for outfielder Joe Borchard on Monday. The 29-year-old Thornton struggled last season with the Mariners, going 0-4 with a 5.21 ERA in 55 games. He has a 4.82 ERA in 74 career relief appearances with Seattle. "I's difficult to give up on a guy who throws 94 mph," Mariners manager Mike Hargrove said. "Things didn't work out for Matt here, but hopefully for him everything will come together for him in a different environment." Thornton's problems continued this spring. He allowed 11 runs and 18 hits in seven innings of exhibition play for a 14.14 ERA. In his last outing against San Francisco, he was knocked around for five runs in one inning. "[seattle] had high expectations for me, and I guess I didn't live up to those expectations," Thornton said in the Mariners' clubhouse. The 27-year-old Borchard was at Triple-A Charlotte for most of 2005 and finished second in the International League with 29 home runs. He spent the last month of the season with the White Sox, playing in seven games and going 5-for-12. The switch-hitter appeared in 102 career games with Chicago, hitting .191 with 12 homers and 30 RBI over four seasons. This spring, Borchard was batting .324 with two homers and seven RBI in 14 games. He is expected to challenge Mike Morse in the final days of camp for a spot on Seattle's bench. "At this point, I'm not sure if we'll carry four or five outfielders, and we'll wait and see what happens," Hargrove said. "The plus for [borchard] is that he plays all three outfield positions and is a switch-hitter." Thornton said he was excited to join the World Series champions. Neal Cotts is the most experienced left-hander in Chicago's bullpen. "Being traded is a new experience for me. I don't know how to react to it," Thornton said. "I've heard some good things about Ozzie Guillen, and I'm looking forward to playing for him." By trading Thornton, Seattle loses one of its few left-handed pitching options. Aside from starters Jarrod Washburn and Jamie Moyer, closer Eddie Guardado is the only left-hander assured of making the roster. Hargrove said he is prepared to go without any lefties in the bullpen aside from Guardado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 This is pretty funny... http://www.lookoutlanding.com/story/2006/3/20/132023/930 WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE By Jeff Posted on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 01:20:23 PM EST EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!! Sometimes trades aren't so much about what you get as they are about what you lose. This is one of those deals, and it's a great one for me personally, because Matt Thornton sucks, I hate him, and I chuckle at the thought of Hawk Harrelson having to narrate his control problems all summer long. It's not a spectacular move that's going to save the organization, but sometimes that's just not what you're looking for in a trade. Marginal improvements add up over time, and with this, the Lawton acquisition, the Petagine flier, the Torrealba trade. etc., Bavasi's done a pretty good job of handling the little deals, even if he hasn't been so great at the bigger ones. What The Mariners Lose: A failed first-round draft pick with one pitch and no idea where it's going most of the time. Thornton is out of options, so he was going to stick around if he didn't get traded, and that's not good for anybody (including Thornton, who probably doesn't enjoy being crippled with guilt and embarrassment all the time). With Thornton out of the way, the Mariners have given themselves a chance to hang on to Luis Gonzalez, the Rule 5 guy they nabbed from Colorado. Not that he's any great shakes or anything, but if you're really worried that Thornton could've turned into something worthwhile, Gonzalez isn't that much worse of a pitcher, and at 23, he can only get better. So there's that. We can't say yet whether or not Gonzalez is actually in the plans this year, but in having to choose with lefty to hang on to and consider keeping on the roster, the organization made the right decision. Thornton will not be missed. He's awful. There's no other way to say it. What The Mariners Gain: No more Matt Thornton! That would've been enough for me, but the addition of Joe Borchard on top of that is just gravy. Silky, rich, delicious gravy. Borchard used to be the consensus top prospect in the White Sox organization before failing to improve over four consecutive seasons in AAA Charlotte. Even now, five and a half years after being drafted, Borchard remains the kind of low-average, low-walk, high-strikeout player who struggles to succeed in the Majors because he can't hit anything that moves. His saving grace is his raw power - when he guesses right and makes solid contact, the ball flies, and that's the sort of thing that can make a coach think that a player is only one adjustment away from being a 30+ HR guy. I guess it's sort of the hitter's version of a 95mph fastball, so in some respects, Borchard is the Matt Thornton of position players. I'd rather have an underachieving hitter than an underachieving pitcher, though, and given that Borchard only turned 27 in November, I'm pretty pleased. Still, anyone whose top PECOTA comp is Jeff Liefer has a lot of developing left to do before you can rely on him to pick up some important hits. Here's where this gets problematic - if the Mariners decide to stay with the 12-man pitching staff, then they're left with a four-man bench of Rivera/Miller, Bloomquist, Lawton, and Borchard, with Petagine getting bumped to Tacoma. That's essentially taking away the best bat of the group and replacing him with the 2003 version of Wily Mo Pena. Lawton's still good, so it's not like the Mariners wouldn't have anyone capable of coming up with a pinch-hit double, but it sucks, because I like Petagine, and think he's more than deserving of a shot. Also, if they give that last bullpen spot to Gonzalez, then this is nothing more than a lateral move as far as 2006 is concerned, because I don't think anyone's expecting much out of that guy (edit: the same goes for pretty much everyone else competing for that last bullpen spot, too). Still...Matt Thornton is gone. That's awesome, and it's a great move. The rest of the stuff will work itself out. Even if Joe Borchard continues to be a massive flop, we still only have to watch him suck one AB at a time, as opposed to Thornton, who tended to string those things together. This is a good trade. How good, I really have no way of saying right now, but any time you're talking about a deal where there's practically zero downside for the Mariners, then you have to be pretty happy about it. Update: Success! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 (edited) Looks like Thornton has a roster spot already, along with either Logan or Lopez if Hermanson goes on the DL. Cooper thinks he can fix this guy... http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...t=.jsp&c_id=cws The White sox obviously need bullpen help. I think that the only way to get a stronger bullpen is to trade because not that many of our bullpen candidates are doing so well. Do you think we need a trade? If so, for what player or players would we have to give up on the other side of the deal? -- Austin, Wilmette Austin, do I think the White Sox need a trade? Well, I guess it doesn't matter because they made one just hours before the mailbag was submitted. Matt Thornton is the latest addition to the left-handed relief competition, while Joe Borchard looks to be getting a Major League opportunity with Seattle. Thornton has not exactly excelled since being taken with the 22nd pick in the 1998 First-Year Player Draft, posting a 1-6 career record with a 4.82 ERA in 74 appearances. But pitching coach Don Cooper told me Monday morning that he has followed this hurler for a couple of seasons, even looking at tape of him last year, and already sees one change that needs to be made with his mechanics. He seems excited to have Thornton as part of the staff. With the Thornton trade, it looks as if the White Sox 25-man roster is all but set -- aside from Dustin Hermanson's back issue. If Hermanson starts the season on the disabled list, look for Cactus League-legend Boone Logan and Javier Lopez to compete for that final slot. The South Siders would then have three lefties and three righties out of the bullpen. Remember, though, that in Mark Buehrle, Contreras, Freddy Garcia, Jon Garland and Javier Vazquez, you have a starting rotation that expects to go at least seven innings -- not hopes to work seven innings. The White Sox starting pitchers led the American League with 1,074 innings pitched in 2005, with the four mentioned above combining for 890 1/3 innings. That sort of durability, even coming off a season filled with pressure-packed innings, means less wear and tear on the bullpen. Edited March 21, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 All the thorton haters...are just that. http://free.hostultra.com/~WSBLeague/p1480.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 QUOTE(q\/\/3r+y @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 07:39 PM) All the thorton haters...are just that. http://free.hostultra.com/~WSBLeague/p1480.html ^^^ Borchard is a friggin nothing. No one will ever miss him. We get a bonafide stud. http://free.hostultra.com/~WSBLeague/p871.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBatterz Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Given up a guy who hit 29 homeruns in Triple A last year, hit 5 of 12 for the Sox and hit .324 this spring for a picher with an ERA of last year of 5.51, raising his career avg to 4.82 and having a spring era of 14.14 while giving up 18 hits in 7 innings? You better really spike that White Sox Kool-Aid to get me to believe that this is a good trade. It is not a bad trade as Joe was not going to contribute much to us this season, but I do not see how Thornton can either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 QUOTE(q\/\/3r+y @ Mar 21, 2006 -> 01:39 AM) All the thorton haters...are just that. http://free.hostultra.com/~WSBLeague/p1480.html He beats the Sox once in his last 10 games. At least we prevented that. 2 years ago. And wtf w/ the popup? Is my computer gonna implode now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 20, 2006 -> 07:45 PM) He beats the Sox once in his last 10 games. At least we prevented that. 2 years ago. And wtf w/ the popup? Is my computer gonna implode now? No, host ultra is just a b**** like that. That's why sim leagues should never be done on host ultra. Imagine actually trying to sift through players in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Given up a guy who hit 29 homeruns in Triple A last year, hit 5 of 12 for the Sox and hit .324 this spring for a picher with an ERA of last year of 5.51, raising his career avg to 4.82 and having a spring era of 14.14 while giving up 18 hits in 7 innings? You better really spike that White Sox Kool-Aid to get me to believe that this is a good trade. It is not a bad trade as Joe was not going to contribute much to us this season, but I do not see how Thornton can either. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It wasn't a good trade. It was simply a lateral move -- one team's trash for another team's trash. But Thornton gives us a microscopic twinkle of hope that Cooper could turn him around into a decent reliever to help replace the loss of Hermanson in our bullpen, our main area of weakness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Mar 21, 2006 -> 01:47 AM) No, host ultra is just a b**** like that. That's why sim leagues should never be done on host ultra. Imagine actually trying to sift through players in that. Thanks. Firefox is usually pretty good -- most popups I get don't take over the screen. To get 2 on one screen just worried me a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.