ZoomSlowik Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) ESPN College Basketball poll I love debates like this. Any thoughts on this? Personally I have one major gripe with this. They seem to place too much emphasis on whether a team won the title or not and their overall record. Some teams are seeded in bad spots because they happen to have played in a tough year. Some teams like Phi-Slamma-Jamma and the Fab Five are seeded way too low considering their talent level, which throws off the results a bit. I don't think a team should be penalized because they lost a tough game in the finals. I ended up with 67 UCLA as the best team, and they were a 3 seed because they lost to Houston during the regular season. They also left off some really talented UNC teams in the mid-90's that didn't win it all. They only had the 82 Heels, which probably wasn't the best of those teams, but it was included since they won it all. End rant. Anyways, as another possible topic, who is the best team or your favorite team that you've seen? I was always a big fan of the 96 Kentucky team. They were very deep and had an awful lot of future pros on the team. Another team that I don't think gets enough credit is the 2000 (or 2001?) Cincinnati team. They lost in the second round I believe, but it would have been a different story if Kenyon Martin, the National POY, hadn't broken his leg during the Conference USA tourney. Edited March 22, 2006 by ZoomSlowik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I'll have to go with 2001 Duke because that's the best team in the group that I saw. Double digit wins in every tournament game is impressive, and who can forget the comeback against Maryland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Don't forget the other 3 brackets as well on the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Mar 22, 2006 -> 05:58 PM) Don't forget the other 3 brackets as well on the link. You can click on each different bracket to get there at the top. I didn't really think I had to link to each individual bracket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Mar 22, 2006 -> 04:52 PM) I'll have to go with 2001 Duke because that's the best team in the group that I saw. Double digit wins in every tournament game is impressive, and who can forget the comeback against Maryland. That's probably not even the strongest Duke team I've seen. Those 91-92 teams were better, and the 1999 team that lost to UConn was probably more talented as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 You can click on each different bracket to get there at the top. I didn't really think I had to link to each individual bracket. lol, from your post, I was thinking you might not have seen the other brackets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbeFroman Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I'd say indiana in 76... If Jimmy V doesn't pull off a miracle in the championship, it would probably be the houston phi slamma jamma team. Other teams that jump to mind, any of the late 60's UCLA teams or the 82 jordan/worthy UNC team. Best teams never to win the championship actually a little more fun: Think Houston (above), the Kenyon Martin Cincinatti team, and of course the fab five at michigan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Mar 22, 2006 -> 06:13 PM) lol, from your post, I was thinking you might not have seen the other brackets. LOL I didn't see the other brackets, I thought they were just gonna do like one a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 (edited) I'm takin' the '91 UNLV team. That was the best team I've ever seen. Edited March 23, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 QUOTE(AbeFroman @ Mar 22, 2006 -> 06:46 PM) Best teams never to win the championship actually a little more fun: Think Houston (above), the Kenyon Martin Cincinatti team, and of course the fab five at michigan I mentioned another one in 1999 Duke, which might have been Coach K's best team. Another one that the experts seem to like is the 1974 Maryland team. They were pretty solid, but they didn't even get to go to the tournament because they lost a nail-bitter in the ACC tourney to eventual champ NC State. Back then there weren't really at large bids like there are now. Some other teams that were good that lost were 1991 UNLV, the 83 and 84 Tar Heels, 87 Syracuse, 68 Houston, and the 89 Flying Illini (maybe not great historically, but they were probably the best team in the country, and won 2 out of 3 against National Champ Michigan). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 1997-98 UNC team should be in the talks. 34-4 with a final four appearance. PG. Ed Cota(3rd in NCAA history in assists) SG. Shammond Williams(solid NBA career) SF. Vince Carter PF. Antawn Jamison C. Maktar Ndiaye Bench. Brendan Haywood Ademola Okulaja(very solid foreign career) Brian Bersticker Max Owens Two NBA stars, two pretty decent NBA players, and 3 other guys(Cota, Okulaja, Ndiaye) who have spent time in NBA camps and have had great overseas careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 To be honest, I've been a big college hoops fan going back to the Arkansas team that won it all in the mid 90's, and just about all the best teams I've seen didn't win the national title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted March 24, 2006 Author Share Posted March 24, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 01:12 PM) To be honest, I've been a big college hoops fan going back to the Arkansas team that won it all in the mid 90's, and just about all the best teams I've seen didn't win the national title. I'd agree with the exception of the 2005 UNC team, the 1996 Kentucky Wildcats and the 92 Duke Blue Devils. There were a few solid UNC teams that lost, obviously about 5 different Roy Williams-led Kansas teams that lost, 1999 Duke, 1991 UNLV, plus at least 2 Arizona teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 04:03 PM) I'd agree with the exception of the 2005 UNC team, the 1996 Kentucky Wildcats and the 92 Duke Blue Devils. There were a few solid UNC teams that lost, obviously about 5 different Roy Williams-led Kansas teams that lost, 1999 Duke, 1991 UNLV, plus at least 2 Arizona teams. Agreed on 1996 Kentucky and 2005 UNC, they are the "just about" part in "just about all the best teams i've seen didn't win it all" . I don't go back this far, but I'm sure 1991 UNLV and 1992 Kentucky would be one of the best I've seen, I do know 1997 Kansas was one, 1996 UMass with Camby, last year's Illini, 2001 Arizona, and 1998 UNC are all great teams I do remember that didn't qute win it all. Edited March 24, 2006 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbeFroman Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 12:06 AM) Some other teams that were good that lost were 1991 UNLV, the 83 and 84 Tar Heels, 87 Syracuse, 68 Houston, and the 89 Flying Illini (maybe not great historically, but they were probably the best team in the country, and won 2 out of 3 against National Champ Michigan). How could I forget the 91 UNLV team?! Thats the winner right there. In fact, thats probably a better team than 95% of the actual NCAA Championship winners. Also, I'm not sure that the cinci team with K-Mart counts.... since Martin got hurt in the C-USA tournament.... If he had been healthy, they would have clobbered everyone IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbeFroman Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 11:29 AM) 1997-98 UNC team should be in the talks. 34-4 with a final four appearance. PG. Ed Cota(3rd in NCAA history in assists) SG. Shammond Williams(solid NBA career) SF. Vince Carter PF. Antawn Jamison C. Maktar Ndiaye Bench. Brendan Haywood Ademola Okulaja(very solid foreign career) Brian Bersticker Max Owens Two NBA stars, two pretty decent NBA players, and 3 other guys(Cota, Okulaja, Ndiaye) who have spent time in NBA camps and have had great overseas careers. Ed Cota was a helluva basketball player. I think he went to 3 final fours in four years. Maktar Ndiaye was the weak link in that team... I remember a few years ago, he was the focus of that ESPN show on the D-league low-gaters. He was getting schooled even at that level... poor maktar Bill Gutheridge is on my list of all time underrated coaches. His worst record ever at UNC was 24-10 and he took 2 of 3 teams to the final four. Still, they pretty much ran him out of town to hire Matt Doughetry (who also got ran out of town for not living up to the Dean Smith Legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 05:28 PM) Agreed on 1996 Kentucky and 2005 UNC, they are the "just about" part in "just about all the best teams i've seen didn't win it all" . I don't go back this far, but I'm sure 1991 UNLV and 1992 Kentucky would be one of the best I've seen, I do know 1997 Kansas was one, 1996 UMass with Camby, last year's Illini, 2001 Arizona, and 1998 UNC are all great teams I do remember that didn't qute win it all. I loved that UMass team for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Be Good Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 84 Hoyas all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 05:03 PM) I loved that UMass team for some reason. Camby at UMass in 1996 played as if he were Tyson Chandler with an awesome offensive game to boot. Dude by himself carried them to the Meadowlands and the 1996 Final Four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Still, they pretty much ran him out of town to hire Matt Doughetry (who also got ran out of town for not living up to the Dean Smith Legacy. Both left for different reasons. Guthridge wasn't recruiting worth a crap, which is what led to UNC's dark ages of the early 2000's. He just wasn't up to being a full-time coach after all the years, but he was a hell of an X's and O's man, and dominated with Dean's recruited players. Doherty's was much, much worse. He was abusive as a coach, and as a person. He treated everyone around the program like crap, especially the long-time secretaries. He threw chairs in the locker room, and basically took his position for granted. There were several high profile players that were ready to transfer if he wasn't relieved of his job. He's made ALOT of lifetime enemies as UNC fans, and not even for his teams inconsistent play. Hopefully he's maturing down in Florida, and I wish him the best. I just don't want him anywhere near UNC again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Roy Williams should thank Doherty, as he took his roster full of players and added 1 damn good recruit in Marvin Williams and won it all. Now Roy is starting to recruit like he did at Kansas (too many crackers) and he's going to continue to underachieve in the tournament (like this year losing a 3-11 game as a 3). Go ahead, call me racist, but the facts say that I'm right. There are great white players out there (Hansbrough now, Hinrich and Collison in the past) that Roy gets, but he just recruits wayyyy too many whiteys and ends up stuck with a lot of them who were WAY WAY overrated in HS (Bobby Frasor anyone?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Roy Williams should thank Doherty, as he took his roster full of players and added 1 damn good recruit in Marvin Williams and won it all. Now Roy is starting to recruit like he did at Kansas (too many crackers) and he's going to continue to underachieve in the tournament (like this year losing a 3-11 game as a 3). Go ahead, call me racist, but the facts say that I'm right. There are great white players out there (Hansbrough now, Hinrich and Collison in the past) that Roy gets, but he just recruits wayyyy too many whiteys and ends up stuck with a lot of them who were WAY WAY overrated in HS (Bobby Frasor anyone?) Maybe I'm confused. Who of Brandan Wright, Tywon Lawson, Wayne Ellington, Alex Stepheson, Deon Thompson, and William Graves is white? Roy has always recruited a nice balance of white and black players. He just recruits whoever fits his style the best. He has complimented guys like Collison, Heinrich, with guys like Paul Pierce, Drew Gooden, Wayne Simien, Keith Langford, Aaron Miles, JR Giddens, etc. As a matter of fact, of Roy's 11 recruits coming to UNC in his tenure so far, an astounding 2 of them are white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 However, I will agree that Roy is recruiting alot of white guys in this next class. We will see how that turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 09:54 PM) Maybe I'm confused. Who of Brandan Wright, Tywon Lawson, Wayne Ellington, Alex Stepheson, Deon Thompson, and William Graves is white? Roy has always recruited a nice balance of white and black players. He just recruits whoever fits his style the best. He has complimented guys like Collison, Heinrich, with guys like Paul Pierce, Drew Gooden, Wayne Simien, Keith Langford, Aaron Miles, JR Giddens, etc. As a matter of fact, of Roy's 11 recruits coming to UNC in his tenure so far, an astounding 2 of them are white. I actually forgot to mention that, your correct. I should have been more clear in my anger, I'm sure I typed it wrong though. WHAT I MEANT to say was he always found a way to lose at Kansas becuase of the amazing amounts of white players he had there, and if he didn't learn how to win it all last year with that group of amazing athletes and recruits the same way at UNC as he did Kansas, he will continue to lose. This years team played 2 mega useless white guys (not including Hansbrough of course) and look, they lose to some 11 from Virginia. However, next years class has stars all over at every position and is VERY athletic. In fact, I'll predict they win a national title if they can keep together for 2 or 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxin' Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Valparaiso Crusaders of 1998. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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