Guillen questions Jenks' regimen

[fathom]

Your favorite person to cite Joe Nathan isn't throwing as hard as he will. Before his first year with the Twins everyone was wondering how he was going to get by with a 90 MPH fastball, but when the season started, after his training, his good fastball was there. That's the way many hard throwers do it.

 

 

Favorite person? I think I've only mentioned him one time as an example of something, and that was saying that he's a sure-thing to get 35 saves.

 

Again, I'm not overly worried about Jenks. I just think that if he can't succeed though, we're in a lot of trouble. We're a team built on winning low scoring, close games. A competent bullpen is very important.

[RockRaines]

I trust what you're saying, and I also trust my own eyes.  Hitters aren't just barely making contact on his heater like they were doing last year.  There's no life on his fastball yet.  There's still time for him to get it back, but we have less than 10 days until the games start.  Paging Brad Lidge....paging Brad Lidge.

Paging Brad Lidge huh? If you base your value of players on their spring training games so much why would you mention a pitcher who has thrown 2 innings so far this ST?

 

Heres a lesson: In the title "spring training" the most important word is "training." Meaning getting ready for the real action.

[RockRaines]

What other Sox pitcher that was on the team last year and is reported healthy has experienced a drop off in velocity of 4-5 mph?  Nobody.  There are only 8 days until the season starts.  It's time for Jenks to get his act together.

 

 

Off the top of my head, Polite, Buehrle, Garcia, Vazquez, Cotts, Contreras, BMAC, Garland have all thrown under their top velocities in spring training.

[SSH2005]

Well there were a few flame throwers who made it to waivers.  Turnbow for example looks to be settling in the closer role as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Man, Bill Stoneman of the Angels is pretty insane. Just look at the talented relievers that the dude has let go...

 

Matt Wise -- cut by the Angels; signed by the Brewers

Derrick Turnbow -- cut by the Angels; claimed by the Brewers

Bobby Jenks -- cut by the Angels; claimed by the White Sox

Joel Peralta -- cut by the Angels; claimed by the Royals

 

You could make a studly bullpen with all the guys he has dumped.

[chitownsportsfan]

Off the top of my head, Polite, Buehrle, Garcia, Vazquez, Cotts, Contreras, BMAC, Garland have all thrown under their top velocities in spring training.

 

Yea, well let me rephrase the the question:

 

What Sox pitcher is still pitching 4-5 mph below their velocity from last year 8 days until the season starts?

[Balta1701]

2005, that's in part mistakes on the part of Stoneman, but it's also the fact that their minor leagues are absolutely F***ing loaded. They clearly should have held onto 1 of those guys, but they just didn't have room for more than 1 of them.

[RockRaines]

Yea, well let me rephrase the the question:

 

What Sox pitcher is still pitching 4-5 mph below their velocity from last year 8 days until the season starts?

All of the ones I just mentioned. BMAC barely hit 90 his last outing, Mark is still throwing Mid eighties most of the time. Its spring training, why would they throw their hardest right now?

[chitownsportsfan]

Well BMAC barely tops 91 on a good day. Buehrle I would agree, he usually is around 89-90 with the heater. However, Buehrle hasn't been getting hammered so far, and he's a "finesse" guy.

 

My point isn't so much that velocity drops aren't normal for spring training, in fact, I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that it's particulary alarming that a power pitcher comes into camp with a 5mph drop on his heater. It's even more alarming when that guy cant' find the play with his only other + pitch. Spring training my not mean much, but I'd at least like to see a few good outings from Jenks, or anyone on the staff. Every other picher, (other than Thornton) that is projected to make the roster has had their moments. Jenks has been uniformly bad all spring, and it's not like he's getting "unlucky"--he's just throwing meat.

[Balta1701]

I'm almost certain that I've seen BMac pop a couple in hte 93-94 range this spring. But the times I've seen him he's mainly been throwing that 2 seamer he's been working on, so he's been in the high 80's.

[southsider2k5]

Well BMAC barely tops 91 on a good day.  Buehrle I would agree, he usually is around 89-90 with the heater.  However, Buehrle hasn't been getting hammered so far, and he's a "finesse" guy.

 

My point isn't so much that velocity drops aren't normal for spring training, in fact, I'm not saying that at all.  What I am saying is that it's particulary alarming that a power pitcher comes into camp with a 5mph drop on his heater.  It's even more alarming when that guy cant' find the play with his only other + pitch.  Spring training my not mean much, but I'd at least like to see a few good outings from Jenks, or anyone on the staff.  Every other picher, (other than Thornton) that is projected to make the roster has had their moments.  Jenks has been uniformly bad all spring, and it's not like he's getting "unlucky"--he's just throwing meat.

 

People have given plenty of examples of people both power and finese pitchers, whose velocity was way below their season norms. This might be the first time you noticed it, but it obviously is decently common. As for contral, that is usually worse than velocity as these guys haven't pitched in 4-5 months, and even more so for a guy who just rares back and brings it, vs a guy like Buehrle who is a spot pitcher.

[chitownsportsfan]

People have given plenty of examples of people both power and finese pitchers, whose velocity was way below their season norms. This might be the first time you noticed it, but it obviously is decently common. As for contral, that is usually worse than velocity as these guys haven't pitched in 4-5 months, and even more so for a guy who just rares back and brings it, vs a guy like Buehrle who is a spot pitcher.

 

And what's the point? I just said I'm not arguing that pitchers aren't at their best during spring training; I'm arguing that Jenks is beyond just "getting back into shape", he hasn't been "marginally bad", he's been terrible. Furthermore, he "terribleness" is even more concerning because he's still sucking a week before camp breaks.

 

I think a good analogy is the 3rd preseason game in FB. Sure, it's still preseason, but you don't want the 1st unit to stink it up in the 1st half.

 

Is spring training mostly meaningless: of course. Are pitchers less than 100% velocity and control wise: of course.

 

I'm a worried about Jenks: of course--why shouldn't I be? Every other pitcher on the Sox (other than my new Timo--Thornton) that is expected to make the roster has shown me something good--Jenks hasn't at all.

[RockRaines]

And what's the point?  I just said I'm not arguing that pitchers aren't at their best during spring training; I'm arguing that Jenks is beyond just "getting back into shape", he hasn't been "marginally bad", he's been terrible.  Furthermore, he "terribleness" is even more concerning because he's still sucking a week before camp breaks.

 

I think a good analogy is the 3rd preseason game in FB.  Sure, it's still preseason, but you don't want the 1st unit to stink it up in the 1st half.

 

Is spring training mostly meaningless: of course.  Are pitchers less than 100% velocity and control wise: of course. 

 

I'm a worried about Jenks: of course--why shouldn't I be?  Every other pitcher on the Sox (other than my new Timo--Thornton) that is expected to make the roster has shown me something good--Jenks hasn't at all.

Did you just start watching spring training this year? Last year our pitching was horrendous in ST.

 

Other pitchers ST stats this year:

 

D Turnbow 11.37 ERA

D Davis 14.40

J Suppan 8.20

Sabathia 6.38

R Ortiz 8.15

B Backe 7.79

M Mussina 8.04

J Bonderman 5.93

P byrd 5.68

B Arroyo 10.03

D Riske 11.57

Aj Burnett 9.00

J Blanton 9.58

B Radke 6.75

E Bedard 7.59

 

Are you worried about all of these guys as well. This is just a small sample of pitchers who produce and have high ST numbers. It means jack s***.

 

 

Jenks has a 7.88 this spring.

[AddisonStSox]

It's not his ERA, Rock.

 

It's his low K total, it's his lack of velocity, and it's his being noticeably heavier.

[RockRaines]

It's not his ERA, Rock.

 

It's his low K total, it's his lack of velocity, and it's his being noticeably heavier.

I think i've already handled this issue. Hes not noticably heavier, hes still fat if thats what you mean. Maybe the pin stripes will make him look the same size to you. Second, his velocity is down because he is building arm strength. Just like many of the pitchers on the list. Look at D Turnbow, he throws that hard, and is struggling not only with location, but with his velocity as well. It takes time people.

[fathom]

Add inexperience at the major league level as well. At least thats part of it for me.

 

There's no way to predict if Jenks is going to be a reliable major leaguer.

[Balta1701]

I think i've already handled this issue.  Hes not noticably heavier, hes still fat if thats what you mean.  Maybe the pin stripes will make him look the same size to you.  Second, his velocity is down because he is building arm strength.  Just like many of the pitchers on the list.  Look at D Turnbow, he throws that hard, and is struggling not only with location, but with his velocity as well.  It takes time people.

According to SI, Turnbow is currently throwing around 96.

[YASNY]

    There's no way to predict if Jenks is going to be a reliable major leaguer.

 

Sure there is ... *putting two fingers to each temple* .... I predict Jenks will be a reliable major leaguer.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I was A LOT more worried about Jenks going into the playoffs last year than I am now. I'd say he handled that pretty well. The only thing that could keep Bobby from being a great reliever is Bobby.

[Flash Tizzle]

According to SI, Turnbow is currently throwing around 96.

They're wrong--he's throwing 98.

 

I saw with my own eyes when he pitched against our club. No velocity problems from Turnbow this spring.

Edited March 24, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[Dick Allen]

I think i've already handled this issue.  Hes not noticably heavier, hes still fat if thats what you mean.  Maybe the pin stripes will make him look the same size to you.  Second, his velocity is down because he is building arm strength.  Just like many of the pitchers on the list.  Look at D Turnbow, he throws that hard, and is struggling not only with location, but with his velocity as well.  It takes time people.

I know the White Sox are concerned with his velocity no matter what they may say to the media. When the gun was there at the game I was at, it was on only for White Sox pitchers. There were no readings on Colorado's pitchers. And when Jenks was pitching, Ozzie and Cooper were always looking over for a reading. If velocity isn't important now, there would be no reason to even have the gun turned on, and Ozzie and Cooper wouldn't have been so interested in what it said.

Ozzie has been all over him for a while now, and if its just a question of Jenks' deciding to turn it on, I can tell you he is going to have big problems with Ozzie, and won't be with this organization very long. But I don't think its that. He was pretty frustrated when he got shallacked on Wednesday. The guy was great last year, which never could have been expected, and truly help a team win a WS. From the stories about him before he was a member of the White Sox organization, he matured a lot very quickly. Maybe his maturation is actually going to take a little longer than we all thought. Just the fact that he knows and accepts responsibility for the fact he screwed up this off season is huge progress from his Angels days.

[YASNY]

You've got to love this as motivation.

 

Kenny Williams on Bobby Jenks:

 

Williams still believes that Bobby Jenks will handle the closer’s role, though he and Guillen agree on the philosophy of closer by situation.

 

“Bobby will be fine, and (Neal) Cotts can close and (Cliff) Politte can close,’’ Williams said. “Bobby just has a little maintenance issue. It’s not unexpected.

 

“The good thing is it’s not a physical problem. It’s a commitment problem. He needs to commit to his preparation.

 

“But for me, it’s great having a manager in Ozzie who handles it so I don’t have to step in and deal with it, because if Bobby ever sees me in one of those meetings, you’ll know the (stuff) has hit the fan.

 

“That should be his goal: To make sure I don’t wind up in one of those meetings.’’