Frank Thomas Thread

[WCSox]

That wasn't the point.  He had an MVP caliber season in '03.  Sure,  if you try to match that year with some of his absolute best seasons,  it's not really close.  But his '03 season was every bit as good as Thome's '04.  . 

 

Frank hit a lot of homers (42). He walked a lot (100), but struck out even more (115). Combine that with a .267 BA and a .390 OBP and I don't think he was deserving of an MVP.

 

And the Phillies didn't even make the playoffs that year

 

Neither did the Sox in '03. What's your point?

 

So that just proves how fake MVP voting can be. 

 

A-Rod, Manny, and Delgado had much better seasons than Frank in '03. That's why he came in 15th.

 

That's called age and injuries.

 

It's also called declining skills. Frank was healthy for most of '02 and '03, but his numbers were a far cray from '91-'97 and 2000.

Edited April 1, 2006 by WCSox

[Jordan4life_2007]

Frank hit a lot of homers (42).  He walked a lot (100), but struck out even more (115).  Combine that with a .267 BA and a .390 OBP and I don't think he was deserving of an MVP.

 

I said he was an MVP canidate. Not that he was the MVP.

 

Neither did the Sox in '03.  What's your point?

 

The point was that Thome's '04 was no better than Frank's '03. Yet Thome finished MUCH higher in the MVP race. Now what's your point?

 

A-Rod, Manny, and Delgado had much better seasons than Frank in '03.  That's why he came in 15th.

 

LOL. So three guys having better seasons is why he finished 15th? Try again.

 

It's also called declining skills.  Frank was healthy for most of '02 and '03, but his numbers were a far cray from '91-'97 and 2000.

 

Please. It took him all of '02 just to come back from his '01 injury. He had a great year in '03 and was having an even better year in '04 (.997 OPS). Frank's problem is health, not declining skills.

[WCSox]

I said he was an MVP canidate.  Not that he was the MVP.

 

Given that three people in front of him were clearly more deserving, he wasn't a very strong one.

 

LOL.  So three guys having better seasons is why he finished 15th?  Try again.

 

No, three guys CLEARLY having better seasons and many more with comparable seasons (Wells, Beltran, Giambi, etc.) is why.

 

Please.  It took him all of '02 just to come back from his '01 injury.

 

Bulls***. He was injured in APRIL of '01. NFL running backs who tear their ACLs are back on the field less than 12 months later.

 

He had a great year in '03 and was having an even better year in '04 (.997 OPS).  Frank's problem is health,  not declining skills.

 

Frank had great health (160 games) in '98, but put up mediocre numbers. He was relatively healthy (135 games) in '99 and put up a measley 15 HRs and .471 SLG. Sorry, there are clearly some declining skills to go along with his poor health.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Given that three people in front of him were clearly more deserving, he wasn't a very strong one.

 

Then neither was Thome in '04.

 

No, three guys CLEARLY having better seasons and many more with comparable seasons (Wells, Beltran, Giambi, etc.) is why.

 

LOL. Frank finishing 15th was bulls*** and you know it.

 

 

Bulls***.  He was injured in APRIL of '01.  NFL running backs who tear their ACLs are back on the field less than 12 months later.

 

And are they the same right away? NOPE. You just don't come back the same right away after an injury like that. A moron knows that.

 

 

Frank had great health (160 games) in '98, but put up mediocre numbers.  He was relatively healthy (135 games) in '99 and put up a measley 15 HRs and .471 SLG.  Sorry, there are clearly some declining skills to go along with his poor health.

 

LOL. So now you're going back to '98 and '99 to back your weak argument? He had off years those years. I know that. But he was the MVP in 2000 (Giambi is a cheater), did as well as could be realistically expected in '02 after coming back from a serious injury the previous year, had an MVP caliber season in '03 and was topping that season in '04 before getting hurt again. Yeah, he's really declining. Not.

[WCSox]

Then neither was Thome in '04.

 

But Thome was in '03.

 

LOL.  Frank finishing 15th was bulls*** and you know it.

 

Wherever you want to rank him, he had no legitimate shot at the '03 AL MVP. There were too many other people with better or similar numbers.

 

And are they the same right away?  NOPE.  You just don't come back the same right away after an injury like that.  A moron knows that.

 

A moron also knows that it doesn't explain his 115 K's and paltry .361 OBP. He had enough strength in his triceps to hit 28 HRs and 29 2Bs. Surely, he had enough energy to take a walk every once in a while.

 

LOL.  So now you're going back to '98 and '99 to back your weak argument?  He had off years those years.

 

Why would Frank suddenly had "off years" right after winning 2 MVPs and a batting title? Was he hurt in '98 and '99? No! Talk about a "weak argument." :rolly

 

But he was the MVP in 2000 (Giambi is a cheater)

 

Agreed.

 

did as well as could be realistically expected in '02 after coming back from a serious injury the previous year,

 

Minus his new-found lack of plate discipline, which had nothing to do with his injury.

 

had an MVP caliber season in '03

 

Sure, if you eliminated A-Rod, Manny, and Delgado from the ballot.

 

and was topping that season in '04 before getting hurt again.  Yeah,  he's really declining.  Not.

 

Frank's been declining since '98. He's had one MVP-caliber season since (2000) and, while one of his fully-healthy seasons was impressive (2003), two others have been poor (1998, 1999). If you think that he's the same player that he was from '91-'97, you're blind.

[Jordan4life_2007]

But Thome was in '03.

 

No, he wasn't.

 

Wherever you want to rank him, he had no legitimate shot at the '03 AL MVP.  There were too many other people with better or similar numbers.

 

Still shouldn't have finished 15th.

 

A moron also knows that it doesn't explain his 115 K's and paltry .361 OBP.  He had enough strength in his triceps to hit 28 HRs and 29 2Bs.  Surely, he had enough energy to take a walk every once in a while.

 

His OBP went up dramtically the following two years.

 

Why would Frank suddenly had "off years" right after winning 2 MVPs and a batting title?  Was he hurt in '98 and '99?  No!  Talk about a "weak argument."

 

Who gives a s*** about those years. He rebounded. That's all that matters.

 

Minus his new-found lack of plate discipline, which had nothing to do with his injury.

 

See 2003 and 2004.

 

Sure, if you eliminated A-Rod, Manny, and Delgado from the ballot.

 

Are you slow or retarded? What part of he was an MVP CANIDATE don't you get? I didn't say he was the MVP. Hell, I didn't even say he should've finished second or third. But he was a legit canidate.

 

 

Frank's been declining since '98.  He's had one MVP-caliber season since (2000) and, while one of his fully-healthy seasons was impressive (2003), two others have been poor (1998, 1999).  If you think that he's the same player that he was from '91-'97, you're blind.

 

His body has been declining. His skills are fine.

[WCSox]

Still shouldn't have finished 15th.

 

Moot point. He wasn't nearly close enough to win it.

 

His OBP went up dramtically the following two years.

 

It went up a little in '03 and the '04 numbers are only based on 74 games.

 

Who gives a s*** about those years.  He rebounded.  That's all that matters.

 

You can't ingnore relevant data just because it doesn't support your argument. He had back-to-back bad seasons with no major injury for an excuse... and he hasn't been the same since.

 

See 2004. 

 

Yep, I can see Frank sitting at home in the DL right now.

 

Are you slow or retarded?

 

Oooh, personal attacks. You sound like a real intellectual powerhouse!

 

His body has been declining.  His skills are fine.

 

Yes, his strength and vision have deteroirated and he's about 30 lbs heavier than he was a decade ago. Too bad those things affect his bat speed and strike-zone judgement.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Moot point.  He wasn't nearly close enough to win it.

 

And your Jim Thome argument is moot.

 

It went up a little in '03 and the '04 numbers are only based on 74 games.

 

His OPS jumped from .834 in '02 to .952 in '03. That's rather significant. 74 games is still about half a year. No reason to believe he couldn't have maintained that for a full year -- had he been healthy.

 

You can't ingnore relevant data just because it doesn't support your argument.  He had back-to-back bad seasons with no major injury for an excuse... and he hasn't been the same since.

 

What data? That he had off years in '98 and '99? Whoopty do.

 

Yep, I can see Frank sitting at home in the DL right now.

 

I see a .434 OBP. Of course, that doesn't help your argument. So you'll just dismiss that to him missing half the year.

 

Yes, his strength and vision have deteroirated and he's about 30 lbs heavier than he was a decade ago.  Too bad those things affect his bat speed and strike-zone judgement. 

 

His strength? What the hell would suggest his strength has deteriorated? He's heavier than he was 10 years ago? LOL. Yeah, that's an obvious sign of declining. NOT.

Edited April 2, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006

[WCSox]

His OPS jumped from .834 in '02 to .952 in '03.  That's rather significant.

 

Sure. Frank had a good year in '03. I've already said that. But it wasn't on par with what he did from '91-'97 and 2000.

 

74 games is still about half a year.  No reason to believe he couldn't have maintained that for a full year -- had he been healthy...

I see a .434 OBP.  Of course,  that doesn't help your argument.  So you'll just dismiss that to him missing half the year.

 

OK, then I'll solely focus on the last 74 games of 2000 and argue that Frank didn't deserve the MVP that year. (If you'll recall, Frank went into a big slump that August.) Comparing a half-season to a full-season is a slippery slope.

 

What data?  That he had off years in '98 and '99?  Whoopty do.

 

So, you criticize me for "dismissing" a 74-game campaign in '04, yet it's perfectly OK for you to completely dismiss two full seasons?! :rolly

 

His strength?  What the hell would suggest his strength has deteriorated?

 

Oh, I don't know... maybe the fact that his bat speed has declined significantly since the '90s? It's reflected in his higher strikeout totals.

 

He's heavier than he was 10 years ago?  LOL.  Yeah,  that's an obvious sign of declining.  NOT.

 

You're right. Being fat and out of shape actually makes a hitter more productive.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Sure.  Frank had a good year in '03.  I've already said that.  But it wasn't on par with what he did from '91-'97 and 2000.

 

And I've already said that his '03 season didn't compare to his absolute best seasons. Hell, Michael Jordan wasn't as good in 1998 as he was in 1988. It was still a great season. MVP caliber.

 

OK, then I'll solely focus on the last 74 games of 2000 and argue that Frank didn't deserve the MVP that year.  (If you'll recall, Frank went into a big slump that August.)  Comparing a half-season to a full-season is a slippery slope.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about. LOL.

 

 

So, you criticize me for "dismissing" a 74-game campaign in '04, yet it's perfectly OK for you to completely dismiss two full seasons?!

 

I didn't dismiss them. They were bad years by his standards. He rebounded from them. That's all I care about. You can harp on those years all you want.

 

Oh, I don't know... maybe the fact that his bat speed has declined significantly since the '90s?  It's reflected in his higher strikeout totals.

 

Again, what the hell does that have to do with strength? The guy belted 12 HRs in just over 100 at-bats last year.

 

You're right.  Being fat and out of shape actually makes a hitter more productive. 

 

Bobby Jenks is fat. John Kruk was fat. Cecil Fielder was fat. Frank Thomas is not fat. That simple enough for you?

Edited April 2, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006

[Gregory Pratt]

You're right.  Being fat and out of shape actually makes a hitter more productive. 

 

It's the secret to Bonds' success!

[WCSox]

MVP caliber.

 

Not according to the non-homers who voted him 15th.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about.  LOL.

 

Try reading it again. If Frank's 74 games in '04 constituted a "good season" by your standards, then his latter 74 games in 2000 constituted a poor one by mine. You can't compare a partial season to a full one.

 

I didn't dismiss them.  They were bad years by his standards.  He rebounded from them.

 

He did in 2000. But he hasn't put up those kinds of numbers since. Hence Frank is in decline.

 

Again,  what the hell does that have to do with strength?  The guy belted 12 HRs in just over 100 at-bats last year.

 

Gee, I don't know... what ever could strength have to do with how quickly one can swing a bat? Frank can't handle fastballs like he used to, as evidenced by his much higher K/BB ratio since 2001.

 

Bobby Jenks is fat.  John Kruk was fat.  Cecil Fielder was fat.  Frank Thomas is not fat.

 

Then I suppose that it's his weak ankles and feet that are the problem, rather than the 270 lbs. that they have to carry around all day.

 

Sorry, but even the biggest Frank supporter out there would admit that he needs to lose about 20 or 30 lbs.

Edited April 2, 2006 by WCSox

[Jordan4life_2007]

Not according to the non-homers who voted him 15th.

 

If by homer you mean somebody who's not one of those fake, fickle, retards that can still apperciate a guy even though he's no longer with my team, then yeah, I'm a homer.

 

Try reading it again.  If Frank's 74 games in '04 constituted a "good season" by your standards, then his latter 74 games in 2000 constituted a poor one by mine.  You can't compare a partial season to a full one.

 

LOL. So he sucked the last 74 games of the season and still managed to hit .328, 43, 143 and a 1.061 OPS? Try again.

 

 

He did in 2000.  But he hasn't put up those kinds of numbers since.  Hence Frank is in decline.

 

I know. It's called injuries.

 

Gee, I don't know... what ever could strength have to do with how quickly one can swing a bat? [/color]     Frank can't handle fastballs like he used to, as evidenced by his much higher K/BB ratio since 2001.

 

That has nothing to do with strength.

 

Then I suppose that it's his weak ankles and feet that are the problem, rather than the 270 lbs. that they have to carry around all day.

 

Yeah, I'm sure Frank wouldn't have had any injuries the last 5 years if he was just 10 pounds lighter.

 

Sorry, but even the biggest Frank supporter out there would admit that he needs to lose about 20 or 30 lbs.

 

 

Frank has been around 265-275 his whole career. Losing 20 pounds would not have prevented the injuries.

Edited April 2, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006

[WCSox]

LOL.  So he sucked the last 74 games of the season and still managed to hit .328,  43,  143 and a 1.061 OPS?  Try again.

 

Frank slumped over the last two months of the season AND in the playoffs. If you took those numbers and extrapolated them to 162 games, he wouldn't have even been in MVP contention. "Try again!"

 

I know.  It's called injuries.

 

No, it's called declining skills. Back in the early/mid '90s, Frank would routinely put up OBPs ranging from about .440 to .480. He's put up an OBP of over .400 ONCE since 2000, and that was the 74-game half-season. Frank had only ONE 100-K season from 1990-2001. He's K'd 115 times in the only two full seasons he's played since.

 

CLEARLY, he's declined as a player. The numbers show it.

 

That has nothing to do with strength.

 

Wrong again! Bat speed has EVERYTHING to do with hand, wrist, and forearm strength.

 

Frank has been around 265-275 his whole career.  Losing 20 pounds would not have prevented the injuries.

 

Wrong yet again! He was about 250 a decade ago and I think he was about 240 when he broke into the bigs.

 

If by homer you mean somebody who's not one of those fake, fickle, retards that can still apperciate a guy even though he's no longer with my team, then yeah, I'm a homer.

 

As you'll see by my sig line, I still appreciate Frank. But I'm not going to pretend that he's the same player that he was back in the '90s when he's cearly not. I've also been following the Sox since before you were born, so don't tell me what kind of fan I am, you ignorant little boy.

Edited April 3, 2006 by WCSox

[WCSox]

My apologies to the admins if I was out of line with that last comment. I didn't appreciate being called a "retard" and tend to have a difficult time biting my tongue after a few beers.

 

Feel free to kill this thread, as I have no desire to debate an issue with somebody who uses childish name-calling to defend his/her position.

[YASNY]

Good idea.

 

Edit: Dammit, this isn't PHT. Someone lock this thing.

Edited April 3, 2006 by YASNY

[jackie hayes]

I hope Frank does well. You can't do more than FT did for us. Yeah, he's old and his skills are declining (like all old players). Still a damn, damn good player. Best player for this team, was always a team guy last year, I have to say -- Frank, I'd wish you another championship, but, ya know.

 

I wish the A's the 2nd-best-of-luck.

[qwerty]

Zito is a f*** face.

[SSH2005]

Zito is a f*** face.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He just got cornholed. And this beyotch has actually slept with Alyssa Milano?

[greasywheels121]

5 hours later, the inning is over. Frank's first AB in an Oakland jersey, in a minute.

[greasywheels121]

Heh, HR. His 449th career HR.

[WSoxMatt]

In his 1st Oakland AB, Thomas HRS off Randy Johnson!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He just doesnt look right in any other uniform besides the Chicago White Sox

Edited April 4, 2006 by WSoxMatt

[qwerty]

Homer.

[jackie hayes]

Gone. Good job, Frank.

[CubsSuck1]

Frank is still the man