Kelvin Sampson to Indiana

[whitesoxfan101]

The one big question I have about Sampson is how much better of a coach is he than Mike Davis? I'm not sure I have much evidence to say there is a significant difference, which is why this hire surprises me so much. I thought FOR SURE Crean was the guy to be honest.

[Cerbaho-WG]

I can't believe Indiana hired another black coach, I think a big part of why Davis would have never been accepted was race.  I know the Indiana fans here are good fans and to you guys it has nothing to do with it, but Indiana has a noticeable base of dopey fans and remember that the KKK started right down the street.

 

 

Good observation. As much as people don't want to mention it, Davis was forced out partly because he was black. Anyone who doesn't believe that there are some virulent racists around Bloomington is being ignorant (not in the student population, they're GREAT fans).

[whitesoxfan101]

That's the thing I want to make PERFECTLY clear. Indiana students and people like those that post here are VERY good fans. The people I talk about (which are sadly a large part of the fan base) when I say things like I did earlier in this thread are the older folks and townies and rednecks who still want crazy ass Bobby Knight as coach.

 

The reasons that I question this hire are that Sampson runs a VERY poor offense (although he's a very good defense/rebounding coach, which is a good thing in the Big 10) has a lot of dirty recruiting history (although I don't think he's ever actually been sanctioned, so I can see why that wouldn't matter here) and I also just wonder how much better of a coach he is than Davis. Although now that I think about it, Davis was run out of town more by the townies and dope portion of IU fans than he was the administration, so I guess it's not like they fired Davis to hire Izzo or something.

[Cerbaho-WG]

That's the thing I want to make PERFECTLY clear.  Indiana students and people like those that post here are VERY good fans.  The people I talk about (which are sadly a large part of the fan base) when I say things like I did earlier in this thread are the older folks and townies and rednecks who still want crazy ass Bobby Knight as coach. 

 

The reasons that I question this hire are that Sampson runs a VERY poor offense (although he's a very good defense/rebounding coach, which is a good thing in the Big 10) has a lot of dirty recruiting history (although I don't think he's ever actually been sanctioned, so I can see why that wouldn't matter here) and I also just wonder how much better of a coach he is than Davis.  Although now that I think about it, Davis was run out of town more by the townies and dope portion of IU fans than he was the administration, so I guess it's not like they fired Davis to hire Izzo or something.

 

No, again, you're hitting the nail on the head when it comes to the race issue. Some parts outside of the campus here in Bloomington are genuinely scary, but not as much as Martinsville or the other backwater towns.

[whitesoxfan101]

Wow, there is more out there on Sampson's issues than I thought

 

http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/teams/report/OK

 

http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/9153113

 

Obviously Indiana is a WAY better job than Oklahoma, but there might be other reasons why he wanted to get outta there.

[Chisoxfn]

I don't see it. This is a horrid move by IU. This guy is a loser when it comes to recruiting and isn't a very good head coach.

 

I don't see him being better than Alford and at least Alford is a fan favorite. If your going to get rid of Davis you should have gotten someone better (Alford wouldn't have been that guy, but he'd have been better than Sampson).

 

Just wait till you guys get sanctioned after a few years of his crap.

[Heads22]

Wow, Jimbo and I agree on something.

 

You know you're getting a good coach in Sampson. He's got baggage, though.

[Finkelstein]

I can't believe Indiana hired another black coach,

 

He's actually Native American. "Part of the Lumbee Tribe of North Carolina." That is according to his website.

[whitesoxfan101]

He's actually Native American.  "Part of the Lumbee Tribe of North Carolina." That is according to his website.

 

Hmm....interesting. Well at any rate he's not the all american whitey I thought they'd hire. That shouldn't matter at all, but it does.

[Soxfest]

So much for M.Wilbon saying book it Randy Whitman he said would get job...........his word is nothing in my eyes now!

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Wow, Jimbo and I agree on something.

 

You know you're getting a good coach in Sampson. He's got baggage, though.

 

Heads, we know the big 12, and are used to his thuggish style. He finds Juco big men who don't have much talent, but just beat teams down. I also believe he is going to leave the new coach at OU out to dry. IU better watch his long distance calls. haah

[greasywheels121]

As I said before, I'm very surprised at the hiring of Sampson. His name just isn't as attractive as the other names that we're rumored. Greenspan definitely wanted to make this his decision, and didn't really want to buy too much into what everyone else is saying.

 

I've got to say the things about his programs being dirty in the past scare me a lot. Indiana's never had that, and I don't want that to start with this hire. I trust Greenspan did his homework on this, and won't have any of that nonsense brought into Bloomington. He's 2 for 2 on big hires so far (with football: Hoeppner and women's basketball: Verysp).

 

Sampson appears to be a solid recruiter, and it'd be great to see him take some of his incoming recruits into Indiana next fall. Moving from a place where football comes first, to a place where basketball is all that matters can only help that. I hope Sampson comes in and begins recruiting the state like mad; there's no reason that we shouldn't be having those players in Indiana.

 

I can't say it's the guy I wanted; no one even saw this coming.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

As I said before, I'm very surprised at the hiring of Sampson. His name just isn't as attractive as the other names that we're rumored. Greenspan definitely wanted to make this his decision, and didn't really want to buy too much into what everyone else is saying.

 

I've got to say the things about his programs being dirty in the past scare me a lot. Indiana's never had that, and I don't want that to start with this hire. I trust Greenspan did his homework on this, and won't have any of that nonsense brought into Bloomington. He's 2 for 2 on big hires so far (with football: Hoeppner and women's basketball: Verysp).

 

Sampson appears to be a solid recruiter, and it'd be great to see him take some of his incoming recruits into Indiana next fall. Moving from a place where football comes first, to a place where basketball is all that matters can only help that. I hope Sampson comes in and begins recruiting the state like mad; there's no reason that we shouldn't be having those players in Indiana.

 

I can't say it's the guy I wanted; no one even saw this coming.

 

 

Just read an article that said Scottie Reynolds probably will go to IU with Sampson. also, I bet huggins and anderson wish this job was open before they signed at their new schools.

[aboz56]

Recruiting Juco players won't work at IU.

 

He'll have to stop that immediately.

 

Also, he'll have to run a squeaky clean operation and better hope to hell he doesn't bring any of his problems at OU to IU.

 

I am going to give him a fair chance and see what happens. I think he is a great coach, but he has to recruit the state VERY well and cut off recruiting Juco players.

 

As far as Jason's comments about Alford, why the hell do you think Alford is a better hire?

 

Alford has had a chance to win at Iowa and he has proven nothing. He's won ONE NCAA tournament game and had a cute little run at Southwest Missouri State (now Missouri State) that got him the Iowa job. There is a reason we didn't want the guy. He can't win when it counts.

 

It's not like Oklahoma is a basketball rich school. Sampson has taken them to an Elite 8 and a Final Four and has 9 straight 20 win seasons. Alford has done none of that. All he has done is disappoint time and time again in the tournament and come up with a worse Big 10 record than Mike Davis.

 

The Alford would be a fan favorite at IU reason for hiring is crap. To say he (Sampson) is not better than Davis, which is what you basically said, is just plain retarded.

 

Have fun with your hack of a coach at Iowa for the next few years. That is, until you fire him.

Edited March 28, 2006 by aboz56

[HoosierSox]

2 time coach of the year. Good defense and rebounding coach ( Which were IUs biggest problems with Davis). Heck of a recruiter I believe had a top 10 class coming in. Sampson may be just what the doctor ordered. They may have to go JUCO at least this year if DJ leaves but hopefully he can convince him to stay and get Arthur.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I actually think this is a good move by the Hoosiers.

[greasywheels121]

Pat Forde echo's a lot of good points in this article.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/sto..._pat&id=2387851

 

It'll be awhile before anyone really understands/can make sense of what kind of hire this is (good/bad), but it'll be interesting to hear what Sampson and Greenspan say during the press conference, which may be tomorrow? I'm hoping it is, because I'm done by lunch and I'll be able to check it all out.

[Heads22]

Forde is probably my favorite ESPN writer...

[Chisoxfn]

Recruiting Juco players won't work at IU.

 

He'll have to stop that immediately.

 

Also, he'll have to run a squeaky clean operation and better hope to hell he doesn't bring any of his problems at OU to IU.

 

I am going to give him a fair chance and see what happens.  I think he is a great coach, but he has to recruit the state VERY well and cut off recruiting Juco players.

 

As far as Jason's comments about Alford, why the hell do you think Alford is a better hire?

 

Alford has had a chance to win at Iowa and he has proven nothing.  He's won ONE NCAA tournament game and had a cute little run at Southwest Missouri State (now Missouri State) that got him the Iowa job.  There is a reason we didn't want the guy.  He can't win when it counts.

 

It's not like Oklahoma is a basketball rich school.  Sampson has taken them to an Elite 8 and a Final Four and has 9 straight 20 win seasons.  Alford has done none of that.  All he has done is disappoint time and time again in the tournament and come up with a worse Big 10 record than Mike Davis.

 

The Alford would be a fan favorite at IU reason for hiring is crap.  To say he (Sampson) is not better than Davis, which is what you basically said, is just plain retarded.

 

Have fun with your hack of a coach at Iowa for the next few years.  That is, until you fire him.

Alford at IU >>> Sampson at IU

 

Contrary to popular belief Alford is a pretty good coach and a lousy recruiter. However at Indiana he would be able to do a very good job recruiting thanks to the connections he has via his dad and being a part of that program.

 

Alford at IU = GOOD Coach, Good Recruiter and while Iowa will have a down year next year, considering its a lot harder coaching iowa than IU, I actually think we'll be just fine when compared to Sampson's Hoosiers.

 

In fact I think the rest of the big 10 smiled today cause they realize how dangerous how could have been had they made the right hire.

[aboz56]

Forde is probably my favorite ESPN writer...

Known him for a very long time as he worked with Dad at the Courier Journal for 10-15 years before ESPN lured him away.

 

Great writer and a great person.

 

Definitely one of my favorites as well.

Edited March 29, 2006 by aboz56

[aboz56]

Alford at IU >>> Sampson at IU

 

Contrary to popular belief Alford is a pretty good coach and a lousy recruiter.  However at Indiana he would be able to do a very good job recruiting thanks to the connections he has via his dad and being a part of that program. 

 

Alford at IU = GOOD Coach, Good Recruiter and while Iowa will have a down year next year, considering its a lot harder coaching iowa than IU, I actually think we'll be just fine when compared to Sampson's Hoosiers.

 

In fact I think the rest of the big 10 smiled today cause they realize how dangerous how could have been had they made the right hire.

You are entitled to your opinion of course and I always respect it, I just think you and a lot of other people are overstating the connection Alford and his Dad have in the state of Indiana.

 

If he can recruit Indiana so well, why aren't any Indiana HS players going to play for him in Iowa? If his name is so big, certainly players would go to Iowa just to play for him, right?

 

I think his name holds little weight in the state and his Dad's name holds even less. A lot of the kids who are being recruited now were either newborns or not even born when Alford won a title at IU in 1987. They probably don't care either.

 

As far as his Dad goes, I haven't seen him help Alford take any Indiana kids to Iowa for his son and I don't really think he has much significance around the state either. He is a name certainly, but can he really impact recruiting?

 

He certainly wouldn't have much impact at all in recruiting the Indianapolis area which is where the IU coach is going to need to pull talent from. I get so sick of hearing about the ties he has. As far as I'm concerned, any great player from the state wouldn't be greatly influenced to go to IU simply because Sam Alford advised them to.

 

It is also hard to defend Alford's gross choke job this year in the tournament this year with a senior laden squad and his other underachieving teams with the likes of Dean Oliver, Recker and Reggie Evans. I really have a hard time putting him as a coach over a guy who has won national coach of the year and also won 11 tournament games and gone to a Final Four.

 

I think Greenspan really went out of the way in this hire to not get anyone with IU ties.

 

Whether or not it works out, only time will tell but I think not hiring Alford was indeed the right move.

Edited March 29, 2006 by aboz56

[Rex Hudler]

If he can recruit Indiana so well, why aren't any Indiana HS players going to play for him in Iowa? If his name is so big, certainly players would go to Iowa just to play for him, right?

 

I think his name holds little weight in the state and his Dad's name holds even less. A lot of the kids who are being recruited now were either newborns or not even born when Alford won a title at IU in 1987. They probably don't care either.

 

As far as his Dad goes, I haven't seen him help Alford take any Indiana kids to Iowa for his son and I don't really think he has much significance around the state either. He is a name certainly, but can he really impact recruiting?

 

He certainly wouldn't have much impact at all in recruiting the Indianapolis area which is where the IU coach is going to need to pull talent from. I get so sick of hearing about the ties he has. As far as I'm concerned, any great player from the state wouldn't be greatly influenced to go to IU simply because Sam Alford advised them to.

 

Aboz, while I agree with you that Alford wasn't the best choice for IU, I think you are way off on the reasoning above.

 

Alford could have united IU's fan base and brought excitement back to the program. I have several friends - and I have even gone in and out with this - who just haven't really cared about IU basketball the past few years. They don't go out of their way to watch games like they used to and are basically blase about the whole thing. Alford could have immediately helped bring those fans back and created an excitement across the state.

 

That would have allowed him to recruit the state. Not that he is "Steve Alford" but that he is (would have been) the Head Coach at Indiana with an immediatly unified fan base. That, along with his father's contacts with HS coaches across the state, would have definitely helped him recruit kids to IU. He could have been the beginning of having HS kids wanting to play for Indiana, and grade school kids dreaming of playing for the Hoosiers.

 

That would have been the key. Asking why Alford's name wasn't getting Indiana kids to go to Iowa is not even close to the same. It is not a fair comparison. It's what he could have immediately created at IU, along with his personal involvement in one of those National Championship banners that would have allowed him to recruit the state.

 

I definitely think Alford would have had a positive immediate impact. But my fear is whether he would have been able to sustain it. If he had problems winning, or seemed to be going backwards, then all of the above would crash and burn as fast as it was rebuilt.

[Rex Hudler]

As far as Sampson goes, I prefer to wait and see what will happen. The choice doesn't immediately spark happiness, sadness or anger.

 

I'm not too worried about the "violations". He has recruited well in Oklahoma. The cupboard in Indiana and the surrounding states will be MUCH more full. I don't think he will feel compelled to recruit JUCO's all the time, but Dean Garrett and Keith Smart proved doing so on a limited basis can pay off at IU.

 

Once he is introduced, I will support him fully and look forward to the next few months. Hopefully, he can keep Vaden and White at IU and bring a new excitement to Hoosier Basketball.

 

Go Hoosiers!!

[whitesox61382]

I don't see it.  This is a horrid move by IU. This guy is a loser when it comes to recruiting and isn't a very good head coach.

 

I don't see him being better than Alford and at least Alford is a fan favorite.  If your going to get rid of Davis you should have gotten someone better (Alford wouldn't have been that guy, but he'd have been better than Sampson).

 

Just wait till you guys get sanctioned after a few years of his crap.

 

It appears that I am in the minority when it comes to liking this hiring.

 

I don't understand how people can question his track record from a wins and loses perspective? The guy has an active streak of 9 straight 20+ win season in a major conference. He took a mediocre basketball program and made them into a perenial top 25 calibur program. He made the NCAA Tourny in 10 of his 11 years at OU. He was NATIONAL coach of the year TWICE. He has made it to the Big 12 championship game in 5 of the past 8 years. The only thing really missing on that resume is a National Championship and to a lesser extent consistant success in the Tourny.

 

I was all for getting Crean or Few, but to say their track record is better then Sampson holds no water. From a wins and loses perspective, they are very similar with the BIG difference being that Sampson has accomplished his record in a major conference while Crean and Few constantly take advantage of weak conferences. Furthermore, their Tourny track records are both very similar to Sampson, so anyone who says that they have better overall track records is lying to themselves and not looking at the facts(and remember that this is coming from a guy who really wanted Crean or Few).

 

I regards to Alford, it would have been the easy hire and well liked by most IU fans, but it would have not done anything about the mediocre. Alford would be granted a longer lease, but his track record compared to Sampson pails in comparison. Furthermore, I side with Aboz in the recruiting matter. If Alford has such a big name in IU, than why don't any of the top high school kids in Indiana go to Iowa? Yes, it would be easier to recruit Indiana kids at IU, but Alford's recruiting track record has shown little ability to take advantage of the Indiana hotbed of high school talent. The fact is that Alford is a poor recruiter and a mediocre X's and O's guy, and I like the fact that Greenspan took the road less traveled because the chances of Sampson leading IU back to the promise land are far greater despite Alford's popularity among IU fans(most true IU fans that know their basketball didn't want to see Alford at IU because of this).

 

I realize that IU fans have high expectations and want to get back to the dominating days of the early/mid Knight era(or similar to the current Duke run of the past decade plus), but you have to take baby steps and accept reality. IU has been stuck in mediocre over the past decade(end of the Knight era and most of the MD era) when an appereance in the top 25 or getting past the 1st round of the Tourny was something to cellebrate. Sampson has proven that he can take a program stuck in mediocre and take them to that next level. Maybe not the Duke dominate level, but a program that is constantly mentioned as one of the 10-20 programs that tend to consistantly have the talent to challenge for a National Championship.

 

Chisoxfn, you know that I always respect your opinion, but you are simple incorrect about Sampson's recruiting ability. In fact, anyone who knows a ton about college basketball will tell you that Sampson is a tireless recruiter who constantly brings top talent to OU despite that fact that it is tradionally a football school with poor high school basketball instate. Look no further then his current recruiting class with features 4 4-star recruits and 1 5-star recruit, and will likely end up being a top 5 recruiting class. You can question some of the character of the recruits that he has brought in(his juco recruiting probably won't work at IU), but the talent level is hard to question.

 

With all that said(sorry about the length but I am a huge IU fan), there are some concerns.

 

1) His style - He is known for a sluggish defensive struggle that can be painful to watch(it wins games though). While it might work well in a league such as the Big 10, it won't bring a lot of buzz and excitement.

 

2) Possible NCAA violations - Personally, I think his violations are a joke based on what I have read about them, and I won't be surprised if the committe desides that the school punishment was just enough. However, the violations could affect IU and bring a black cloud over a relatively clean program.

 

3) Character of recruits - He has recruited a lot of questionable character players at OU(especially for the JC ranks), and I hope that he will improve the quality of the character of recruits that he brings in now that he is at a school with a better academic reputation.

 

4) In-state recruiting - This was Davis's downfall, and Sampson needs to realize that Indiana(unlike Oklahoma) is a hotbed for blue chip recruits. He can't let recruits like May, Oden, Conley, Carney, Davis, McRoberts, ect consistantly slip out of state.

 

5) Race - I applaud Greenspan for hiring another minority despite being in a predominately white dominated area that can at times not be friendly to minorities. He took the tough road and hired the guy he felt was best for the job despite race. Unfortunately, that means that he will have a shorter lease(compared to someone like Alford) and will need to win right away to make people forget his race(winning is the cure to most racial tension).

 

IU fans need to realize that IU doens't have the luster that they think it does. There is a ton of pressure to coach there and expectations that even coach K might not be able to reach. Short of a list of the top coaches in the game(coach K, Williams, Izo, Olsen, ect), of which none were realistically considering IU, Sampson is a pretty big name hire in my book and gives me some hope as an IU fan when everything is realistically considered.

[redandwhite]

To start: I like it.

 

As it's been mentioned a couple times now, this is a guy who has been a far above average coach in a power conference, and he's been consistent to boot.

 

It's too early to set my opinion in stone, but as I said:

 

I like it.