Sox Sign Jose Contreras to 3 Year Deal

[YASNY]

I am a little suprised by the desire to trade contreras on these boards. In my opinion, he has without a doubt the best raw stuff of anyone on our starting staff. His only limitation had been the head games he played in his mind, but Coop righted the ship last year and now he is utulizing his vast potential. He was our ace when it came down to the playoffs last year and I predict will remain our ace for quite some time. I personally expect Garland to be the odd man out at the end of the year when he doesnt live up to last years performance, and makes room for BMac in the rotation.

 

Yes. Welcome to Soxtalk. I agree with your prediction, but that doesn't mean it's a given to work out that way. Which is why I said it's a gamble.

[allupons]

Thanks for the welcomes, and lets watch the sox get things started for their repeat attempt tomorrow.

[G&T]

I am a little suprised by the desire to trade contreras on these boards. In my opinion, he has without a doubt the best raw stuff of anyone on our starting staff. His only limitation had been the head games he played in his mind, but Coop righted the ship last year and now he is utulizing his vast potential. He was our ace when it came down to the playoffs last year and I predict will remain our ace for quite some time. I personally expect Garland to be the odd man out at the end of the year when he doesnt live up to last years performance, and makes room for BMac in the rotation.

 

It's not that people don't like him or his ability, it's that there are too many starters and it seems like someone has to go. Now, maybe we are all wrong and KW wants it this way, but it made sense for Jose to leave or be traded because of his contract. I don't think anyone is really pushing for a trade, we all just want to know what happens next.

[allupons]

It's not that people don't like him or his ability, it's that there are too many starters and it seems like someone has to go. Now, maybe we are all wrong and KW wants it this way, but it made sense for Jose to leave or be traded because of his contract. I don't think anyone is really pushing for a trade, we all just want to know what happens next.

 

I agree we have an abundance of SP and someone has to go to make room for BMac, however I do not think it should be the best SP we have. Contreras is simply unhittable ever since the all star break of last year. He is our only high strike out guy, and there is a reason high strike out guys dominate. Since Coop worked out his mental problems he is simply the ace until proven otherwise imho. Thats why I like the signing as I would be far less upset to see Garland or even Garcia go.

[beck72]

I don't buy the argument that the sox have to deal one of their SP's now. The sox know their pitching is what will keep them contending every year.

 

A more likely scenario is dealing a top prospect [Josh Fields, Owens] with a non-contending team [one of the perennial cellar dwellars] for a reliever. Though it won't net a top reliever, it could be a very solid vet. Though closer to the deadline, it probably could get a better pitcher.

 

If the sox wanted to add a top flight bullpen guy, a guy like Crede or Dye would have to go. I don't see that either. They may have to dip into the farm system to fill the Dustin void. But waiting until the deadline is probably the best bet.

[beautox]

I don't buy the argument that the sox have to deal one of their SP's now. The sox know their pitching is what will keep them contending every year.

 

A more likely scenario is dealing a top prospect [Josh Fields, Owens] with a non-contending team [one of the perennial cellar dwellars] for a reliever. Though it won't net a top reliever, it could be a very solid vet. Though closer to the deadline, it probably could get a better pitcher.

 

If the sox wanted to add a top flight bullpen guy, a guy like Crede or Dye would have to go. I don't see that either. They may have to dip into the farm system to fill the Dustin void. But waiting until the deadline is probably the best bet.

 

I agree, and did anyone listen to KW during yesterdays game with the braves in the booth with Hawk and DJ? he said hes going to follow the braves philosphy and stockpile our starting pitching and when the opertunity arises draw from our farm. I would'nt be supprised if Brandon does'nt sniff the rotation fulltime till after '07 all the while getting better via the bullpen. i know alot of people both here and on WSI are antsy about getting brandon into the rotation, but id rather take 5 vets and let brendan evlove into more of a scot shields role in the bullpen, his time will come but for now he affords us the oppertunity to start a dynasty on the south side in the bullpen.

[nitetrain8601]

I agree, and did anyone listen to KW during yesterdays game with the braves in the booth with Hawk and DJ? he said hes going to follow the braves philosphy and stockpile our starting pitching and when the opertunity arises draw from our farm. I would'nt be supprised if Brandon does'nt sniff the rotation fulltime till after '07 all the while getting better via the bullpen. i know alot of people both here and on WSI are antsy about getting brandon into the rotation, but id rather take 5 vets and let brendan evlove into more of a scot shields role in the bullpen, his time will come but for now he affords us the oppertunity to start a dynasty on the south side in the bullpen. 

 

I agree big time with this.

[VAfan]

Just read the news, and as anyone who knows my views on this board, I'm ECSTATIC!!!

 

For all our great starting pitching, JOSE CONTRERAS IS THE ONE WHO GIVES US A CHANCE TO WIN MORE WORLD SERIES. He is the only guy among our top 5 who is a true #1 postseason starter. And by holding down that critical spot, the rest of our guys just completely overmatch what anyone else can throw at us.

 

What I can't believe is how many guys still want to trade the strength of the team -- quality starting pitching depth. It's true that I posted a controversial thread in the offseason -- Sign Contreras, deal Vazquez midseason. We finally have the first half of that equation in the bank. But even I'm not eager to deal right now. I want all 5 of our starters to be lights-out.

 

Brandon McCarthy? We need him to become a bullpen star at the moment and provide starters insurance. He'll get his chance to be a starting ace in due course. After all, I think we've got him for at least 5 more years.

 

In the meantime, just celebrate the fact we have the best rotation in baseball locked up through 2007. Teams that win multiple World Series titles in a short span start with great pitching. I like our chances of joining that elite group now more than ever.

 

GO WHITE SOX!!! BACK-TO-BACK WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!!!

[beck72]

I agree, and did anyone listen to KW during yesterdays game with the braves in the booth with Hawk and DJ? he said hes going to follow the braves philosphy and stockpile our starting pitching and when the opertunity arises draw from our farm. I would'nt be supprised if Brandon does'nt sniff the rotation fulltime till after '07 all the while getting better via the bullpen. i know alot of people both here and on WSI are antsy about getting brandon into the rotation, but id rather take 5 vets and let brendan evlove into more of a scot shields role in the bullpen, his time will come but for now he affords us the oppertunity to start a dynasty on the south side in the bullpen. 

Welcome to Soxtalk!

 

I think it's a lot easier to find and groom bullpen guys than it is starting pitchers. The difference between having a rookie or young pitcher get 1-3 outs compared to 18 or 21 is like night and day. The sox overall are in pretty good shape pitching wise, esp. with 6 healthy, high quality SP's.

 

I certainly expect BMac to do well in the bullpen. He throws strikes with 3 pitches. Not many relievers can do that. Hell, not a lot of starters can do that. He is the most likely to take over for Hermanson. Not that he could step in as closer. But he'll be very valuable to the Sox if he stays healthy. Hopefully his body responds to the relief role. He has the attitude. Now he just needs his health to cooperate.

The question is will Thornton and Boone be able to give the sox 100 innings between them? Time will tell.

[WCSox]

I don't buy the argument that the sox have to deal one of their SP's now. The sox know their pitching is what will keep them contending every year.

 

A more likely scenario is dealing a top prospect [Josh Fields, Owens] with a non-contending team [one of the perennial cellar dwellars] for a reliever. Though it won't net a top reliever, it could be a very solid vet. Though closer to the deadline, it probably could get a better pitcher.

 

I agree with that. A middle reliever with an ERA somewhere in the 3's for a decent prospect would be fine with me.

 

If the sox wanted to add a top flight bullpen guy, a guy like Crede or Dye would have to go. I don't see that either. They may have to dip into the farm system to fill the Dustin void. But waiting until the deadline is probably the best bet.

 

I think that they'd trade a starter (probably Vazquez) before Crede or Dye. I wouldn't want Crede or Dye to go, either. A starter would have more trade value than those guys anyway. Assuming that last year's playoff meltdown doesn't carry over into this season, I'd want Lidge. Jenks, who is already in Ozzie's doghouse, could be moved to the set-up role.

[beautox]

Welcome to Soxtalk! 

 

I think it's a lot easier to find and groom bullpen guys than it is starting pitchers. The difference between having a rookie or young pitcher get 1-3 outs compared to 18 or 21 is like night and day. The sox overall are in pretty good shape pitching wise, esp. with 6 healthy, high quality SP's.

 

I certainly expect BMac to do well in the bullpen. He throws strikes with 3 pitches. Not many relievers can do that. Hell, not a lot of starters can do that. He is the most likely to take over for Hermanson. Not that he could step in as closer. But he'll be very valuable to the Sox if he stays healthy. Hopefully his body responds to the relief role. He has the attitude. Now he just needs his health to cooperate.

The question is will Thornton and Boone be able to give the sox 100 innings between them? Time will tell.

 

i agree, but you've got to play the hand your delt, and the way its looking we've been delt a full house, were stacked. Im hoping both Logan and Thorton can keep it togeather if thats the case our bullpen with its few ?s could become one of the best in the bigs. Anyways Thanks for the welcoming glad to be here.

[FlaCWS]

I have a couple of issues with this deal:

 

1. God bless Contreras for what he did for us down the stretch, and in the playoffs, last year, but remember that the guy has had one good HALF season in the majors. He was absolutely awful with the Yankees, and barely mediocre from mid '04 to mid '05 with the Sox.

 

2. Contreras is listed at 34 years old but we all know El Duque had himself 4 years younger than he really was. If that's the common practice with the Cubans, then Contreras is 38. We just locked him up till age 42. Yikes.

 

3. Buerhle is only 27 and has had 5 good seaons with the Sox (as opposed to one half). He is the true ace (and face) of this team. I realize we have him locked up for 2 years, but he'll still be only 29 at that point. Why not lock him up long term now, instead of committing all that money to Contreras? This is assuming, of course, that Kenny hasn't been trying to do this all along. I hope he has.

 

I'm not trying to be negative, just looking at the devil's advocate side of things. Contreras was the man for us last year, but to me he hasn't proved enough to warrant this extension. Just my two cents.

[iWiN4PreP]

I agree with you on all points made.

[Felix]

I have a couple of issues with this deal:

 

1. God bless Contreras for what he did for us down the stretch, and in the playoffs, last year, but remember that the guy has had one good HALF season in the majors. He was absolutely awful with the Yankees, and barely mediocre from mid '04 to mid '05 with the Sox.

 

2. Contreras is listed at 34 years old but we all know El Duque had himself 4 years younger than he really was. If that's the common practice with the Cubans, then Contreras is 38. We just locked him up till age 42. Yikes.

 

3. Buerhle is only 27 and  has had 5 good seaons with the Sox (as opposed to one half). He is the true ace (and face) of this team. I realize we have him locked up for 2 years, but he'll still be only 29 at that point. Why not lock him up long term now, instead of committing all that money to Contreras? This is assuming, of course, that Kenny hasn't been trying to do this all along. I hope he has.

 

I'm not trying to be negative, just looking at the devil's advocate side of things. Contreras was the man for us last year, but to me he hasn't proved enough to warrant this extension. Just my two cents.

Someone else gets it!

[WCSox]

I have a couple of issues with this deal:

 

1. God bless Contreras for what he did for us down the stretch, and in the playoffs, last year, but remember that the guy has had one good HALF season in the majors. He was absolutely awful with the Yankees, and barely mediocre from mid '04 to mid '05 with the Sox.

 

2. Contreras is listed at 34 years old but we all know El Duque had himself 4 years younger than he really was. If that's the common practice with the Cubans, then Contreras is 38. We just locked him up till age 42. Yikes.

 

3. Buerhle is only 27 and  has had 5 good seaons with the Sox (as opposed to one half). He is the true ace (and face) of this team. I realize we have him locked up for 2 years, but he'll still be only 29 at that point. Why not lock him up long term now, instead of committing all that money to Contreras? This is assuming, of course, that Kenny hasn't been trying to do this all along. I hope he has.

 

I'm not trying to be negative, just looking at the devil's advocate side of things. Contreras was the man for us last year, but to me he hasn't proved enough to warrant this extension. Just my two cents.

 

I agree. I would've liked to see Buehrle re-signed instead, but maybe they're waiting until next season to determine who they want to keep around.

 

Then again, Contreras' contract averages around $9 million/year, which isn't bad considering that he was nearly unhittable in the second half of last year. In a worst-case scenario (say, Contreras posts a 5.50 ERA by July), KW could always eat some of the contract and shop him for a reliever. Quality starting pitchers (even old ones with $29 million contracts) are inherently valuable trade bait.

 

Also, it was nice to see this deal get done so that his future wasn't a distraction. Contreras seems to be more easily-distracted by off-the-field issues than a lot of other players. While the situation with his family during his first season in NY was understandably affecting his performance on the mound, he didn't get much better after his family made it safe to America. It wasn't until El Duque took him under his wing last year that he re-gained his confidence and pitched to his potential.

[jphat007]

I have a couple of issues with this deal:

 

1. God bless Contreras for what he did for us down the stretch, and in the playoffs, last year, but remember that the guy has had one good HALF season in the majors. He was absolutely awful with the Yankees, and barely mediocre from mid '04 to mid '05 with the Sox.

 

2. Contreras is listed at 34 years old but we all know El Duque had himself 4 years younger than he really was. If that's the common practice with the Cubans, then Contreras is 38. We just locked him up till age 42. Yikes.

 

3. Buerhle is only 27 and  has had 5 good seaons with the Sox (as opposed to one half). He is the true ace (and face) of this team. I realize we have him locked up for 2 years, but he'll still be only 29 at that point. Why not lock him up long term now, instead of committing all that money to Contreras? This is assuming, of course, that Kenny hasn't been trying to do this all along. I hope he has.

 

I'm not trying to be negative, just looking at the devil's advocate side of things. Contreras was the man for us last year, but to me he hasn't proved enough to warrant this extension. Just my two cents.

 

He had a good 03, a bad 04, and a good 05.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I have a couple of issues with this deal:

 

1. God bless Contreras for what he did for us down the stretch, and in the playoffs, last year, but remember that the guy has had one good HALF season in the majors. He was absolutely awful with the Yankees, and barely mediocre from mid '04 to mid '05 with the Sox.

 

2. Contreras is listed at 34 years old but we all know El Duque had himself 4 years younger than he really was. If that's the common practice with the Cubans, then Contreras is 38. We just locked him up till age 42. Yikes.

 

3. Buerhle is only 27 and  has had 5 good seaons with the Sox (as opposed to one half). He is the true ace (and face) of this team. I realize we have him locked up for 2 years, but he'll still be only 29 at that point. Why not lock him up long term now, instead of committing all that money to Contreras? This is assuming, of course, that Kenny hasn't been trying to do this all along. I hope he has.

 

I'm not trying to be negative, just looking at the devil's advocate side of things. Contreras was the man for us last year, but to me he hasn't proved enough to warrant this extension. Just my two cents.

 

Remember what happened when they waited with Konerko? They ended up paying a lot more money than they wanted to. Say they waited until the end of '06, and Jose has another '05 like season, do you realize how much money he would command? Look at what some of these other guys are making.

 

And I disagree with the notion that Jose has had one good half in his 3 seasons. He was very good in '03. Inconsistent in '04. Stellar in '05. And not just in the second half. If you go check out his '05 game log, he really only had 3 or 4 rough starts leading up to the all-star break that jacked his era up over 4. He was very good through April, May and the first week or so of June. Considering what some of these other guys are making, some who are nowhere near the caliber or even as accomplished as Jose, I'd say we got him for a very reasonable price.

[WCSox]

He had a good 03

 

He was pretty bad in the '03 playoffs.

[Guest JimH]

2. Contreras is listed at 34 years old but we all know El Duque had himself 4 years younger than he really was. If that's the common practice with the Cubans, then Contreras is 38. We just locked him up till age 42. Yikes.

 

3. Buerhle is only 27 and  has had 5 good seaons with the Sox (as opposed to one half). He is the true ace (and face) of this team. I realize we have him locked up for 2 years, but he'll still be only 29 at that point. Why not lock him up long term now, instead of committing all that money to Contreras? This is assuming, of course, that Kenny hasn't been trying to do this all along. I hope he has.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In a recent interview, Contreras said he lived in Cuba for 32 years, so it is fair to assume his real DOB is Nov. 1969, making him 36.

 

It is not an either/or situation in terms of commiting to Contreras or Buehrle. They will sit down with Buehrle at an appropriate time and see if he wants to stay long term or if there's some smoke to all this St. Louis talk. I suspect the appropriate time will be after this season.

[Felix]

Remember what happened when they waited with Konerko?  They ended up paying a lot more money than they wanted to.  Say they waited until the end of '06,  and Jose has another '05 like season,  do you realize how much money he would command?  Look at what some of these other guys are making.

None of that would matter though, since Brandon McCarthy would be filling in the rotation. With Paulie, there was no other option for the Sox at 1B, so we were forced into overspending for him. With Count however, we have other options (which also happen to be much cheaper), so letting him go into free agency if he repeated his '05 performance wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, and we wouldn't be pressed to overpay for him.

[FlaCWS]

Remember what happened when they waited with Konerko?  They ended up paying a lot more money than they wanted to.  Say they waited until the end of '06,  and Jose has another '05 like season,  do you realize how much money he would command?  Look at what some of these other guys are making.

 

And I disagree with the notion that Jose has had one good half in his 3 seasons.  He was very good in '03.  Inconsistent in '04.  Stellar in '05.  And not just in the second half.  If you go check out his '05 game log,  he really only had 3 or 4 rough starts leading up to the all-star break that jacked his era up over 4.  He was very good through April,  May and the first week or so of June.  Considering what some of these other guys are making,  some who are nowhere near the caliber or even as accomplished as Jose,  I'd say we got him for a very reasonable price.

 

I totally agree with your point on Konerko. That is also my point with Buerhle. Don't wait to get something done. Reinsdorf has opened up the wallet this year, which is great, but his wallet is still not on the level of the Yankees or Red Sox. It's not a bottomless pit and we have to pick our battles.

 

I'm just saying Buerhle has proven over the long term that he is worth a big contract. Contreras hasn't. And if he does go out and have a great '06 (which I hope he does) and we can't keep him, then it's not a big deal. He'll be going on 37 or 38 and we still have Vasquez, Garcia, Buerhle, Garland - and hopefully McCarthy lives up to what he's shown so far.

[Jordan4life_2007]

He was pretty bad in the '03 playoffs.

 

And he was pretty good in the '05 playoffs.

[hammerhead johnson]

Ummm, yeah. How in the hell were we able to sign this beast for so cheap? Less than 10 million a year?

 

In the second half of 2005, he was arguably the best starter in all of baseball outside of Johan, and easily our team MVP. No, it was not AJ, sorry.

 

I'm pumped. I dunno about some of y'all, but this is terrific news as far as I'm concerned.

[Jordan4life_2007]

None of that would matter though, since Brandon McCarthy would be filling in the rotation.  With Paulie, there was no other option for the Sox at 1B, so we were forced into overspending for him.  With Count however, we have other options (which also happen to be much cheaper), so letting him go into free agency if he repeated his '05 performance wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, and we wouldn't be pressed to overpay for him.

 

But we didn't overpay. Overpaying is what the Yankees did with Pavano and Wright. Overpaying is what the Red Sox did with Clement. Overpaying is what the Blue Jays did with Burnett. Considering the current market, we got Jose at a bargain price.

[bmags]

I have a couple of issues with this deal:

 

1. God bless Contreras for what he did for us down the stretch, and in the playoffs, last year, but remember that the guy has had one good HALF season in the majors. He was absolutely awful with the Yankees, and barely mediocre from mid '04 to mid '05 with the Sox.

 

2. Contreras is listed at 34 years old but we all know El Duque had himself 4 years younger than he really was. If that's the common practice with the Cubans, then Contreras is 38. We just locked him up till age 42. Yikes.

 

3. Buerhle is only 27 and  has had 5 good seaons with the Sox (as opposed to one half). He is the true ace (and face) of this team. I realize we have him locked up for 2 years, but he'll still be only 29 at that point. Why not lock him up long term now, instead of committing all that money to Contreras? This is assuming, of course, that Kenny hasn't been trying to do this all along. I hope he has.

 

I'm not trying to be negative, just looking at the devil's advocate side of things. Contreras was the man for us last year, but to me he hasn't proved enough to warrant this extension. Just my two cents.

 

I take issue with your first point, contreras had a tough month but his run support for the first half was absolutely terrible, i don't htink we scored more than three runs in a bunch of his starts and he kept getting no decisions, he threw a masterful game against the indians last year, left with a 5-2 lead, and shingo gave up 3 hrs in the ninth! His ERA was pretty damn good from april-may and much more deserving than his record showed.