clujer420 Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 I was thinking about what the Sox need to do, here at the 1/3 point of the 2003 season. There are a few things. 1) Starting rotation -- no work needed IMO. Loaiza and Colon have been solid for us this year. Loaiza has been a monster, while Colon is starting to show signs of dominance (2 CG's in a row). The 3 guys behind them (Buehrle, Garland, Wright) have struggled, but have also shown signs of snapping out of it. Danny had a poor game last night in Cleveland, but the game before that he looked very sharp. He's just got to keep his walk total down. Buehrle obviously has been a big disappointment so far, but I've gotta believe that he's going to snap out of it very soon -- he's too good not to. And Garland started off horribly, but over the past 3 weeks or so has had a very nice ERA and, in his last start, looked awesome. So I say stick with what we have in our starting 5 -- not only because I think they're good, but also because it's very difficult to make rotation changes this far into the season. 2) Bullpen -- SOS! The supposed strength of this team has been far from that so far. Marte, Wunsch, and to an extent Gordon have done very well for us, but other than them it has been ugly. Koch has started to do much better over the past few weeks, so that is a very good sign. But 2 of our main guys -- White and Glover -- have been horrid. Glover started off good, but over the past couple of weeks his ERA has ballooned, and opponents are roping him (something like a .350 average). Rick White has been awful all season, and he needs to go. The Sox should release him and call up one of our youngens from the minors -- Almonte maybe? Whoever they call up can't do worse than White has done so far. Also, I'm not at all sold on David Sanders. Maybe I just need to see more of him, I don't know. But as far as Glover goes, I think we need to package him with someone (I'll get to that momentarily) and get him out of town, because I think it's only going to get worse from here-on-in. 3) Defense -- we've actually been half-way decent overall this season. We've had a couple of VERY, VERY ugly games, but for the most part, we've played fairly good defense. Borchard is looking pretty darned comfortable in CF, and the DP combo of Jimenez and Valentin looks like they are getting more used to each other everytime they turn a 6-4-3 or a 4-6-3. Having Frank at first -- I like it A LOT. He needs to stay right where he is. 3 games, and he's been flawless. "3 games, big wow" -- STFU. 4) Offense -- Who'da thunk it? The offense has shown that there IS a light at the end of the tunnel, but they aren't doing it frequently enough. I think Frank is showing signs that he is feeling more comfortable at the plate (especially since moving from DH to 1B), and that's huge for us. As the Cleveland announcers said in Friday's game, Frank can carry this team when he gets on a roll. He tried to do that, but our pitchers wouldn't cooperate. Magglio is also hitting nicely lately. Had a s***ty game Friday (0-5, 3 k's), but he's got his average hovering just under the .290-.300 range, so that's a good sign. D'Angelo has also continued his consistent hitting. He's definitely been our most consistent hitter. Oh, wait, I take that back. Our most consistent hitter, without a doubt, has been Paul SLOW-nerko (did I make that up? If so, LOL). He's been in the low .200's all year, and he's just painful to watch up there. We need to make a trade and get him out of our lineup, because he's not doing a thing to help us. He's an average first baseman, so his money is earned at the plate, and so far he's earned NOTHING. If we can find a taker, we should trade him along with Glover for a couple of prospects. Then, platoon Frank and Daubach as our 1B (with Frank getting 75-80% of the starts). Daubber will start hitting better if he gets regular AB's, IMO. Also, keep Lee in the #2 hole. He's starting to show some of his late-'02 patience at the plate, and his 2 steals on Friday show that he can flash some speed, which is a great thing to have at the top of the lineup. Valentin has been awful, but I think we're stuck with him for now. Crede has also been crappy, but he's still young so I'll cut him some slack. Other than that, we've been pretty decent. Lee has turned it up over the past 6 weeks, and Olivo is impressing me. Borchard is starting to look very comfortable at the plate also. I like the chances of this team putting up some crooked numbers when it starts to warm up (which is gonna be any day now). We're about 7 games or so out of the lead, but I think that if we make a few changes and continue to move in the right direction, the wins will start to come a lot more frequently than they have so far. Gotta stay positive! Go Sox!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Glover hasn't been bad every time - he's had a mixture of good and bad outings. And that makes it hard to figure. The rest of your post, well done, very comprehensive, great analysis, and I could go along with it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Glover's been getting worse and worse. He might be competing with Rick White before too long. Everyone seems to like him, but I just don't see his redeeming qualities as a big league pitcher. Even Jason Gage, in his recent engaging piece, wants to keep Glover after reshaping the Sox roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted May 31, 2003 Author Share Posted May 31, 2003 Glover hasn't been bad every time - he's had a mixture of good and bad outings. And that makes it hard to figure. The rest of your post, well done, very comprehensive, great analysis, and I could go along with it all. True, he hasn't been bad EVERY time, but in May, here are his numbers 13 2/3 IP, 22 hits, 1:1 K/BB ratio, 13 ER (8.56 ERA). That's ugly. And for the season overall, he's got a .346 opp avg and a .519 opp SLG. 16 men on base per 9 IP. That is atrocious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Glover's been getting worse and worse. He might be competing with Rick White before too long. Everyone seems to like him, but I just don't see his redeeming qualities as a big league pitcher. Even Jason Gage, in his recent engaging piece, wants to keep Glover after reshaping the Sox roster. Well, only reason I was keeping Glover is to give him a shot. I don't think he's the answer anymore. I've absolutely loved his stuff in the past. He always had good velocity and great movement and then could mix it with a nice curve and changeup. Now nothing has any movement and his curve is rolling more and more everytime is out there. Either he's hurt or just lost it or their is a major flaw with his mechanics. This guy could hit 94 when he was first up here, now I haven't seen it near that on a consistent basis. And that 94 was with movement. He's been a huge dissapointment. Its just with a player like him, I don't think you can get much value for him, other then package him in a trade with one of the others if the team asks for another player. Glover could actually go with Konerko to help bring in Nevin or Kotsay. I just figure Konerko is so stinkin hard to move. It took me so long to come up with Nevin thinking that actually may be a legitimate way to dump Konerko. Otherwise I don't see anyone taking him without having to pay basically all of his salary. With the bullpen in my article I wanted to keep the younger guys around, give them half a season, then if you see one or two that are really struggling you fill those pieces by signing two good vets to one or two year deals that can come in and add depth. I like Ring, Munoz and Marte. The question is which righties will step up. Some of our starters in the minors could turn into relievers. And if Bobby Jenks ever failed as a starter, he'd be hands down one of the very best closers in all of baseball. When I said he can hit 100 I didn't exaggerate. He's been clocked as high as 102!!!!!!!!. His curve is considered once of the best curves in the entire minors too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 There is no way ... whatsoever ... the Angels will give up on Bobby Jenks. They are very, very high on him. Having said that, anything is possible in this world, but don't hold your breath thinking the White Sox will pry Jenks away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 have you been watching the same team we all have been watching??????? the defense sucks.. the offense is horrid at best and the pitching.. outside of loz sucks to the max.. hoover couldnt suck more.........geez us we need more than fine tuning.. we need a complete overhaul..........kw needed a bit of fine tuning when he took over and he turned this team into the s*** it is currently..............our pitching sucks, our defense sucks more and our offense is the worst by far... if you think it only needs a bit of fine tuning your living in a fantasy world......the white flag is on the pole and only a matter of time before it climbs up that pole.... we arent keepin colon were not gonna keep guys like frank and paulie and maggs, jose will be cut out soon, and guys like lee, buehrle and such will be gone due to their contracts coming due...this team needs more than fine tuning to make a run at second place.........face it the season is done and over with as it stands now.. hell we cant even beat the tribe and they suck.............sorry but the truth hurts like hell ............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 have you been watching the same team we all have been watching??????? the defense sucks.. the offense is horrid at best and the pitching.. outside of loz sucks to the max.. hoover couldnt suck more.........geez us we need more than fine tuning.. we need a complete overhaul..........kw needed a bit of fine tuning when he took over and he turned this team into the s*** it is currently..............our pitching sucks, our defense sucks more and our offense is the worst by far... if you think it only needs a bit of fine tuning your living in a fantasy world......the white flag is on the pole and only a matter of time before it climbs up that pole.... we arent keepin colon were not gonna keep guys like frank and paulie and maggs, jose will be cut out soon, and guys like lee, buehrle and such will be gone due to their contracts coming due...this team needs more than fine tuning to make a run at second place.........face it the season is done and over with as it stands now.. hell we cant even beat the tribe and they suck.............sorry but the truth hurts like hell ............. Carefull HSC, If you do not kiss the ass of this sorry ass team, you may be called a negative Sox fan. I agree this team sucks top to bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Carefull HSC, If you do not kiss the ass of this sorry ass team, you may be called a negative Sox fan. I agree this team sucks top to bottom. :fyou it...... like i care what anyone thinks.. this team sucks and thats a fact.. the numbers dont lie........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Carefull HSC, If you do not kiss the ass of this sorry ass team, you may be called a negative Sox fan. I agree this team sucks top to bottom. See people need to see the truth. IT ISNT NEGATIVE IF ITS TRUE!!! This team absolutely sucks. There is nothing negative about that whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 See people need to see the truth. IT ISNT NEGATIVE IF ITS TRUE!!! This team absolutely sucks. There is nothing negative about that whatsoever. thats what im sayin... cant hide the facts.....we cant even beat f***in cleveland with a 3 run lead... so what does that say... loudly...WE SUCK........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 thats what im sayin... cant hide the facts.....we cant even beat f***in cleveland with a 3 run lead... so what does that say... loudly...WE SUCK........ Personally, I find denial more negative than reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 See people need to see the truth. IT ISNT NEGATIVE IF ITS TRUE!!! This team absolutely sucks. There is nothing negative about that whatsoever. BMR , I was being sarcastic, when i stated this last week I was called a negative Sox fan and nothing has changed in my mind this team SUCKS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 BMR , I was being sarcastic, when i stated this last week I was called a negative Sox fan and nothing has changed in my mind this team SUCKS. Yes i know. Im having your back here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 kinda hard to be sarcastic when all the numbers back it up.... your not a bad sox fan in my book just an honest one........no more rose colored glasses...........flat out this team sucks and thats the facts... dispute it all you want to try to but when it all comes down to reality you cant dispute the fact that were going nowhere fast.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Damn when i dont eat very much, i get buzzed really easy!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Last week I would have disagreed with you. Now, I agree. Retooling, or whatever you want to call it, sounds a whole lot more fun then "being a powerhouse." We have 1 of 2 options this year....either this team gets hot as hell in June and July, and they get back into the AL Central race(highly unlikely), or they trade off whoever's name isn't Magglio, Mark, Bartolo, Esteban, Joe, and Miguel, and get what they can....and there are exceptions to those rules. What I suggest we do is get some good talent for 2 or 3 guys here in June....get some speed, get some lefty power....and a prospect here or there. We then play it out until about late July. I kind of like the idea of trading Konerko to San Diego for Nevin....I'd do that now...then have Lee play 1B for the rest of the year, and then trade Rauch and Garland to Cinci for Adam Dunn....and if Cinci wants more....we could probably give them Wright/Stewart as well. It may be a lot of pitching we are giving up....but with an OF of Dunn, Borchard, and Maggs, from either left to right or right to left, is killer, and we add that lefty in the middle of our lineup. I'd trade Daubach to a team that needs an OFer/1Bman...and I'd ask for a solid prospect for him(maybe trade him to Florida once Lee is dealt). Who knows....with me as GM, this whole f***ing thing could look weird as hell by July.....but I guarantee one thing...our offense would be putting up some crooked numbers and our pitching staff would be throwing up some donuts on the scoreboard. I agree that right now, this team sucks ass. However, it is, IMO, early enough to salvage the season and possibly make a winner. We need to retool and revamp this offense...and we have to get it to work in a month and a half. And I hate to bring this up again....but do you think Oakland feels they are out of it, being 5 games back? Do you think Anaheim feels they are out of it, being 9.5 games back? Do you think Arizona feels they are out of it, being 8.5 games back? Once this offense gets going....we could be right back in it. Thing is....this offense is so one-dimensional....that when we get in a funk...we are f***ed. We need speed, and we need guys who do the little things. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted June 1, 2003 Author Share Posted June 1, 2003 have you been watching the same team we all have been watching??????? the defense sucks.. the offense is horrid at best and the pitching.. outside of loz sucks to the max.. hoover couldnt suck more.........geez us we need more than fine tuning.. we need a complete overhaul..........kw needed a bit of fine tuning when he took over and he turned this team into the s*** it is currently..............our pitching sucks, our defense sucks more and our offense is the worst by far... if you think it only needs a bit of fine tuning your living in a fantasy world......the white flag is on the pole and only a matter of time before it climbs up that pole.... we arent keepin colon were not gonna keep guys like frank and paulie and maggs, jose will be cut out soon, and guys like lee, buehrle and such will be gone due to their contracts coming due...this team needs more than fine tuning to make a run at second place.........face it the season is done and over with as it stands now.. hell we cant even beat the tribe and they suck.............sorry but the truth hurts like hell ............. I don't think our defense has been horrid. I've seen probably 80% of the games, so yes, I have seen this team -- and we've made bad plays just like every other team has. We've made 35 errors in 54 games. That error total is as many as or fewer than the Yankees, A's, and Braves. It's also fewer than the Cubs for those who like to bash the North Siders. Crede has made some rookie-like mistakes, and Jose has made his share of errors. But on the whole, I'd say we've done an adequate job. We've thrown out 36% of would-be baserunners (that is an excellent number), and we've turned 53 double plays in 54 games. Those are the numbers. As far as our starting pitching goes, it has been disappointing. However, to say it has "sucked" is a tad excessive. Our average starter goes 6 2/3 innings, which is tied for 6th in all of MLB. We're middle-of-the-road in terms of men on base allowed per 9 innings. And we are 5th in the AL in both ERA (4.31) and opponent's batting average (.258). Not good, but definitely not as bad as it could be when you consider that our #1 and #3 starters (Buehrle and Garland) have been awful. Offensively, we have sucked. There's no other way to put it. But, I've seen some signs of life lately. We're still leaving a lot of runners on base, but we're scoring them more often now than we have all season (not saying much, but it is an improvement. Over our last 6 games, we've averaged nearly 5 runs and 9 hits per game. Carlos, Frank, and Magglio have all shown glimpses of breaking out, and I believe they will soon. Konerko has just been hideous, and I think he should just be benched until we can find a taker. I'm getting ready to say the same for Jose, but at least he just K's in big situations -- SLO-nerko kills possible rallies completely by hitting into DP's. Crede still gets a pass since he's young, but my patience is wearing thin with him too. Olivo has the potential to be a very productive offensive player, and I love watching him hit. Same goes with Borch. So, while this team is much lower in the standings than they should be, we're not THAT bad. Judging by some of our reactions, you'd think we were 15-39 instead of 25-29. Considering how poorly some of our key...KEY...players have been (Buehrle, Garland, Konerko, Valentin, and to an extent Frank), our start could be A LOT worse. Complete overhaul? No. Not necessary. At least not yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 I don't believe this team is that far away. Some fine tuning can do the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 I don't believe this team is that far away. Some fine tuning can do the trick. this team is so far out.. the space shuttle couldnt bring them back into limits again.............fine tuning wont cut it.. this team needs a major overhaul.........start at the top and work its way down to the bat boy......(which by the way anyone else notice that since we let poppy go we have sucked lol)....anyhow....you cant just fine tune a few things and expect great things out of the rest of the season..... we need drastic help and we need it before now so they can start to gel together for next season.......f***, i sound like a cubs fan.. theres always next year, omg shoot me........... please and put me out of this seasons misery......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted June 3, 2003 Author Share Posted June 3, 2003 this team is so far out.. the space shuttle couldnt bring them back into limits again.............fine tuning wont cut it.. this team needs a major overhaul.........start at the top and work its way down to the bat boy......(which by the way anyone else notice that since we let poppy go we have sucked lol)....anyhow....you cant just fine tune a few things and expect great things out of the rest of the season..... we need drastic help and we need it before now so they can start to gel together for next season.......f***, i sound like a cubs fan.. theres always next year, omg shoot me........... please and put me out of this seasons misery......... Maybe some fine-tuning wouldn't work, you could be right. But, I think that this season is young enough that we could make a few moderately big trades in the next couple of weeks, and try things out for a month or so and see how they respond. Maybe if they know they could be the next one to be out, they'd play better. If they turn it around, the AL Central is bad enough that we'd still VERY much be in the race. If they continue to stink it up, you can THEN make more trades, and the "complete overhaul" would be done. Trade Konerko, Koch, Glover, and release Rick White (or try to trade him, but I doubt there would be any takers). Try to get a good prospect or 2, and then call up a couple of guys from the minors (Ring, Almonte, etc) and see how they play for a month or so. If they don't turn it around, then you unload Colon, Gordon, and possibly Frank and/or Lee. Possibly even Buehrle since he's due for arbitration (although, since he's having such a bad year so far, I don't know how much he'll command in arbitration). Sad times for Chicago White Sox baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 i say dump them all but maggs, olivo, loz, marte and borchard and start this f***ed up mess over from scratch.......call up miles for starters.... and get the rest from wherever....i dont care anymore at this point.... we need a fresh new approach..weve tried the oldtimers, the youth movement and a mix of both and nothing is working... fresh new names and faces is just the ticket ......mho........... :fyou this team it sucks......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted June 3, 2003 Author Share Posted June 3, 2003 i say dump them all but maggs, olivo, loz, marte and borchard and start this f***ed up mess over from scratch.......call up miles for starters.... and get the rest from wherever....i dont care anymore at this point.... we need a fresh new approach..weve tried the oldtimers, the youth movement and a mix of both and nothing is working... fresh new names and faces is just the ticket ......mho........... :fyou this team it sucks......... "Get the rest from wherever"? You have to have a plan Michelle, and while I agree that the Sox don't appear to have one at this time, getting rid of all but 4 or 5 players isn't a viable solution. Rome wasn't built in a day, and the Sox aren't going to solve all of their problems overnight -- and they CERTAINLY won't accomplish anyone by getting rid of 80% of the roster. BTW, you'd want the Sox to get rid of Crede? I disagree with that very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 obviously there hasnt been a plan since 2000.......f*** it we can put together a bunch of whatevers and run them out there and they would do a better job than whats being done right now...............as for crede... well....he can stay but only if he gets a bit meaner.......no more of this goody two shoes bible thumper .. oh excuse me while i tag you out s***... he needs to grow a pair....and quick or he will get mowed down.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 this team is so far out.. the space shuttle couldnt bring them back into limits again.............fine tuning wont cut it.. this team needs a major overhaul.........start at the top and work its way down to the bat boy......(which by the way anyone else notice that since we let poppy go we have sucked lol)....anyhow....you cant just fine tune a few things and expect great things out of the rest of the season..... we need drastic help and we need it before now so they can start to gel together for next season.......f***, i sound like a cubs fan.. theres always next year, omg shoot me........... please and put me out of this seasons misery......... I agree the management end of the club needs revamped. I was talking about talent. We have a decent rotation, and the potential for a good bullpen. With these players in our starting lineup, Olivo, Crede, Jiminez, Lee, Borchard, Maggs ... that is a good foundation. Thomas, Konerko, Valentin, Daubach, Rios, White have to go. Koch and Gordon should have some trade value.... if so, let's pull the trigger. We need a good defensive middle infielder that can contribute with the bat and a solid LH hitting out fielder or 1B that can actually run faster than a my 94 year old grandmother. If we come up with the 1B, keep the outfield as is. If we get an OF, move Lee to first and play Borchard in CF or LF depending on who that new player is. Get a good defensive middle infielder, and play Jimenez in the off postion of the acquired Infielder. Bring up the young relievers that everyone raves about to fill out the bullpen. Basically... two starting position players is all we have to acquire .... every thing else would be for depth. As I said, not that far away, talent wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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