My Dixie Normus Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 CBS does a nice job of charting pitches in the game log. Thorton just appeared to be really wild in his 1.1 innings last night. He threw 12 balls, 12 strikes but the balls were way up, way outside, way inside and low. I am not sure I would want this guy in there in too many situations. Last night was one of them but I am not sure how many times we are going to have 7 run leads for him to work with. There seems to be a little more work to be done on this work in progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 It was also his first game for a new team who happened to be on national television while coming off a world series. The K from him and no walks were by far a better sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 like heads said, the no walks was a big plus (and a suprise). He got guys out, and from what i remember, wasn't hit hard at all. Now cliff on the other hand.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 IIRC, he didn't have much movement on his pitches and the last out was a liner to left, but he got the job done without walks. He might be OK as a mop-up guy. Agreed that Politte didn't look good last night. He can't be realistically expected to post a 2.00 ERA again, but he needs to keep it under 4.00. Otherwise, we might be forced to trade for a veteran long-reliever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Thornton looked promising to me last night. He had a few pitches that were pretty wild, but he was also working while ahead in the count to several guys, and racking up a few balls in-between pitches fouled away. If you start a guy off 1-2, it's ok to miss with a couple pitches if you're trying to get the batter to chase something, and he was doing a little of that. The thing that worried me with Thornton last night was that once he did get ahead of guys like Boone at the end...he didn't seem to be able to just put them away. When you throw 96+ from the left side, you ought to be able to do something to put a guy away within a pitch or two after you get them 1-2, but they were able to foul off a bunch of his strikes. That worried me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Apr 3, 2006 -> 10:11 AM) IIRC, he didn't have much movement on his pitches and the last out was a liner to left, but he got the job done without walks. He might be OK as a mop-up guy. Agreed that Politte didn't look good last night. He can't be realistically expected to post a 2.00 ERA again, but he needs to keep it under 4.00. Otherwise, we might be forced to trade for a veteran long-reliever. First off...Politte is not a long reliever, he's a short reliever. And secondly...we already have a damn good long reliever. He demolished the Indians for 3 innings last night. And he needs a shave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misplaced_Sox Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Politte had great movement on his pitches.... just was no locating them. I am not going to worry about Cliff, I do think he will have another very good season. His sinker was downright the nastiess I have seen it. Major bite. His slider was still good. His fastball was just all over the place. I thought watching Thornton pitch he did not seem that wild but had a tendency I believe to over throw on occasion. He just needs to settle down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 QUOTE(My Dixie Normus @ Apr 3, 2006 -> 04:59 PM) CBS does a nice job of charting pitches in the game log. Thorton just appeared to be really wild in his 1.1 innings last night. He threw 12 balls, 12 strikes but the balls were way up, way outside, way inside and low. I am not sure I would want this guy in there in too many situations. Last night was one of them but I am not sure how many times we are going to have 7 run leads for him to work with. There seems to be a little more work to be done on this work in progress. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I disagree. I don't think he was very wild at all. I was pleasantly surprised by his performance last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 I thought they both looked alright, its seems like they had there nerves going pretty good and i think the rain was a factor. Than again me pitching probably would have looked good compared to the Indians bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Politte is going to struggle this year, and will be relegated to the back of the bullpen by mid-season. Despite this, this Sox won't miss him much with super long guy BMAC, super short guy Cotts, and a hopefully super closer Jenks in addition to their stable of starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Apr 3, 2006 -> 09:03 AM) In a big game situation, Thornton might be brought out like he was last night, but just to face Hafner. He K'd Hafner with a pretty good sequence(from what I could tell in my seat) but them came back out for the next inning. Im not sure how much that is going to happen. On a related note, Cliff did not look good at all last night. His velocity was way down and he got hit hard. Its something we brought up on the show today. By far the least impressive of everyone that played last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 QUOTE(Misplaced_Sox @ Apr 3, 2006 -> 11:16 AM) Politte had great movement on his pitches.... just was no locating them. I am not going to worry about Cliff, I do think he will have another very good season. His sinker was downright the nastiess I have seen it. Major bite. His slider was still good. His fastball was just all over the place. I thought watching Thornton pitch he did not seem that wild but had a tendency I believe to over throw on occasion. He just needs to settle down. Agreed. His stuff looked really good. Tight break on his slider and a fairly good fastball. He just couldn't locate to save his life, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Apr 3, 2006 -> 05:43 PM) His velocity was way down and he got hit hard. Its something we brought up on the show today. By far the least impressive of everyone that played last night. According to statistics based on balls put in play, Politte was the luckiest pitcher in baseball last season. His fastball was down a couple of mph, and didn't seem to have a lot of zip. It's still early though, so hopefully his arm strength will build up. McCarthy looked great last night though, which was good to see. Also, Thornton's never going to have pinpoint control. If he can throw strikes, he'll be a useful reliever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Politte was the luckiest pitcher in baseball last season. Yep. Politte made some kind of crazy deal with the devil last year. Like I said earlier, he's a career of mediocrity that struck gold last year, I see him buried at the back end of the bullpen by midseason, but I won't matter that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 3, 2006 -> 09:50 AM) According to statistics based on balls put in play, Politte was the luckiest pitcher in baseball last season. His fastball was down a couple of mph, and didn't seem to have a lot of zip. It's still early though, so hopefully his arm strength will build up. McCarthy looked great last night though, which was good to see. Also, Thornton's never going to have pinpoint control. If he can throw strikes, he'll be a useful reliever. The nice thing about Thornton is his arm. You can see why the Sox were willing to take a chance on him and Coop seems to have done a good job getting guys to throw strikes. His slider doesn't look great, but it looks solid enough to keep hitters off balance. McCarthy really looked good. He snapped a few nice curve's and as he develops I expect that to become a plus pitch along with his changeup and those two pitches will help make that fastball (mixed w/his good command) and good to very good pitch. Brandon's command wasn't at his finest, but he still looked sharp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 I was definitely encouraged by Thornton's performance. His fastball was consistently around 94, and on TV it looked like it had a little bit of cutter-like action to it. Plus he threw one really nice slider to Hafner that I was surprised he didn't swing at. I can see how he gets in trouble though. He threw a lot of pitches that weren't even close, and he hung a few sliders that should have gone a long way. As long as we limit his innings in high pressure situations against guys that can really hurt him, it looks like he can be effective. Politte definitely looked off. His fastball was around 90 and he couldn't spot anything. His slider had some decent break on it though. I think he might just be a little rusty. B-Mac was awesome though, it looks like he could be a major factor in the pen (although it makes me question whether we really needed to resign Contreras). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 I'm not going to go nuts over Cliff's outing yesterday but I definitely think it's unrealistic to exect him to do what he did last year. I'm expecting him to put up around the numbers he did in 04. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 IMO, none of the mentioned pitchers in this topic looked especially good last night, but overall they got the job done, so you'll get nothing but a smile from me (for the time being). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 3, 2006 -> 10:14 AM) First off...Politte is not a long reliever, he's a short reliever. And secondly...we already have a damn good long reliever. He demolished the Indians for 3 innings last night. And he needs a shave. So, Politte can't go more than an inning? I realize that's not how he's typically used, but we're going to need somebody other than B-Mac who can be relied upon to throw more than an inning at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Apr 3, 2006 -> 11:22 AM) So, Politte can't go more than an inning? I realize that's not how he's typically used, but we're going to need somebody other than B-Mac who can be relied upon to throw more than an inning at a time. Thornton. Cotts. BMac. And if it comes down to it, Jenks. All can throw 1+ innings when needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 3, 2006 -> 11:23 AM) Thornton. Cotts. BMac. And if it comes down to it, Jenks. All can throw 1+ innings when needed. I don't trust Thornton with anything less than a four-run lead and the jury is still out on whether or not Jenks can get it done over the course of a full season. There's obviously no reason to panic now, but I'm hoping that KW will keep a close eye on this and make a deal down the road if need be. Edited April 3, 2006 by WCSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Politte lost a couple MPH on his fastball last year. He started throwing way too many sliders and 2 seamers toward the end of the season. I hoped he'd regain his velocity with rest. I don't think it's going to happen though. If he can't get that 4 seamer up and in to RH's, he's going to have trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 McCarthy really looked good. He snapped a few nice curve's and as he develops I expect that to become a plus pitch along with his changeup and those two pitches will help make that fastball (mixed w/his good command) and good to very good pitch. Brandon's command wasn't at his finest, but he still looked sharp. Going off of that, why did we just sign Contreras and JonG to long-term deals when their is no way in the world BMAC should not be pencilled into the rotation (I think this year) but next year at the freaking latest? BMAC is essentially untouchable in my mind. He still has plenty of time before arbitration, and he's ready to be an above average starter in MLB now. Imagine if he can fill out his frame a little and get that fastball up into the mid 90's--he's going to be a beast. His control was looking dominant at times last year, times during spring training, and now in his first outing in 2006. It's hard to be objective when dealing with a player like Brandon, but I think I'm being fairly reasonable in predicting ERA+ from him in the 125 range + 200 innnings next season. I just looked up his PECOTA, and they don't seem to liek him that much. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Dixie Normus Posted April 3, 2006 Author Share Posted April 3, 2006 Thorton seemed to cross up AJ a couple of times. AJ was stabbing at pitches outside the zone. That indicates to me that the pitch was not where it was supposed to be. In a tight ball game, the last thing you want to see is a ball go to the back stop. I could be wrong I had a bad angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WookieOnRitalin Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 No offense guys, but you are tragically overreacting to Cliff's performance. You sound like Bulls fans after one loss (time to trade this guy, that guy). It's a consensus that Cliff had an amazing year last year. He will be a solid contributer this year. I don't all of the sudden see his stuff going down the tubes. The problem Cliff has ALWAYS had is locating his fastball. What did he do last year? He located. I trust in Coop and AJ to make sure he keeps locating. It's a long season guys and this is just one game. Not everyone can be cy young material right out of the gate. Cliff will get better as the season rolls along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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