Freddy Today

[SSH2005]

just a poor outting. put it behind us. we have to remember also, for whatever reason Freddy pitches better on the road. Lets see what he does in Detroit before we start freaking out. Maybe his arm is tired from the WBC?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If Freddy was throwing in the low 90's, I doubt people would be concerned and could just accept that it was just a poor outing. But he was missing 4 MPH from his fastball and looked terribly out-of-shape on the mound. It very well could be that he just pitched too many innings combined from last season, the WBC, and Spring Training.

[WCSox]

Another guy on The Score is convinced that Freddy was on steroids in previous years. God, I'd rather listen to Singleton than these idiots.

[Rowand44]

Freddy is absolutely awful just like the rest of the team.

[SSH2005]

Freddy is absolutely awful just like the rest of the team.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is the point of these posts? Just curious.

 

If Contreras is only throwing in the high 80's tomorrow, would you be concerned about him? A horrible outing is one thing, losing 4 MPH of velocity is another. I wouldn't be concerned at all by Freddy's outing today if he was throwing 91-93 MPH.

Edited April 4, 2006 by SSH2005

[Chisoxfn]

The fact that he was hit hard and struggled isn't what bothers me, that happens.  The fact I didn't see him hit 90 once all game is what bothers me.  Hopefully this was just a bit of a dead arm period or a bad day, because Freddy without a low to occasionally mid 90's fastball isn't going to work IMO.  Hopefully his velocity is still coming back, but of course this is a concern considering all the innings he's thrown in his career, especially last year.

The fact that the media decided this wasn't an important issue all of spring also bothers me. We had fluff piece after fluff piece, yet nothing was ever mentioned about Freddy's velocity being insanely down.

 

Plus we had Hawk and DJ in the booth talking about how its no big deal. Well I got news, when you have the control Freddy has you can't get away without having good velocity.

 

He's going to have to get in shape and strengthen his legs and hopefully build back some strength so he can reach back and pop it from time to time.

 

Just a really ugly game by him today. I liked the fact he was changing speeds and his breaking stuff looked good, but without that fastball its a little easier for hitters to have success. We saw some weak hits today off him, but he got himself into jams too.

 

Logan looked solid as did Cotts. Jenks is out of shape and you can see he just doesn't have a proper range of motion when he's throwing. I'm really worried he's going to get hope. I sure hope the Sox trainers are working with him on losing some of that weight he gained this off-season, because its going to be a key to his success, imo.

[Rowand44]

What is the point of these posts?  Just curious.

 

If Contreras is only throwing in the high 80's tomorrow, would you be concerned about him?  A horrible outing is one thing, losing 4 MPH of velocity is another.  I wouldn't be concerned at all by Freddy's outing today if he was throwing 91-93 MPH.

The point is the same for when people freak out over one outing. First off at the park he did hit 91 a few times on the gun and I don't watch the gun that much so I'm not sure what he was consistantly hitting. Maybe the gun was fast at the park or maybe it was slow on the tv gun. To be honest, I'm almost 100 percent sure there was a thread exactly like this about Freddy last year where people were concerned about his velocity after one outing. Give the guy a few starts and if he's consistantly at 88 mph then everyone can start panicking, I'll bet that isn't the case though.

[fathom]

All I know is this....I don't want to see Garcia become a soft tosser like DJ was suggesting he wants to try and be.

[aboz56]

I'm not going to judge Garcia over one outing, but IMO out of the entire rotation, he is the biggest question mark.

 

A lot of innings over the years and he used to throw very hard with a lot of breaking stuff.

 

Has it taken its toll?

 

Only time will tell.

 

I am hoping he can rebound and come out strong next game because he was just awful today.

[Chisoxfn]

Small update...some of us are having a wee bit of difficulty figuring out exactly what Freddy was throwing...the CSN gun had him in the mid to high 80's, but the CSN gun seemed to disagree with what the stadium gun was saying when Logan, Cotts, and Jenks were in there.

 

Anywho, Freddy did get hammered, and Hawk & DJ did say he was throwing a bit slow.

What DJ and Hawk were saying in terms of velocity in the game was dead on with the stadium gun. They read there velocity from the stadium gun and typically thats the same gun that comcast puts up.

 

I also want to note that the velocity was on par for the other pitchers. Sometimes radars are off, but hte best way to judge that is by looking at the varying pitchers that throw and see if the readings are online.

 

This gun seemed pretty accurate. Maybe 1-2 MPH slow, but that would mean Jenks was hitting 97 and I find that hard to believe.

[Chisoxfn]

by the way you've all failed to mention that hawk and dj said he was TRYING to throw the slower stuff and work his control, location, curve etc.  that he was going at this from a new approach - an approach i think is ridiculous... but a new approach all the same.

 

i dont think anything is physically wrong with freddy.

The problem was you saw him rare back and fire his legit fastball and it was topping out at 89. If you aren't throwing hard your not going to just magically be able to throw 93 as the season progresses. I could see him still being tired and working into things and I can buy into the fact that he's working on some stuff, but this is a horrid approach he's taking.

 

I have no problem with him throwing more breaking pitches and varying speeds, but he's still got to be agressive with his fast ball and use it, otherwise that hard heater won't be there anymore.

[aboz56]

Another guy on The Score is convinced that Freddy was on steroids in previous years.  God, I'd rather listen to Singleton than these idiots.

Steroids would not benefit a starting pitcher very much.

 

First off, it would be horrible for flexibility.

 

Second off, Freddy was never noticably big so for someone to say that is just plain irresponsible.

 

The only pitcher on the Sox I ever looked at and thought he was on the juice was Koch and look where he is now.

[Chisoxfn]

I just ran into a guy who was at the game and said that Freddy looked exhausted more than anything, seemed to be laboring through pitches.

He usually is sweaty and laboring becaus he throws so many pitches. So I don't consider that unusual.

[fathom]

Garcia definitely looks like he didn't miss many meals this offseason.

[SSH2005]

Garcia definitely looks like he didn't miss many meals this offseason.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Everyone on the radio was saying that he may have put on a few pounds over the offseason. But I don't really see that accounting for a loss in velocity.

[Rowand44]

Ok, I could not have been the only one at the game that saw him hit 91 a few times. Like I said though, I do not look at the gun that much so it might have only been a couple of times but I swear I saw him hit 91 a few times.

[Chisoxfn]

People who were at the game are calling up The Score and talking about how horrible and out-of-shape he looked on the mound.  They are saying he lost 4 MPH off his fastball.  If it's because he is trying to locate more by throwing with less velocity, he better go back to his old way of pitching.  Mid to high 80 MPH fastballs get roped unless you have Maddux-like control.

Not true. Freddy can survive with an 88-89 MPH FB as long as he varies speeds. He gets great movement on his Slider and curveball and varies the speeds on them anywhere from 81-66. That alone is good enough to work and work well.

 

The problem is he doesn't have the type of command to get away with that because hitters won't be as far out in front on these pitches when they aren't worried about his fastball.

 

He definately doesn't need a good FB, but if he doesn't have it he's going to have to become more of an agressive pitcher who doesn't fall behind in the count.

 

I do think its quite possible this is just an issue of a dead arm/him not quite being prepared and ready for the start of the season. Freddy didn't consistently throw hard last year, but whenever he needed to he could rare back and throw 93-94 while throwin consistently in the 88-92 MPH range.

 

I expect him to get back to that point, but if he isn't by May 1st, I think we'll have something to worry about.

[fathom]

Garcia just wasn't putting much effort into his pitches. He was trying to aim his fastball to hit his spots, and his slider was just rolling up to the mound. Maybe he thought this was still Spring Training? Cotts looked pretty solid today, but I'm definitely concerned about Garcia and Jenks. At least we have Thome!

[Jordan4life_2007]

LOL. I knew this thread was gonna pop up. Trade Freddy? On April 4th? Maybe the A's are gonna trade Zito? He sucked pretty hard. Maybe the Cubs will trade Zambrano? He was pretty bad as well. I didn't see the game today. So I can't really comment too much. As far as his velocity goes, I don't think it has anything to do with the innings he pitched last year. A 28 year-old doesn't lose 4-5 mph off his fastball in 1 offseason, even with the heavy workload. Balta made a good point about the WBC possibly throwing him out of wack. If Freddy's velocity is still down 2-3 weeks from now, then you could possible be a little concerned. But calm down, people.

[Chisoxfn]

All I know is this....I don't want to see Garcia become a soft tosser like DJ was suggesting he wants to try and be.

That alone makes this a topic. It would be assinine for him to change the way he throws. I think Dick Allen said it best when he mentioned that if he's making this change he isn't doing it on purpose, it means he can't throw that pitch anymore.

 

However, if DJ and Hawk are just talking more about him working on using his breaking stuff a lot more, than it could very well be Garcia not quite ready and in shape for the season and because of that his velocity is down a bit.

 

That would not shock me. But if in fact Garcia is planning on doing this all season, well he better learn to throw a lot more strikes and be a lot more agressive or he might as well get ready to be replaced by Bmac.

[Chisoxfn]

Steroids would not benefit a starting pitcher very much.

 

First off, it would be horrible for flexibility.

 

Second off, Freddy was never noticably big so for someone to say that is just plain irresponsible.

 

The only pitcher on the Sox I ever looked at and thought he was on the juice was Koch and look where he is now.

They are a great benefit to relievers, but starting pitchers typically would gain little benefit.

 

They help relievers gain velocity and help them rebound faster. In fact I'd venture a guess that the highest % of users in this league are a combo of relievers and hitters (more relievers than people think were using this stuff).

[SSH2005]

LOL.  I knew this thread was gonna pop up.  Trade Freddy?  On April 4th?  Maybe the A's are gonna trade Zito?  He sucked pretty hard.  Maybe the Cubs will trade Zambrano?  He was pretty bad as well.  I didn't see the game today.  So I can't really comment too much.  As far as his velocity goes,  I don't think it has anything to do with the innings he pitched last year.  A 28 year-old doesn't lose 4-5 mph off his fastball in 1 offseason,  even with the heavy workload.  Balta made a good point about the WBC possibly throwing him out of wack.  If Freddy's velocity is still down 2-3 weeks from now,  then you could possible be a little concerned.  But calm down,  people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Freddy will actually be 30 in three months, not that I think his age has anything to do with his velocity being down today.

 

And I hope no one was saying we should trade Freddy now. I would definately consider trading Freddy after the season is over though.

[fathom]

Garcia's velocity has been gradually decreasing over the past 3-4 years. People act like he was throwing 94 mph constantly last year. That's not true at all. He was in the 91 mph range on average last season with his fastball.

[Chisoxfn]

Freddy will actually be 30 in three months, not that I think his age has anything to do with his velocity being down today.

 

And I hope no one was saying we should trade Freddy now.  I would definately consider trading Freddy after the season is over though.

Its all about conditioning. You could very easily be down 4 MPH because he hasn't done enough cardio and leg strength training. Thats where most of the velocity comes from and he may still be in the process of getting his legs underneath him and good to go.

 

Usually pitchers need to put a lot of work out in the off-season to get there legs strong. And those pitchers who do that and have strong legs tend to be the kind of guys that have the velocity carry late into innings and that tend to not wear out as the season progresses.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Freddy will actually be 30 in three months, not that I think his age has anything to do with his velocity being down today.

 

And I hope no one was saying we should trade Freddy now.  I would definately consider trading Freddy after the season is over though.

 

29 then. You still don't lose that kind of velocity over 1 offseason.

[Chisoxfn]

Garcia's velocity has been gradually decreasing over the past 3-4 years.  People act like he was throwing 94 mph constantly last year.  That's not true at all.  He was in the 91 mph range on average last season with his fastball.

His FB was just fine last year. He would throw 91 and bring it in at 93-94 when he needed it. I figure in a couple weeks he'll be back to that point for the Sox.

 

After the 1st inning he was in the 88-89 range althoug he wasn't throwing it enough, so its just a matter of getting another 1-2 on that and than being able to rare back and jack it a little more.

 

Give him 2-4 more starts and I think he'll be in-season shape.