NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,190458,00.html As I understand it from watching the news all day, the laws in France say that you can't be fired from your job, even for cause. This new law supposedly would enable employers to fire people under 26 after a year or 2 for whatever reason. Can you imagine such a thing? You get a job in France and its yours as long as you want it. Even if you get caught stealing or business goes bad the employer can't let you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Well, I will say this...if I was able to start off as a grad student and not have to worry about finding another position the rest of my life...I'd probably riot to protect that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 4, 2006 -> 05:15 PM) Well, I will say this...if I was able to start off as a grad student and not have to worry about finding another position the rest of my life...I'd probably riot to protect that too. Hey, tenure isn't much of a worse deal. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 4, 2006 -> 03:15 PM) Well, I will say this...if I was able to start off as a grad student and not have to worry about finding another position the rest of my life...I'd probably riot to protect that too. They talked at length about their labor laws on CNBC and Fox today and they brought up some interesting points. Basically France is struggling to hold up the weight of all it's socialist benefits it gives everyone and employers wont hire anyone because they know they'll be stuck with them for life. The French government recognizes this and thats why the laws but since they are totally dead in the water the mobs in the street rule the day and you get what you have here and what happened back in October. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Apr 4, 2006 -> 02:32 PM) They talked at length about their labor laws on CNBC and Fox today and they brought up some interesting points. Basically France is struggling to hold up the weight of all it's socialist benefits it gives everyone and employers wont hire anyone because they know they'll be stuck with them for life. The French government recognizes this and thats why the laws but since they are totally dead in the water the mobs in the street rule the day and you get what you have here and what happened back in October. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch if you ask me. Well, I do understand the principle of why the government would want this law...but it's also worth noting that the argument that employers won't hire anyone because they can't fire anyone is at least controversial economically. Here, for example, is a study which suggests that high levels of "employment protection" may have only a limited impact on the economy...by ensuring that skilled workers are able to have or keep jobs, these sorts of laws can wind up distributing wealth more widely and avoiding large losses of employment. Several countries have tried moving from systems more like France to those more like the U.S., and have done so without seeing large gains in employment. The data are still in debate, as an IMF study a few years ago found the opposite. France has a few other major problems too, including things like unemployment benefits which last for something like 3 years, which is an even more obvious impediment to job creation, as people can sit around & collect $ from the government without having a need to find a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 man if the French fought the Germans as hard as they fought each other... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 It wouldn't have mattered with Collabo at the helm like Petain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ Apr 4, 2006 -> 05:15 PM) It wouldn't have mattered with Collabo at the helm like Petain. Petain didn't take over until the French & British armies were completely whipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 He was also one of the main war "advisers" during the German invasion of 1940. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 4, 2006 -> 03:55 PM) Well, I do understand the principle of why the government would want this law...but it's also worth noting that the argument that employers won't hire anyone because they can't fire anyone is at least controversial economically. Here, for example, is a study which suggests that high levels of "employment protection" may have only a limited impact on the economy...by ensuring that skilled workers are able to have or keep jobs, these sorts of laws can wind up distributing wealth more widely and avoiding large losses of employment. Several countries have tried moving from systems more like France to those more like the U.S., and have done so without seeing large gains in employment. The data are still in debate, as an IMF study a few years ago found the opposite. France has a few other major problems too, including things like unemployment benefits which last for something like 3 years, which is an even more obvious impediment to job creation, as people can sit around & collect $ from the government without having a need to find a job. Most of the data you show here is for retention. The unemployment rate for young people in France is something like 25%, according to newscasts I have seen, so this isn't about retention - its about increasing jobs. Employers will take chances if they need staff, and lowering the risk bar will assist in more people being hired. Seems pretty logical to me. These kids are rioting against their own best interests, AND employers' best interests AND government's best interests. Its bizarre. Its illogical. Its French. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted April 6, 2006 Author Share Posted April 6, 2006 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 5, 2006 -> 09:03 AM) Most of the data you show here is for retention. The unemployment rate for young people in France is something like 25%, according to newscasts I have seen, so this isn't about retention - its about increasing jobs. Employers will take chances if they need staff, and lowering the risk bar will assist in more people being hired. Seems pretty logical to me. These kids are rioting against their own best interests, AND employers' best interests AND government's best interests. Its bizarre. Its illogical. Its French. They will lose this battle. The law will pass with some modification because it has to. The French cannot sustain their Socialist state much longer as their unemployment remains very high and their economy falls further and further behind their counterparts on the continent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 QUOTE(Soxy @ Apr 4, 2006 -> 02:30 PM) Hey, tenure isn't much of a worse deal. . . The difference, of course, being that one has to work his/her ass off to obtain tenure. Most of these people don't have to do s***. QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Apr 5, 2006 -> 07:59 PM) They will lose this battle. The law will pass with some modification because it has to. The French cannot sustain their Socialist state much longer as their unemployment remains very high and their economy falls further and further behind their counterparts on the continent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Apr 6, 2006 -> 06:15 PM) The difference, of course, being that one has to work his/her ass off to obtain tenure. Most of these people don't have to do s***. Hey, I'll work 6 years for endless job security. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 QUOTE(Soxy @ Apr 6, 2006 -> 06:23 PM) Hey, I'll work 6 years for endless job security. . . Trust me, it's more than 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Depends on the university. My dad got his in less than 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 6, 2006 -> 09:39 PM) Trust me, it's more than 6 years. Are you including grad school? I think it's partially the school and how much you publish and how widely your stuff is cited and used in the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Really hasn't been a good time for a youth in the past few months in France has it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 What do you mean? Bonfires for the kids everywhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 They expect the rioting to quell itself this weekend as spring break hits and the rioters will be going on vacation. I don't believe any editorial comment is needed here. This speaks for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(YASNY @ Apr 8, 2006 -> 04:26 AM) They expect the rioting to quell itself this weekend as spring break hits and the rioters will be going on vacation. I don't believe any editorial comment is needed here. This speaks for itself. Agreed. What these kids need is a long, well-deserved holiday. Edited April 8, 2006 by FlaSoxxJim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted April 8, 2006 Author Share Posted April 8, 2006 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Apr 7, 2006 -> 07:36 AM) Really hasn't been a good time for a youth in the past few months in France has it. Fact of the matter is, French youth are a bunch of spoiled brats. Every last one of em. The French economy simply can't afford to hand out all these goodies and perks to them anymore. The youth over there are starting to realize that they are going to have to start paying their own freight and they don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samclemens Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 hello, france?? socialism DOESNT WORK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Actually, it's worked quite well in Scandinavia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Apr 8, 2006 -> 05:11 PM) Fact of the matter is, French youth are a bunch of spoiled brats. Every last one of em. The French economy simply can't afford to hand out all these goodies and perks to them anymore. The youth over there are starting to realize that they are going to have to start paying their own freight and they don't like it. I want to ask a legitimate question here: have you ever been in France for more than an hour at a time? If not, I find it kind of odd how you paint broad strokes without knowing a damn thing about their entire population other than, "LOL FRANCE IS GONNA HAVE TO SURRENDER THEIR WORKER'S RIGHTS, AM I RITE?!?!?!" I sincerely doubt you've spent enough time in any part of France, let alone read enough, to get an ample gauge of any part of their society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted April 10, 2006 Author Share Posted April 10, 2006 QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Apr 9, 2006 -> 11:35 AM) I want to ask a legitimate question here: have you ever been in France for more than an hour at a time? If not, I find it kind of odd how you paint broad strokes without knowing a damn thing about their entire population other than, "LOL FRANCE IS GONNA HAVE TO SURRENDER THEIR WORKER'S RIGHTS, AM I RITE?!?!?!" I sincerely doubt you've spent enough time in any part of France, let alone read enough, to get an ample gauge of any part of their society. I have never set foot on French soil and I really have no desire to go there either. I dont see how that precludes me from commenting on their failing economic system and the French people's selfish resistance to change. Id rather sit back and watch the spoiled brats and islamic immigrants tear the place apart. Maybe then a politician who recognizes the problem and has the guts to effect change will take over and they will take genuine steps forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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