Duke Lacrosse Rape Allegation

[bmags]

i don't know man, these are the types of cases that DA's make their political careers on. The publicity they'll get from this case, they want to be on TV as long as possible. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence being reported, it just seems like people like the story of these rich priviledged white college kids taking advantage of a poor black girl as some sort of microcosm of american society to the point of being blind to anything that would disprove it.

 

was this post money or what, everyone?

 

Come, everyone, praise me!

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

was this post money or what, everyone?

 

Come, everyone, praise me!

 

 

[samclemens]

this story is bulls***, and it has already ruined the coach who resigned career. of course the media jumped all over this before they knew anything except what a drunk stripper who had no evidence alleged, because it would have been so sensational. i wouldnt be suprised if there are perhaps some defamation or at least invasion of privacy suits on behalf of some of the players (for placing them in a false light). this reminds me of how richard jewel got lambasted during the '96 olympics and tom brokaw said he was guilty on national news. not suprisingly, jewel is still suing several defendants for defamation, and has already collected millions in settlements from other defendants who were smart enough to settle.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

this story is bulls***, and it has already ruined the coach who resigned career. of course the media jumped all over this before they knew anything except what a drunk stripper who had no evidence alleged, because it would have been so sensational. i wouldnt be suprised if there are perhaps some defamation or at least invasion of privacy suits on behalf of some of the players (for placing them in a false light). this reminds me of how richard jewel got lambasted during the '96 olympics and tom brokaw said he was guilty on national news. not suprisingly, jewel is still suing several defendants for defamation, and has already collected millions in settlements from other defendants who were smart enough to settle.

 

 

Now that would be some justice there. Here's hoping the LaCrosse team puts the squeeze on this politician CALLING himself a District Attorney.

[Soxfest]

If and say "If" she gets caught lying I hope she gets charges pressed against her, same for guys who may have done a crime.

[southsider2k5]

2 sealed indictments have been issued so far, based mostly on IDs by the alleged victim.

[NorthSideSox72]

Something to note here...

 

2 players were arrested this morning. And the report from the Doc that checked the alleged victim said that, although no DNA was found, there was evidence of rape. Just not evidence that can be attached to any one person.

[Kyyle23]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/18/duke.rape/index.html

[LosMediasBlancas]

I know this wasn't that long ago, but It's funny how quickly I get used to things. Prior to DNA evidence being used in court, what evidence was used to prosecute rapists? Bruising? Medical evidence of penetration? How was it linked to the specific individuals that were convicted?

[Balta1701]

I know this wasn't that long ago, but It's funny how quickly I get used to things.  Prior to DNA evidence being used in court, what evidence was used to prosecute rapists?  Bruising? Medical evidence of penetration?  How was it linked to the specific individuals that were convicted?

I think it was nearly impossible to prove in those cases without witnesses. Which is probably part of the reason why charges are still brought in only a very small portion of rape cases, and why there was such a stigma attached to bringing those charges for a long time. It turns into a he said/she said case, and you just can't convict on that alone, so things get to the point that there really is no recourse for most accusers.

[Steff]

I know this wasn't that long ago, but It's funny how quickly I get used to things.  Prior to DNA evidence being used in court, what evidence was used to prosecute rapists?  Bruising? Medical evidence of penetration?  How was it linked to the specific individuals that were convicted?

 

 

 

You can hardly find info about prosecuting before DNA, but like Balta said I would guess it was based mainly on a witness and credibility of the accuser.

[Balta1701]

Now that would be some justice there.  Here's hoping the LaCrosse team puts the squeeze on this politician CALLING himself a District Attorney.

I'm going to disagree with you 2 completely here, but I'm going to put a "This disagreement is a temporary one pending further information."

 

I'm personally in no position whatsoever to know what sort of evidence the D.A. presented to the grand jury to get it to issue 2 indictments. I'd say it's safe to say that you 2 aren't either. Without knowing that, I think it's lunacy to sit here and say "Oh the D.A. is just doing this for his career" or "He's just playing to the blacks" or whatever it is you think.

 

You may very well be right, and once this goes to trial, we'll see that his evidence consists of her testimony and nothing else, and he is just playing to the crowd. But you don't know that, and I don't know that. This may go to trial and 40 Duke Lacross players may come forward to testify against those 2, or something wierd like that.

 

We do know that the D.A. thinks there is a third alleged rapist, and he didn't feel he had enough evidence yet to bring charges against that one, so the investigation part is still ongoing, and there is believed to be more DNA evidence of some sort which has not yet come back that we don't know the results of. So the D.A. does still have some bits in his pocket we don't know about, if nothing else.

 

If the D.A. doesn't have a rock solid case, and he brings this to trial anyway, he should lose his job in the next election. But it's way too early to say that he doesn't have a rock solid case.

[LosMediasBlancas]

You can hardly find info about prosecuting before DNA, but like Balta said I would guess it was based mainly on a witness and credibility of the accuser.

 

 

But a LOT of men were put away for rape prior to DNA testing, on what evidence?

[Steff]

But a LOT of men were put away for rape prior to DNA testing, on what evidence?

 

 

Like I said above.. there doesn't seem to be sources for that information. It seems you would need to have a specific case to look up where a conviction prior to DNA introduction took place. Google and Yahoo did not provide anything.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Like I said above.. there doesn't seem to be sources for that information. It seems you would need to have a specific case to look up where a conviction prior to DNA introduction took place. Google and Yahoo did not provide anything.

 

Interesting.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Ok. I read where they arrested 2 of the players for their alleged involvement in this incident. Here's my question though. Why would they attempt to charge these kids with something when there is a reasonable doubt already built in ( the DNA ). Unless there's some new and highly compelling evidence linking these 2 to what happened the DA is simply grandstanding, wasting the taxpayers money, and ruining the lives of 2 innocent boys in so doing.

[Balta1701]

Ok.  I read where they arrested 2 of the players for their alleged involvement in this incident.  Here's my question though.  Why would they attempt to charge these kids with something when there is a reasonable doubt already built in ( the DNA ).  Unless there's some new and highly compelling evidence linking these 2 to what happened the DA is simply grandstanding, wasting the taxpayers money, and ruining the lives of 2 innocent boys in so doing.

Now that is the correct question, and there are 2 possible answers to it. 1. The D.A. is an idiot. 2. There is more evidence we don't know about. Until proven otherwise, the safest bet is that its the latter; if it was only a he said/she said case and there was nothing else, I don't think this case would have been filed.

[Rex Kickass]

The thing about Grand Juries is that we won't really know until the trial happens.

 

I was listening to the Fan in NYC last week and they were talking about this case and whether or not the punishment of losing the season and coach was appropriate. And they had on some columnist or something from that area who said that there had been a long stream of complaints and allegations regarding the LaCrosse team and that there was a "culture of entitlement" there that the administration had seen the coach perpetuating.

 

At least that's what I thought I heard, I was half asleep.

[kapkomet]

These kids are charged with kidnapping as well? WTF? Where did I miss that?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

These kids are charged with kidnapping as well?  WTF?  Where did I miss that?

 

 

Kidnapping?!

 

 

Didn't that stripper go to that house of her own free will?

 

 

Yeah. Thought so.

 

 

What a joke.

 

 

These kids are gonna have a mondo, slam dunk lawsuit against the DA's office when this is all over and they're gonna get paid big time.

Edited April 18, 2006 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[Texsox]

Anytime you hold someone against their will it would be kidnapping. If you walked into a store and the owner locked you into a changing room and didn't let you out, they could and probably would be charged with kidnapping. At least that's the explaination I heard earlier on Fox.

[Balta1701]

One of these 2 is also facing charges in D.C. for assault. If he completes 25 hours of community service those charges may be dropped.

[southsideirish71]

But a LOT of men were put away for rape prior to DNA testing, on what evidence?

 

Evidence collection is very difficult with a rape case. The first thing they teach you in the police adademy is to isolate and contain the crime scene. However with a persons body that is almost impossible. The first thing that a lot of rape victims do is to shower. Which is the worst thing from an evidencial standpoint.

 

DNA evidence has been around for a while. But even back in the late 70s investigators were collecting rape kits known as Vitulo Kits. Its basically collects pubic combings, dried blood, scrapings from underneath the fingernails of the victim. The pubic hairs were used to match the accused. Its not as foolproof as DNA but its pretty selective. Blood was typed and matched.

 

Other things you need to look at also, does the accused have any wounds that could of been inflicted by the victim. Do they have any scratches or defense wounds. Plus description of the attacker, clothing they were wearing, any details. Most rapes happen amongst people they know, its not the stranger rape that everyone sees on TV. These are all things that help with the evidence gathering.

 

Now in this case a few things are fishy. They have obtained some genetic material obviously or they wouldnt have performed a DNA exam on the players. When a rape victim is interviewed one of the questions have you had intercourse in the last 72 hours. The reason for this is to collect genetic samples and pubic pullings from all those who could match for DNA. You eliminate DNA samples that do not apply. However this is not the case here. They have drawn material and it hasnt matched. This is a huge item that the defense will use to get these guys off. Beyond a resonable doubt is the criteria.

 

The DA is pushing this only because of the political issues at hand. If this was cook county and the DNA testing came back negative for genetic material found in the rape kit then you drop the case. Its not like they didnt get the right genetic drops from these guys, she positively identified them. So if the genetic material doesnt match them, then where did it come from.

[Texsox]

Does the DA have a moral or ethical responsibility to do what the public wants even if he knows it is wrong? I don't think so, but I'm wondering how we view elected officials and following what the people who elected them want.

[Balta1701]

The DA is pushing this only because of the political issues at hand.  If this was cook county and the DNA testing came back negative for genetic material found in the rape kit then you drop the case.  Its not like they didnt get the right genetic drops from these guys, she positively identified them.  So if the genetic material doesnt match them, then where did it come from.

Once again, supposedly all of the DNA results are not yet back, despite the statements of the defense attorneys.