Duke Lacrosse Rape Allegation

[LosMediasBlancas]

Update, supposedly they didn't find any of the suspect's DNA on her or the scene, nor did they find any evidence that she had sex recently.

[T R U]

Im having a terrible time trying to phrase what i am trying to say, I dont really know how to come across without sounding like an idiot(  ). 

I guess I am desensitized is what it comes down to.  I watch a youtube video called "Im Juggernaut, b****" and I laugh my ass off.  I can honestly see this lacrosse player having a vile lingo that him and his buddies converse with and this statement, while crass-insensitive-homicidal-crazy it might sound, means nothing.  If it actually applied to his knowledge of a rape, then to me he is a sick son of a b****.  If he knew nothing about the rape and was just writing some off-the-wall-crazy-ass text message to his buddies, i really dont consider him a sick son of a b****.  It seems I am in the minority, so I wont try to aggravate the issue.

 

Well I agree with you and dont think hes sick either.. I found it pretty funny, it just depends on your sense of humor.

[mr_genius]

the email was a joke, no big deal.

 

the kid was probably like "oh f***, i sent that email out" after he heard about the accusations.

 

btw, i think it's becoming obvoius that the accuser in this case was lying.

[bmags]

IMO, false accusation of rape is probably the worst accusation around *child molesting probably overtakes it*, but these are allegations that even when proven false stick with people. I feel bad for that lacrosse team, their coach f***in lost his job because some girl lied about something with grave consequences. What a lowlife.

[KWs OK for Me]

IMO, false accusation of rape is probably the worst accusation around *child molesting probably overtakes it*, but these are allegations that even when proven false stick with people. I feel bad for that lacrosse team, their coach f***in lost his job because some girl lied about something with grave consequences. What a lowlife.

I completely agree, and it is incredibly common on college campuses. Because of this I have taken to following the good old standard of American juris prudence, "Innocent until proven guilty." I have known a few people whose lives have been [ruined is too harsh a word] thrown upside down because some dumb drunk sorority girl got drunk, woke up somewhere that she's not familiar with and cries rape or date-rape. Just the mere accusation permanently taints peoples view of them without any good reason. Back to the Duke case, do you think that the city will bring charges against the girl for filing a false police report? I think they have the obligation to prosecute her to the fullest extent of the law after what she has put the guys, the lacrosse team, the school, and the entire city through.

[Texsox]

I have known a few people whose lives have been [ruined is too harsh a word] thrown upside down because some dumb drunk sorority girl got drunk, woke up somewhere that she's not familiar with and cries rape or date-rape. 

 

Two different issues here, the "she was drunk, but said yes", is not an excuse to rape someone. :headshake

[KWs OK for Me]

Two different issues here, the "she was drunk, but said yes", is not an excuse to rape someone.  :headshake

It's not even that. Someone wakes up in the morning next to someone (didn't necessarily have sex) and claims rape and date rape because "she's a girl who'd never do that."

[LosMediasBlancas]

IMO, false accusation of rape is probably the worst accusation around *child molesting probably overtakes it*, but these are allegations that even when proven false stick with people. I feel bad for that lacrosse team, their coach f***in lost his job because some girl lied about something with grave consequences. What a lowlife.

 

Good points. I know someone who is a teacher and one of his former students accused him of some sort of misconduct, although I don't remember the actual charges that he was facing. This is a guy with a wife, kids and big extended family who spent a TON of money on legal fees, had to relocate, find new work and was found not guilty. Sure he's free, but a ton of damage was done. It's just too easy to make these kinds allegations, even if it never makes it to court, the seed of doubt on someone's character has been planted.

On the other hand, what's the solution? Penalties, even jail time for making false accusations? It's difficult enough for women who have been raped to come forward, we don't need anything else making them afraid to do so. It's an unfortunate situation all the way around.

By the way, the prosecutuion in this case contends that they will press forward with the case.

[Steff]

Good points.  I know someone who is a teacher and one of his former students accused him of some sort of misconduct, although I don't remember the actual charges that he was facing.  This is a guy with a wife, kids and big extended family who spent a TON of money on legal fees, had to relocate, find new work and was found not guilty.  Sure he's free, but a ton of damage was done.  It's just too easy to make these kinds allegations, even if it never makes it to court, the seed of doubt on someone's character has been planted.

On the other hand, what's the solution?  Penalties, even jail time for making false accusations?  It's difficult enough for women who have been raped to come forward, we don't need anything else making them afraid to do so.  It's an unfortunate situation all the way around.

 

 

 

Which is a good argument for accusations not being made public until the accused is convicted of a crime.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Which is a good argument for accusations not being made public until the accused is convicted of a crime.

 

 

How do you keep it from the people that mean the most to you, your family and friends? This is where most of the damage is done. We know that guilty people are found not guilty in a court of law every day. People might not say it out loud, but surely some have to be wondering if those people are guilty.

[Texsox]

Which is a good argument for accusations not being made public until the accused is convicted of a crime.

 

I've never heard of that possibility. but it does make sense to at least consider. I am certain there will be people on the other side suggesting it isn't good policy to allow an accused rapist to teach school, etc.

 

There is no perfect balance between accused and accuser rights. The pendulum was to far to one side when the accuser was attacked and run through the mud, now the accused is, and that is probably equally wrong.

[Steff]

How do you keep it from the people that mean the most to you, your family and friends?  This is where most of the damage is done.  We know that guilty people are found not guilty in a court of law every day.    People might not say it out loud, but surely some have to be wondering if those people are guilty.

 

 

I don't even want to try to imagine..

[Gregory Pratt]

Good points.  I know someone who is a teacher and one of his former students accused him of some sort of misconduct, although I don't remember the actual charges that he was facing.  This is a guy with a wife, kids and big extended family who spent a TON of money on legal fees, had to relocate, find new work and was found not guilty.  Sure he's free, but a ton of damage was done.  It's just too easy to make these kinds allegations, even if it never makes it to court, the seed of doubt on someone's character has been planted.

On the other hand, what's the solution?  Penalties, even jail time for making false accusations?  It's difficult enough for women who have been raped to come forward, we don't need anything else making them afraid to do so.  It's an unfortunate situation all the way around.

By the way, the prosecutuion in this case contends that they will press forward with the case.

 

I knew a teacher -- he was my seventh grade Math teacher -- who was accused of sexual harassment and attempted rape and molestations and things of the sort by a girl. He'd sent her a text message requesting a blowjob, she reported it, and then he went to trial and was found innocent. His argument was that his daughter has a lot of friends and one of them must have taken his cell phone and done it because he'd never do that. He was found not guilty.

 

::shrug:: I know for a fact he was guilty. The guy was a pedophile through and through. He used to fool around with the girls on the soccer team he coached and did a bunch of things that these girls told me about. Most of it was consensual, though, and most of the girls really liked him (he's fairly young, although not in his twenties) and so they never saw a reason to report his behavior. Which is fair enough. I wouldn't report a girl for consensual sex even if she was over the age limit.

 

The girl who did report him was one who really took offense. And I know another girl who he was all-but-stalking was going to report him but didn't want to get into a big messy legal battle and be put on trial with him.

 

What I'm getting at is, being acquitted isn't proof of not being guilty. Oliver North was convicted of crimes and then overturned by a panel of Activist Judges (I think they were activist judges, anyway, in that case) and OJ Simpson was found innocent. I'm sure some make the case that they're innocent, but it's commonly accepted that these men committed serious crimes.

 

Charles Manson was a hell of a man to convict because it was so hard to legally pin something on someone. American Justice is a b**** sometimes because we protect the accused as much as the accuser -- and probably more so. I wouldn't change that because it's necessary adn works well. I'm just pointing out the potential pitfalls of prosecuting.

 

------------------------------------

 

I don't think we should classify charges unless someone's convicted. I think the public has a right to know that their neighbor was accused of rape or murder or stealing lollipops. If they are acquitted, then their neighbors have a right to decide for themselves if they believe the jury was right and trust the man's character. If they don't believe them, then that's their right. I think people have a right to know what you've been charged with in the past.

[Kyyle23]

::shrug:: I know for a fact he was guilty. The guy was a pedophile through and through. He used to fool around with the girls on the soccer team he coached and did a bunch of things that these girls told me about. Most of it was consensual, though, and most of the girls really liked him (he's fairly young, although not in his twenties) and so they never saw a reason to report his behavior. Which is fair enough. I wouldn't report a girl for consensual sex even if she was over the age limit.

 

You wouldnt report a person having sex with a minor because it was consensual? It isnt consensual unless the kid is over 18, until then it is statuatory rape and sexual assault of a minor. I am having a really hard time believing that you turned a blind eye to this guy because you felt that it was consensual.

[Texsox]

I don't think we should classify charges unless someone's convicted. I think the public has a right to know that their neighbor was accused of rape or murder or stealing lollipops. If they are acquitted, then their neighbors have a right to decide for themselves if they believe the jury was right and trust the man's character. If they don't believe them, then that's their right. I think people have a right to know what you've been charged with in the past.

 

The problem is we always remember the accusation, but rarely the outcome. Our system is based on innocent until proven guilty. Shouldn't the innocent have some protection?

[Steff]

::shrug:: I know for a fact he was guilty. The guy was a pedophile through and through. He used to fool around with the girls on the soccer team he coached and did a bunch of things that these girls told me about. Most of it was consensual, though, and most of the girls really liked him (he's fairly young, although not in his twenties) and so they never saw a reason to report his behavior. Which is fair enough. I wouldn't report a girl for consensual sex even if she was over the age limit.

 

 

 

File this away for when your daughter comes home to tell you she's boppin her Calc teacher.. consentually of course.

[Gregory Pratt]

You wouldnt report a person having sex with a minor because it was consensual?  It isnt  consensual unless the kid is over 18, until then it is statuatory rape and sexual assault of a minor.  I am having a really hard time believing that you turned a blind eye to this guy because you felt that it was consensual.

 

Actually, I think I did a poor job explaining my role in this.

 

I was editing the school paper at the time, oddly enough, and wanted to publish the allegations. The teacher in charge told me I couldn't but recommended that I report him if I felt so confident about the story. I asked her if she thought I should tell the Principal with or without the girl's agreement. She said I should. I told the Principal about what was going on -- without naming names -- and he told me his hands were tied unless the girl herself came forward.

 

XYZ., the girl he was basically stalking, refused. Then ZYX, the girl who wound up years later making charges after getting the Blowjob Text Message, refused, as well. I recently called her to tell her I was glad that she reported him but sorry she didn't win her case.

 

I'd report it, sure, to answer your question. I'm not sure, in retrospect, if I should've gone to the cops, but I was quite young at the time and didnt' consider it, I don't think, because of a lack of cooperation from anyone.

[RockRaines]

Alot of stories and examples of guilty people getting off as innocent in this page of the thread, but not many stories of women faking rape to gain access to easy money like this case was.

[Gregory Pratt]

File this away for when your daughter comes home to tell you she's boppin her Calc teacher.. consentually of course. 

 

Let me rephrase a bit. I was saying that I wouldn't report an overage girl for trying to have sex with me because I wouldn't be bothered. I was making the point that these girls wouldn't report him because they liked him. As I explained here,

 

Actually, I think I did a poor job explaining my role in this.

 

I was editing the school paper at the time, oddly enough, and wanted to publish the allegations. The teacher in charge told me I couldn't but recommended that I report him if I felt so confident about the story. I asked her if she thought I should tell the Principal with or without the girl's agreement. She said I should. I told the Principal about what was going on -- without naming names -- and he told me his hands were tied unless the girl herself came forward.

 

XYZ., the girl he was basically stalking, refused. Then ZYX, the girl who wound up years later making charges after getting the Blowjob Text Message, refused, as well. I recently called her to tell her I was glad that she reported him but sorry she didn't win her case.

 

I'd report it, sure, to answer your question. I'm not sure, in retrospect, if I should've gone to the cops, but I was quite young at the time and didnt' consider it, I don't think, because of a lack of cooperation from anyone.

 

The girls who weren't consensual and were bothered refused to go along with any reporting. The girls who were consensual didn't want to, either, because they liked him.

 

My hands were very much tied, is what I'm saying.

 

The problem is we always remember the accusation, but rarely the outcome. Our system is based on innocent until proven guilty. Shouldn't the innocent have some protection?

 

Nobody has a right to never be accused of anything -- or to be accused of something and have everyone be unaware of it. It's not a right enumerated anywhere in the Constitution and I personally don't think it should be granted. If someone ever accuses me of something I didn't do, I'd stand by that, too.

 

As to your question, the innocent do have protections. Plenty of them. So do the guilty who are presumed innocence. The presumption of innocence, along with the "burden of proof on the prosecutors/plaintiffs," is protection and damned good protection.

Edited April 11, 2006 by Gregory Pratt

[Controlled Chaos]

Alot of stories and examples of guilty people getting off as innocent in this page of the thread, but not many stories of women faking rape to gain access to easy money like this case was.

 

 

My first look at how evil a woman can be was when I was 17 years old. I worked with a girl who had told me her boyfriend dumped her. I think he cheated on her or something... I guess they fought over it for like a week or so. Anyway, she told him she was pregnant and needed money for an abortion. I guess he said no at first, but she said she would go to the cops and say she was raped. She told me he was either gonna pay with his wallet or his ass. So he gave her the 300.00 she asked for. She brought it in to work one day and was like I got paid!!

 

She did that just to take money from him cause he broke up with her. I was like that is just plain f***in wrong. I guess I was a bit naive at that time or too trusting in people, but a girl doing that kind of thing never even crossed my mind. I never imagined a girl could just make something like that up.

 

For the record, I haven't come across very many 'evil' women out there capable of something like that. But they are around.

[southsider2k5]

Alot of stories and examples of guilty people getting off as innocent in this page of the thread, but not many stories of women faking rape to gain access to easy money like this case was.

 

Framing a bunch of college kids for money? THATs what you think this is about???? Wow. I thought I had heard it all.

[RockRaines]

Framing a bunch of college kids for money?  THATs what you think this is about????  Wow.  I thought I had heard it all.

Well, considering the fact that there is no evidence of any of these kids raping her. Thats my conslusion. These kids go to Duke, they arent from poor families.

[Steff]

My first look at how evil a woman can be was when I was 17 years old.  I worked with a girl who had told me her boyfriend dumped her.  I think he cheated on her or something... I guess they fought over it for like a week or so.  Anyway, she told him she was pregnant and needed money for an abortion.  I guess he said no at first, but she said she would go to the cops and say she was raped.  She told me he was either gonna pay with his wallet or his ass.  So he gave her the 300.00 she asked for.  She brought it in to work one day and was like I got paid!! 

 

She did that just to take money from him cause he broke up with her.  I was like that is just plain f***in wrong.  I guess I was a bit naive at that time or too trusting in people, but a girl doing that kind of thing never even crossed my mind.  I never imagined a girl could just make something like that up. 

 

For the record, I haven't come across very many 'evil' women out there capable of something like that.  But they are around.

 

 

 

Oh.. they come in all sizes and shapes. I know someone who did this also. I also know one sweetheart that ran herself into a wall, ran screaming out of her boyfriends house for all the neighbors to see - and call the cops, and put the guy in jail. Thankfully she ran her mouth also and the charges were dropped against him, and made against her.

[southsider2k5]

Well, considering the fact that there is no evidence of any of these kids raping her.  Thats my conslusion.  These kids go to Duke, they arent from poor families.

 

With all due respect, that might be the most ignorant thing I have ever heard.

 

The DA seems to have some kind of evidence as he is planning to procede with the case, so it doesn't sound like there is "no evidence" to me. Quite the contrary if they feel they can take a case to the grand jury, even lacking the magic bullet of DNA proof, they must have something pretty impressive to go on.

[LosMediasBlancas]

My first look at how evil a woman can be was when I was 17 years old.  I worked with a girl who had told me her boyfriend dumped her.  I think he cheated on her or something... I guess they fought over it for like a week or so.  Anyway, she told him she was pregnant and needed money for an abortion.  I guess he said no at first, but she said she would go to the cops and say she was raped.  She told me he was either gonna pay with his wallet or his ass.  So he gave her the 300.00 she asked for.  She brought it in to work one day and was like I got paid!! 

 

She did that just to take money from him cause he broke up with her.  I was like that is just plain f***in wrong.  I guess I was a bit naive at that time or too trusting in people, but a girl doing that kind of thing never even crossed my mind.  I never imagined a girl could just make something like that up. 

 

For the record, I haven't come across very many 'evil' women out there capable of something like that.  But they are around.

 

 

 

Pffft, he got off easy.......and cheap.

My favorite is the 'don't worry, I'm on the pill story". You'll be paying for the next 18 years my friend.