take it easy on ozzie

[WCSox]

Not right off the bat?  Then when would be a good time?  August?

 

Maybe after Logan's actually pitched in a few major-league games? I wouldn't throw a rookie with next to no MLB experience into a critical hold situation against a stud like Hafner... ever.

[fathom]

Didn't Cotts pitch two innings the day before?  You know Ozzie.  There's no such thing as a 'rookie' with him.  If you're on the team,  you're gonna be counted on to produce.  When is Ozzie supposed to use the guy?  Strictly in games in which we're up 5+ runs?  Then people would complain that Logan isn't being tested in pressure situations.

 

There's not a single person on this site who would have been upset if Cotts came in and blew the game against Hafner.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Didn't Cotts pitch two innings the day before?  You know Ozzie.  There's no such thing as a 'rookie' with him.

So I should expect Brian Anderson to bat cleanup against Bartolo Colon and John Lackey, right?

 

If you're on the team,  you're gonna be counted on to produce.  When is Ozzie supposed to use the guy?  Strictly in games in which we're up 5+ runs?  Then people would complain that Logan isn't being tested in pressure situations.

 

Using Neal Cotts' 2004 season as an example, Ozzie only used Neal in 6 games all year when the Sox had a lead of 3 runs or less.

 

Using Bobby Jenks as an example, Bobby wasn't used in any pressure situations until the 14 inning game with the twins when he pitched 3 in extras, that was after almost 2 months in the majors. Only then was he started to be worked into the pressure situations.

[Gene Honda Civic]

There's not a single person on this site who would have been upset if Cotts came in and blew the game against Hafner.

That's not correct either though. There would have been plenty of people upset, but their anger would have been directed at Neal, not Ozzie.

[WCSox]

That's not correct either though. There would have been plenty of people upset, but their anger would have been directed at Neal, not Ozzie.

 

^^^^

[Jordan4life_2007]

Damn, I just got gang raped. lol. Anyway, I'm not getting excited over this. Ozzie has all my trust.

[SnB]

That's not correct either though. There would have been plenty of people upset, but their anger would have been directed at Neal, not Ozzie.

yeup, cheat's definitely got this right.

[fathom]

yeup, cheat's definitely got this right.

 

And of course, that's what I meant. I don't think anyone would have blamed Ozzie for putting in our best lefty reliever to face the best lefty hitter in the AL Central.

[southsider2k5]

And of course, that's what I meant.  I don't think anyone would have blamed Ozzie for putting in our best lefty reliever to face the best lefty hitter in the AL Central.

 

Riiiiiiiiiiiight. No one would have gotten on here and mentioned that Neal pitched two innings the prior day and that Logan got Hafner to GIDP on opening day and ripped Ozzie for using Cotts despite those facts. That is laughable.

[Guest JimH]

Riiiiiiiiiiiight.  No one would have gotten on here and mentioned that Neal pitched two innings the prior day and that Logan got Hafner to GIDP on opening day and ripped Ozzie for using Cotts despite those facts.  That is laughable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

Good one Mike.

 

Fasten your seat belt though, we have more qualified baseball managers on this site than anywhere else on the planet, and I'm sure they'll weigh in frequently. Mostly after the fact.

 

Hopefully Logan bounces back. I still think they're gonna look at him very closely for a month ... or less. He might be a great kid and a real underdog story but they can't afford bad results. Granted Hafner is a beast but let's face it, that's Logan's job. Ozzie will put him right back on the horse this weekend, probably against Stairs. I suspect Thornton will get some innings in this weekend too.

[kapkomet]

Look peoplel Ozzie did "stupid s***" all year last year and figured out what situations people will respond in, or WON'T respond in. You have to do this. Notice he didn't really screw around with stuff in the playoffs. It could be because then he knew how certain folks would respond.

 

You HAVE to put these guys in that situation now to evaluate what your needs are.

 

But that's ok. I'm sure everyone on here can manage better.

[southsider2k5]

I think Ozzie saids it best

 

"We have the best stations in Chicago. They think they know baseball, but they don't know [expletive]. ... If people on the radio were so smart, they'd be in the [expletive] dugout with me. Every time the media second-guesses you, it's after something happens, not before."

[WCSox]

Notice he didn't really screw around with stuff in the playoffs.

 

You HAVE to put these guys in that situation now to evaluate what your needs are.

 

 

Funny, I thought that's what Spring Training was for.

 

Ozzie's right, though. He knows a hell of a lot more about managing than any of us ever will. That said, I still think that he made a mistake on Wednesday.

[kapkomet]

Funny, I thought that's what Spring Training was for.

 

Ozzie's right, though.  He knows a hell of a lot more about managing than any of us ever will.  That said, I still think that he made a mistake on Wednesday.

Funny - not all clubs have that luxury. Even the Sox. Spring Training don't mean s*** when it comes to the regular season. Logan had a great spring and punched his ticket back north. It certainly doesn't mean that he can't wet all over himself for the first couple of months here and be sent back. You have to put these kids in situations they have not been in before to see how they handle reality. Spring Training is far from reality, IMO.

[fathom]

Riiiiiiiiiiiight.  No one would have gotten on here and mentioned that Neal pitched two innings the prior day and that Logan got Hafner to GIDP on opening day and ripped Ozzie for using Cotts despite those facts.  That is laughable.

 

That leads to why did Cotts pitch 2 innings in a game we were getting blown out in? We're going to need him to be able to pitch in key situations all year, and this early in the season, there's no reason for him to be pitching 2 innings in a no-win situation. It's not a big deal though.

 

BTW, I even think that Ozzie thought he made the wrong choice with Logan instead of Cotts. His reason was that Logan was warming up the inning before, and he didn't want him to have to cool off.

[fathom]

Ozzie will put him right back on the horse this weekend, probably against Stairs.  I suspect Thornton will get some innings in this weekend too.

 

Remember, Matt Stairs = Babe Ruth in the mind of Ozzie Guillen.

[WCSox]

Funny - not all clubs have that luxury.  Even the Sox.  Spring Training don't mean s*** when it comes to the regular season.  Logan had a great spring and punched his ticket back north.  It certainly doesn't mean that he can't wet all over himself for the first couple of months here and be sent back.  You have to put these kids in situations they have not been in before to see how they handle reality.  Spring Training is far from reality, IMO.

 

I have no problem with Ozzie putting in Logan to hold a one-run lead in a meaningless game against the Royals where, say, we've already won the first two games. But putting him in to face Hafner when we're six outs away from taking the series from the Indians? No. In that situation, Logan's development takes a back seat to winning the series.

 

Ozzie knows a hell of a lot more about baseball than I do, but he's not infallible.

Edited April 7, 2006 by WCSox

[Guest JimH]

What's the difference? Cotts came on and gave up the go ahead run on a double by Jason Michaels, a righthanded hitter. No one is sure that Cotts would've gotten Hafner out.

 

The reason they lost the game is because they left 14 runners on.

[southsider2k5]

What's the difference?  Cotts came on and gave up the go ahead run on a double by Jason Michaels, a righthanded hitter.  No one is sure that Cotts would've gotten Hafner out. 

 

The reason they lost the game is because they left 14 runners on.

And we have a winner!!!

[Guest JimH]

I have no problem with Ozzie putting in Logan to hold a one-run lead in a meaningless game against the Royals where, say, we've already won the first two games.  But putting him in to face Hafner when we're six outs away from taking the series from the Indians?  No.  In that situation, Logan's development takes a back seat to winning the series.

 

Ozzie knows a hell of a lot more about baseball than I do, but he's not infallible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If he's afraid to put him in to face Hafner then Logan shouldn't be on the team.

 

It was a bad pitch, that's not the managers fault.

[WCSox]

What's the difference?  Cotts came on and gave up the go ahead run on a double by Jason Michaels, a righthanded hitter.  No one is sure that Cotts would've gotten Hafner out.

 

I like Cotts' chances (or McCarthy's) over those of a rookie with almost zero regular-season MLB experience. At least Cotts was able to pitch a scoreless inning before giving up a run.

 

The reason they lost the game is because they left 14 runners on.

 

That's true, but it doesn't excuse using a rookie with only two innings of MLB experience in a critical relief situation.

Edited April 7, 2006 by WCSox

[WCSox]

If he's afraid to put him in to face Hafner then Logan shouldn't be on the team.

 

Ozzie was "afraid" to use Jenks in the closer role last year until Hermanson got hurt. So, I guess that he shouldn't have been on the team, either?

[jenksd]

Funny, I thought that's what Spring Training was for.

 

 

Going off that ridiculous notion...If learning about your new players is only allowable during spring training, then based on spring training, Boone Logan would be our closer and would be the best option to put up against hafner.

Edited April 7, 2006 by jenksd

[WCSox]

Going off that ridiculous notion...If learning about your new players is only allowable during spring training, then based on spring training, Boone Logan would be our closer and would be the best option to put up against hafner.

 

If the Sox had won Tuesday's game, I'd agree with you. However, winning a regular-season series against a divisionl rival (and likely playoff contender) should take precedence over "learning about a new player."

[fathom]

What's the difference?  Cotts came on and gave up the go ahead run on a double by Jason Michaels, a righthanded hitter.  No one is sure that Cotts would've gotten Hafner out. 

 

The reason they lost the game is because they left 14 runners on.

 

In that situation in the 8th, Hafner is trying to tie the game up with one swing. Cotts is one of the hardest guys in baseball to homer against. Like you said, no one is sure that Cotts would have gotten Hafner out. However, I'm fairly confident in saying that Cotts had a much greater chance of keeping Hafner in the park. And as for the Michaels AB, I think Ozzie is going to learn to go with righties against him in those situations. He can just rake against LHP.

 

The reasons we lost were that our hitters couldn't execute in the last 5 innings of the game, and Boone Logan had a job to do, and made an awful pitch. I'm not freaking out about one loss though. There will be plenty of more games like this that we lose, and plenty of games that we'll win that we didn't deserve to.