WHarris1 Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Apr 8, 2006 -> 04:24 PM) Indians and Tigers losses today would take me from suicidal to depressed. Go Rangers AWESOME!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Apr 8, 2006 -> 06:02 PM) Final--Cleveland defeated Minnesota 3-0. They're now 4-1. Pronk was 3-3 with 2RBI, HR, 2B, 1B, BB. My guy Liriano (aka type of hardthrowing starter we'll never see in our organization) struck out 4 over 2.2IP. He's another player that's going to haunt the dreams of AL Central opponents for a LONG time. Flash, you're a really good poster, and I respect most of your opinions -- but do you absolutely have to trash our minor league organization every 5 seconds? Sure, it would be nice to have one or more of those flamethrowing guys everybody drools over. But, considering we draft 15th or lower EVERY year, what do you expect? You're not gonna find guys like Liriano and Verlander where we usually pick. It's just not gonna happen. Edited April 9, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Apr 8, 2006 -> 02:17 PM) I didn't mean to give the Indians credit for developing him. A sizable portion of the Indians club was assembled from trades as it is. I know Sizemore and Lee came over from Montreal during the Colon trade, and I believe Belliard was aquired from Colorado (?). I'm sure there are several I'm forgetting. Belliard was a top prospect who bellied up with the Brewers and than went to Colorado and sucked. I don't think the Tribe traded for him nor did they ever possibly expect him to figure things out all of a sudden. Him whooping like he has was like how Elo came in and kicked butt and won the Cy Young that year for us (a total shock). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Apr 9, 2006 -> 12:34 AM) Flash, you're a really good poster, and I respect most of your opinions -- but do you absolutely have to trash our minor league organization every 5 seconds? Sure, it would be nice to have one or more of those flamethrowing guys everybody drools over. But, considering we draft 15th or lower EVERY year, what do you expect? You're not gonna find guys like Liriano and Verlander where we usually pick. It's just not gonna happen. First--no, I don't have to continually insult our minor league system. It's usually something which which erupts whenever I witness a fellow divisional rival promote legitimate prospects. Which, by the way, appears to be occuring very frequently. I believe our club is an ideal position to contend this year, perhaps next--basically, as long as this current rotation remains intact and unscathed. Contract extensions have all but ensured this, but I'm wearly about Garcia(velocity/health), Garland(consistency), Contreras(age). Hell, who knows if we're willing to pay Buehrle the contract he'll undoubtedly seek. Reinsdorf may have to break the bank in both regards to money and years to maintain him, whether or not it's his policy. This division is beginning to gain respectably. We'll need a consistent flux of talent to compete. And not just league average outfielders or unproven single A players, but Brandon McCarthy's--prospects with legitimate potential. See, our payroll may exceed 100million, but we're rarely going to outbid other organizations for legitimate talent. You can suggest Konerko as an example, but his situation is unique. I know many Soxtalkians approve of Williams current organizational model which involves unloading prospects left/right for proven major league talent. I don't mind unloading prospects, in the event those prospects remaining can still be depended upon to one day contribute. This may be a problem. Look at our damn infield prospects, for example. It's pathetic. Our pitchers? Unless you hold high hopes in Lance Broadway securing the #4 spot, not much there. Sure, Lumsden has talent, but who knows how his arm endures a full season of pitch following injury. They need talent. Even those we've regarded as promising (Sweeney/Owens/Fields) have big years ahead of them to prove their worth. You're correct to mention our draft position. Verlander was picked, IIRC, second in the overall draft. I have no idea where/when/how San Francisco picked up Liriano. Probably a free agent signing from the Dominican Republic. Our organization should probably start investing more money in hiring scouts to counter our continually low draft positions. Get their asses out to the Dominican Republic, Venezuela, to scout. If that doesn't work, hire private detectives to follow Oakland and Minnesota scouts to steal their picks. Ozzie Guillen should absolutely whore his popularity in Venezuela right now to draw the attention of quality, young talent to our baseball camp. The accounts I've read of native Venezuelan's loving the man, I expect a monopoly of prospects within our baseball camps. The next Felix Hernandez emerging from that country better have a White Sox jersey on. Yeah, so I believe I answered your question somewhere within the post. Edited April 9, 2006 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Apr 9, 2006 -> 01:54 AM) First--no, I don't have to continually insult our minor league system. It's usually something which which erupts whenever I witness a fellow divisional rival promote legitimate prospects. Which, by the way, appears to be occuring very frequently. Do guys like McCarthy, Cotts, and Jenks not qualify as "legitimate" prospects? I believe our club is an ideal position to contend this year, perhaps next--basically, as long as this current rotation remains intact and unscathed. Contract extensions have all but ensured this, but I'm wearly about Garcia(velocity/health), Garland(consistency), Contreras(age). Hell, who knows if we're willing to pay Buehrle the contract he'll undoubtedly seek. Reinsdorf may have to break the bank in both regards to money and years to maintain him, whether or not it's his policy. It's way too early to be overly concerned with Garcia's velocity. As far as his health goes, he's made atleast 30 starts in 6 of the last 7 seasons. Until he takes multiple trips to the dl, I don't really see a health issue. Fair points on Garland and Contreras. I happen to believe last year was a case of two talented pitchers, one being all of 26, realizing their tremendous talent; however, I'll concede that they have to prove that their career seasons were no fluke. I, for one, don't worry about losing Buehrle. I truly believe he'll just have to up and leave for him not to be a member of the Sox after his current contract is up. This division is beginning to gain respectably. We'll need a consistent flux of talent to compete. And not just league average outfielders or unproven single A players, but Brandon McCarthy's--prospects with legitimate potential. See, our payroll may exceed 100million, but we're rarely going to outbid other organizations for legitimate talent. You can suggest Konerko as an example, but his situation is unique. I agree with most of what you're saying here. The farm system has definitely thinned out the last couple years. But, I look at that, as should you -- as a good thing. Who were our top 5 prospects last year? I'm not sure right off the top of my head. Bmac, Anderson, Sweeney, Young, and Gio? Well, two of those guys are with the Sox. Sweeney is well on his way. And we turned Young and Gio into Jim Thome and Javier Vazquez -- and A LOT of cash. I disagree with the suggestion that we won't be able to outbid other teams for legitimate talent. Winning, or more importantly, winning consistently -- is a very powerful thing. Players are pretty much like fans, if you win, they'll come. I know many Soxtalkians approve of Williams current organizational model which involves unloading prospects left/right for proven major league talent. I don't mind unloading prospects, in the event those prospects remaining can still be depended upon to one day contribute. This may be a problem. Look at our damn infield prospects, for example. It's pathetic. Our pitchers? Unless you hold high hopes in Lance Broadway securing the #4 spot, not much there. Sure, Lumsden has talent, but who knows how his arm endures a full season of pitch following injury. They need talent. Even those we've regarded as promising (Sweeney/Owens/Fields) have big years ahead of them to prove their worth. The Sox are in a rare position of, barring anything unforeseen, being pretty much set in their rotation for atleast the next 2-3 years. How many other teams can say that? I totally agree that the pitching talent in the minors needs to be replenished. But, unlike most other teams, we have time to do that. I know Broadway doesn't throw 97, but I think it's short-sighted to dismiss him because of that. As far as position talent, I feel we've got some talented guys that could make some noise in the next few years -- Sweeney being an obvious one. But yeah, I agree with the gist of what you're saying here. You're correct to mention our draft position. Verlander was picked, IIRC, second in the overall draft. I have no idea where/when/how San Francisco picked up Liriano. Probably a free agent signing from the Dominican Republic. Our organization should probably start investing more money in hiring scouts to counter our continually low draft positions. Get their asses out to the Dominican Republic, Venezuela, to scout. If that doesn't work, hire private detectives to follow Oakland and Minnesota scouts to steal their picks. No arugment here. I think it's very important to expand the talent search to counter our lack of high draft picks. Anderson Gomes, who's from Brazil, I believe, is a guy to watch out for. There's a couple other guys I know I'm forgetting about; therefore, it does look like we're moving in the right direction in this department. Ozzie Guillen should absolutely whore his popularity in Venezuela right now to draw the attention of quality, young talent to our baseball camp. The accounts I've read of native Venezuelan's loving the man, I expect a monopoly of prospects within our baseball camps. The next Felix Hernandez emerging from that country better have a White Sox jersey on. Agreed on all fronts here. Yeah, so I believe I answered your question somewhere within the post. LOL. You made me work on this one. Edited April 9, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benchwarmerjim Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Hafner walked in his first at bat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benchwarmerjim Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Hafner flied out to center to end his streak at 11 at bats but then Perez hits a homerun off Santana. 1-0 Tribe in the bottom of the fouth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Apr 9, 2006 -> 01:34 AM) Flash, you're a really good poster, and I respect most of your opinions -- but do you absolutely have to trash our minor league organization every 5 seconds? Sure, it would be nice to have one or more of those flamethrowing guys everybody drools over. But, considering we draft 15th or lower EVERY year, what do you expect? You're not gonna find guys like Liriano and Verlander where we usually pick. It's just not gonna happen. - All pitchers out of the top 50 or so prospects in baseball: - Francisco Liriano - Twins - FA - Justin Verlander - Tigers - 2nd overall - Matt Cain - Giants - 25th overall - Chad Billingsley - Dodgers - 24th overall - Jon Lester - Red Sox - 57th overall - Jon Papelbon - Red Sox - 114th overall - Joel Zumaya - Tigers - 320th overall - Philip Hughes - Yankees - 23th overall - John Danks - Rangers - 9th overall - Homer Bailey - Blue Jays - 7th overall - Anthony Reyes - Cardinals - 455th overall - Scott Elbert - Dodgers - 17th overall - Adam Miller - Indians - 31st overall - Jeremy Sowers - Indians - 6th overall - Adam Loewen - Orioles - 4th overall - Mark Rogers - Brewers - 5th overall - Anibal Sanchez - Marlins - FA - Craig Hansen - Red Sox - 26th overall - Thomas Diamond - Rangers - 10th overall - Mike Pelfrey - Dodgers - 9th overall - Fausto Carmona - Indians - FA |RED = Drafted 16th overall or later| 13/21 were drafted after the 15th pick in the draft or were FAs. Is it possible that maybe the problem isn't our draft position but instead our college/latin country scouting and minor league pitcher developement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxpranos Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Tigers lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benchwarmerjim Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Liriano to start sooner rather than later? There is evidence that the Twins are considering using lefthander Francisco Liriano as a starter. How soon is not known. Liriano has made two appearances out of the bullpen. The Twins want Liriano, one of the game's top starting pitching prospects, to build up stamina to start. His 22/3 innings of shutout relief -- during which he hit 98 miles per hour on the radar gun -- impressed scouts in attendance as well as the Twins. "He's like [Johan] Santana was, but he's ahead of Santana," Gardenhire said, "He has better pitches right now than Santana did at that age. Eventually, sure, you don't want to leave that out there in the bullpen. You want to use that. We'll see how it goes along." Someone would have to leave the rotation to make room for Liriano, which would make for a tough decision. Kyle Lohse didn't pitch well Friday but he's making $3.95 million. Scott Baker couldn't get through five innings Saturday -- but he did manage to escape a couple of jams without much damage. "You can start [Liriano] and let him go three or four innings and someone else has to [come] in, which is fine," Gardenhire said. "You're going to build his arm strength up as you go along. We want to make sure his feet are grounded." http://www.startribune.com/509/story/361146.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Really, choosing between Baker and Lohse is a tough choice? No questions ask (if I was a Twins fan), Baker -- without a doubt. You'd think Lohse would fetch something on the trade market. He's by no means a great pitcher, but he's only slightly below league average -- far worse pitchers (ie Eric Milton) command far greater contracts. Oh well -- I'm not complaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benchwarmerjim Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Im not a big fan of Lohse. I thought we should of traded him for a bat in the offseason he is so inconsistent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Apr 10, 2006 -> 04:38 PM) Really, choosing between Baker and Lohse is a tough choice? No questions ask (if I was a Twins fan), Baker -- without a doubt. Talking to Gleeman, he always brings up their respective salaries. I don't see the relationship between salary and your role on the team. If Baker is better than Lohse -- and by almost all accounts he is -- he should be in the rotation, regarless of their salary gap. Who cares if you have $4M in "wasting away" in the bullpen. It's better than having $4M wasting your chances every 5th day in the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Team W L PCT GB Cleveland 5 1 .833 - Detroit 5 2 .714 0.5 Chi White Sox 3 4 .429 2.5 Kansas City 2 3 .400 2.5 Minnesota 1 5 .167 4.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChWRoCk2 Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Apr 10, 2006 -> 05:20 PM) Team W L PCT GB Cleveland 5 1 .833 - Detroit 5 2 .714 0.5 Chi White Sox 3 4 .429 2.5 Kansas City 2 3 .400 2.5 Minnesota 1 5 .167 4.0 nice to see the twins in last Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Apr 10, 2006 -> 05:20 PM) Team W L PCT GB Cleveland 5 1 .833 - Detroit 5 2 .714 0.5 Chi White Sox 3 4 .429 2.5 Kansas City 2 3 .400 2.5 Minnesota 1 5 .167 4.0 That's one hell of a sig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/s...cities_baseball Rotation gyration? With the day off Monday, the Twins are considering keeping No. 1 starter Johan Santana on his regular fifth-day schedule, but Gardenhire said the plan would be to flip Santana with fifth starter Scott Baker, not to skip Baker in the rotation. Never to look too far ahead, but when Santana who makes this team look like a bad high school team is on the horizon, I keep track of where he lands. If this is true and holds up. We would miss santana in our first twins series. He would face the Angels instead. It would be Baker, Radke and Silva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Haha! Yanks losing in home opener to the Royals. AL Central = best in baseball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 I probably shouldn't have opened my mouth so soon. Yanks making a comeback in the 8th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Apr 11, 2006 -> 03:00 PM) I probably shouldn't have opened my mouth so soon. Yanks making a comeback in the 8th. And have now won it 9-7 after trailing 7-4. Jeter gave them the lead in the 8th with a 3-run homer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 News flash....the Indians are good. It's going to be a hell of a race with them this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Indians just rolling through another game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Apr 12, 2006 -> 12:11 AM) Indians just rolling through another game It's amazing how easy they make it seem once they get on a roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benchwarmerjim Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Chavez with a 2nd inning HR 1-0 A's over Twins in the 2nd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 It'd be nice if someone would beat those damn Injuns one of these days. Are they ever going to play someone that can actually hit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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