Cwsox/Vince

[BrandoFan]

just if you are going to worship everything he does, tell it all - you are so defensive about him, says a lot

 

It's total BS because of:

 

1. I almost always preface Jose posts by saying stuff like "he's been dead cold for about a month now"....or "up until he came to Chicago, he was a deeply mediocre underachiever"....or "he is still a below average defensively..."

 

2. You give me so much ammo by indiscriminantely throwing error and avg. totals out there and pomposly pretending like it's case closed. It's the arrogance that's gets to me, very unlike you when it comes to Jose....My "worshipping" reaction isnone other than a backlash to countless shallow "Jose is horrible" posts, I simply pointed out facts and my opinion thereon.

 

3. At various times, I have defended Carlos Lee, Miguel Olivo, Billy Koch, Flash Gordon, Brian Daubach, Paul Konerko, Graffanino and especially Jimenez (ask Steff on the latter one, lol)...........At various times I have severely criticized Frank Thomas, Joe Crede, and my former favorite Sox players, Albert Belle and Ray Durham.....So I can be very objective about players, and if Jose continues at this rate for the remainder of the year (unlikely), I will be tearing him a new one on these boards more than once, believe you me.

 

4. I don't believe that things like "spiritual leadership" and "clubhouse attitude" are worthless like some of you seem to do. So sue me....I also truly think there is such a thing as clutch. Ditto.

[BrandoFan]

Btw Borchard just run into Jose on a flyball....And what does Jose do when gets up? Pats JoBo on the back and they run to the dugout together discussing the play, all smiles.

 

Agin, like after win in Toronto, it's the little things that don't show up in stats and don't really exist if you don't watch the games...Can you imagine what would happened if Mr. Million Dollar Braids got rammed into, with possibility of him being injured by a rookie on a stupid play? Why he'd be pissed at him for the remainer of his life, which only would made the chemistry worse and JoBo wouldn't have learned what he did wrong on the play...

 

Borchard just doubled,,,,

[cwsox]

I have been so wrong, I see the errors of my ways. None of St JosE6's fielding miscues ever costs us a game, not ever, not ever. How could I have been so wrong? Again, I confess, that NONE of St JosE6's fielding miscues costs us a game ever.

[Chisoxfn]

Lol, I knew that was coming.

[Bmr31]

JOSE IS A f***ING AWFUL SS!!!!!!!!!!!

[BrandoFan]

I have been so wrong, I see the errors of my ways.  None of St JosE6's fielding miscues ever costs us a game, not ever, not ever.  How could I have been so wrong?  Again, I confess, that NONE of St JosE6's fielding miscues costs us a game ever.

It's only sarcasm if it works, Vince, so relax.

 

It was a big-swing, little blooper, sun blarring, tough play...not an error, Jose didn't bail out the Sox for once...so what? He ain't superman.

 

Cost games? Are you for real? I was told Deadroit crack was the most powerful.....the only game that was lost on Jose "miscue" was Minnesota and that was the game where all the runs scored were credited to Jose's bat, so in essence Jose's glove has cost us--get ready for this....ZERO games. Talk to Vizquel and Tejada about costing games this year, they might know something about it...

 

Swing and miss, Vince.

[cwsox]

Lol, I knew that was coming.

I am always the first to admit my mistakes!

 

I have been so f***ing unfair to St JosE6!

 

Or, perhaps, when I first read the first two posts of this thread, I had a gut feeling how the game would end -

[BrandoFan]

JOSE IS A f***ING AWFUL SS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Yeah, one error in the last 22 games.....2 DPs turned today in addition to a linedrive taken away and almost saved the game in the 9th as well....Yes, very bad indeed.

 

Talk to Jimenez about bad D. Or Crede. Or Konerko and Thomas. Jose is mediocre and always will be, no biggie.

[Bmr31]

It's only sarcasm if it works, Vince, so relax.

 

It was a big-swing, little blooper, sun blarring, tough play...not an error, Jose didn't bail out the Sox for once...so what?

 

Cost games? Are you for real? I was told Deadroit crack was the most powerful.....the only game that was lost on Jose "miscue" was Minnesota and that was the game where all the runs scored were credited to Jose's bat, so in essence Jose's glove has cost us--get ready for this....ZERO games. Talk to Vizquel and Tejada about costing games this year, they might know something about it...

 

Swing and miss, Vince.

Brando, I am done fighting with you. However, if you think this clowns glove doesnt cost us a dozen games a year, you know nothing about baseball.

[cwsox]

Brando, I am done fighting with you.  However, if you think this clowns glove doesnt cost us a dozen games a year, you know nothing about baseball.

BMR, we seldom agree, but when you are right, you are right

 

 

Makes Christmas gift giving for others easy - just need to get some folks some kneepads. I wonder if they wait until Jose is out of the shower, or do they like him all sweaty?

[YASNY]

Vince, I like you man. You are a good guy and smart baseball fan. But when it comes to Jose, you come across as a pompous ass.

[CubKilla]

Got off your f***ing high horse Vince. This team is never going to go out and pursue an ARod or a Nomar or a Tejada so you can forget about that ever f***ing happening. Instead of gloating about the misfortune of Jose costing the White Sox the game today, you should be pissed at the manager that you have defended on this board for some time now. A manager that, again today, showed that he has no f***ing clue about line-ups, situational hitting, when to/when not to make a pitching change, etc. etc. etc. This team f***ing sucks and although Jose is the goat for today, guess what????? IT'S NOT ALL OF HIS FAULT. With Jerry Reinsdorf, the SS you're going to get is a JosE6 or a K-layton. Get used to it because with each, it's a give and take.

[Bmr31]

Vince, I like you man.  You are a good guy and smart baseball fan.  But when it comes to Jose, you come across as a pompous ass.

Hes human man, lay off.

[clujer420]

you come across as a pompous ass.

That could be said about 90% of us in here.

[BrandoFan]

Got off your f***ing high horse Vince. This team is never going to go out and pursue an ARod or a Nomar or a Tejada so you can forget about that ever f***ing happening

 

But wait in order for Jose to be a mediocre defensive player (foeget about a good one), he needs to make a brilliant, stretch dives on every.single.play. to bail out the team.....or else he is a worthless bum.

 

And have you checked Nomar and Tejada's D. lately? There is no way they are better than Jose this year, all bulked up, slow and making terrible jumps.

 

 

Face it, it was makeable play but not an easy by no means, for once Jose failed to save the day, cry me a river.

[YASNY]

Hes human man, lay off.

Look... I just said he "comes across" ... that is not calling him one. I chose my words carefully, so that it wasn't a direct personal insult. And I prefaced the remark with compliments. I don't think I was too rough on him. If so, then Vince, I apologize.

[BrandoFan]

Vince, way to go not addressing the title post as well as the "GiDP" season stat one in the Game Thread....shows much class and fair-mindedness.

 

 

 

 

Big up.

[BrandoFan]

BMR, we seldom agree, but when you are right, you are right

 

I've had a lot of good will toward you, bro and have been on your side on many issues in the past, but this is getting out of hand...

 

I don't know anything about baseball you say? That may very well be true, but out of 2000+ posts of yours...show me ONE that contains any special baseball insight or showcases superb arguementative skill. Molto, Chisoxfan, Whitesox6111995, Cludjer and many others have all a ton of "analytical" posts......where's yours?

 

I wqould suggest before you decide to engage in pompous, lame sarcasmo smack, why don't you learn what OPS and Rbi/ab ratio stand for or how Real Range Rating is...Maybe? I never expect anything however elemental from BMR, but you aim so high all the time, so it's time to back it up, no?

[clujer420]

Molto, Chisoxfan, Whitesox6111995, Cludjer and many others  have all a ton of "analytical" posts......where's yours?

*Feels loved for a moment, then realizes that Brando called me a Clud *

[Bmr31]

I've had a lot of good will toward you, bro and have been on your side on many issues in  the past, but this is getting out of hand...

 

I don't know anything about baseball you say?  That may very well be true, but out of 2000+ posts of yours...show me ONE that contains any special baseball insight or showcases superb arguementative skill.  Molto, Chisoxfan, Whitesox6111995, Cludjer and many others  have all a ton of "analytical" posts......where's yours?

 

I wqould suggest before you decide to engage in pompous, lame sarcasmo smack, why don't you learn what OPS and Rbi/ab ratio stand for or how Real Range Rating is...Maybe? I never expect anything however elemental from BMR, but you aim so high all the time, so it's time to back it up, no?

Dude, everyone is different. You are never going to see "analytical" posts from some members, and its not because theyre stupid. I know baseball as well as anyone. I dont study meaningless stats, and I never will. I know enough from watching baseball, to tell you how good each player is. When I am on this site, I am usually doing several things at once. Talking to friends, watching baseball, paying blls, running my 10 fantasy baseball teams, on the phone, on and on and on. My posts are short and sweet for a reason. I am POSITIVE you can say the same about many of the other members. Get additional interests before you judge other members.

[BrandoFan]

Get other interests before you attack others

 

Keep on posting on Fri and Sat. nights (little feature called 'post search", duh?), maybe you will convince somebody somewhere that you have a life and interests....Oh, sweet irony, how I love thee let me count the ways, hehe

 

 

I have never seen more meaningless stats than errors and batting average.....maybe home runs....Coincidentally they are your favorites, I bet.

[Bmr31]

Keep on posting on Fri and Sat.  nights (little feature called 'post search", duh?), maybe you will convince somebody somewhere that you have a life and interests....Oh, sweet irony, how I love thee let me count the ways, hehe

lol dude you dont need to get all defensive. Im a store director in retail, my weekends are different than yours. I post when i am home. Plain and simple.

[Bmr31]

Keep on posting on Fri and Sat.  nights (little feature called 'post search", duh?), maybe you will convince somebody somewhere that you have a life and interests....Oh, sweet irony, how I love thee let me count the ways, hehe

 

 

I have never seen more meaningless stats than errors and batting average.....maybe home runs....Coincidentally they are your favorites, I bet.

I dont care about ANY stats, and if you have been paying such close attention to my posts, youd know that by now. What do i need stats for?

[clujer420]

Keep on posting on Fri and Sat.  nights (little feature called 'post search", duh?), maybe you will convince somebody somewhere that you have a life and interests....Oh, sweet irony, how I love thee let me count the ways, hehe

 

 

I have never seen more meaningless stats than errors and batting average.....maybe home runs....Coincidentally they are your favorites, I bet.

I dont care about ANY stats, and if you have been paying such close attention to my posts, youd know that by now. What do i need stats for?

Why is everyone so down on stats?

[cwsox]

Hes human man, lay off.

It is amazing in some ways -

 

the totally blind defense of any player.

 

I have my favorites but no matter how much I like a player, I can pretty much point out their procs and cons, their good plays and their mistakes. No player is perfect. No player fields 1.000 or bats 1.000. The ability to say, hey, this is my guy but today he scrwed up, or made an error, or a bone hearded play -

 

that is what is missing in all of those who go on and on about Jose Valentin. I cheer for him far, far more than most members of Soxtalk because I go to far, far more games than most, and I travel a hell of along way to get to the park and back. Off the top of my head, I can think that maybe only HSC and Steff have actually cheered for Jose more than I have.

 

When a bunch of "he is so perfect" threads keep getting posted, am I a pompous ass for tweaking that?

 

When people post l;ike arrogant assholes and self righteousness know-it-alls, am I to blame for tweaking that?

 

There is a huge difference between saying,

 

"in my opinion, Jose is one of the better shortstops out there and a valuable member of our team despite his higher tha usual error percaentage because of the way he plays

 

and saying

 

none of his errors have ever cost of a game and it a certified fact that we always win 60% of all agmes he plays in when that fails to take in account this year's schedule and the number of games Jose has played in versus right hand and left pitching and the Sox mark overall against those right vs left ahnded pitching.

 

It is the arrogance and the blind arguing that I make fun of, and why should I be not allowed to ever do that?

 

The game was barely over, and even the mose partisan Jose fan shouuld have been able to say, hey, he had the ball and he dropped it, Jose messed that play up. But did anyone say that? No - it was the instant Pavlovian dog defense of a player who muffed a play that lost the game.

 

Did Jose alone cost the game? No, we had failures in pitching and hitting. But the fact is, when the game was on the line, Jose f***ed up, he muffed a play he should have made. And we got the instant posts that Jose is yet Mr. Perfect. Rational posts would have said, yeah, "Jose usually makes the play but today he didn't, he'll get them tomorrow." But we didn't get that; no, we got the Pavolv's Dog "don;t blame Jose, he never does anythign wrong and he didn't do anything wrong and it's not his fault..."

 

That is not objective baseball watching, that is like a 7 year old who can't deal with reality.

 

On top of that, I have never caled anyone out by name. The only time I ever - which is rare - use someone's first name on this board, it is to compliment.

 

But I get called out by name - f*** you all. I could start thread titles using names with what I think of some of your all opinions - but I don't. Not because I am so cool, but just because it is childish and immature to call people out by name. There are a lot of opinions that have posted by people that I could call out by name. But I don't, because that is opposed to the spirit of soxtalk. And I do resent it when my name is used by people in posts since I have never given permission for my name to be thrown out in a cyber forum like that. It is bad list etiquette, it is a violation of privacy, and only friends speaking well of another shoyld use someone else's name in public on any internet list.

 

Plus, YASNY, why am I a pompous ass when I have never called anyone out by name? I took a lot of s***, a lot of s***, a lot of unfair s***, over my appreciation of Royce Clayton. I never called anyone out over that, not by name, not when Royce outhit Jose last season and out fieleded him on a percentage basis. I also admitted Royce's faults. I was also the first to suggest that Royce and Jose both needed to go and we needed to start anew. I still think that. The Sox will be better off when we have our shoirtstop of the future out there, not the one who will not be re-signed after this season unless he agrees to a massive pay cut.

 

It really was funny - Jose blows the paly and the Pavlov's dog instant defense was thrown up out here. And what did I do but agree with what was posted when I was called out by name. t appears that the bunch of people who can dish it out and cannot take it could be complied from this thread.

 

When rational comments about Jose are made, praising him where he should eb and criticising him where he should be, there is no response from me. But when the ignorant childish "jose is perfect can do no wrong stuff" is posted, I guess that I am not allowed to make a comment without being insulted or called out, huh?"

 

Blindness is not an admirable trait. Evaluate your favorites honestly and objectively. No player is perfect and blind defense of anyone is just silly.