Gregory Pratt Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 Should be interesting at the deadline, if they're behind say the Angels, if they trade Zito for a real good deal of prospects, cos he ain't coming back there. If I were a GM, I wouldn't want to rent Zito for one year and then have him sign with New York at the end of the season. I'd hold onto my prospects in that case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Apr 15, 2006 -> 10:17 PM) If I were a GM, I wouldn't want to rent Zito for one year and then have him sign with New York at the end of the season. I'd hold onto my prospects in that case. If it helps get you over the hump, you go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Apr 15, 2006 -> 10:21 PM) If it helps get you over the hump, you go for it. Usually I agree with that. But top-flight prospects for half-a-season? Giving up the future for VERY short-term results? In Oakland's case with Zito, I just wouldn't want to give up the future for three months of work. Four if you happen to be in the playoffs, but still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 Why all the Frank hate on this thread? The man may some outrageous things, but when healthy, he's a beast. I think the production race between him and Thome will be fun to watch this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ Apr 15, 2006 -> 10:34 PM) Why all the Frank hate on this thread? The man may some outrageous things, but when healthy, he's a beast. I think the production race between him and Thome will be fun to watch this year. Won't be close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Apr 15, 2006 -> 10:24 PM) Usually I agree with that. But top-flight prospects for half-a-season? Giving up the future for VERY short-term results? In Oakland's case with Zito, I just wouldn't want to give up the future for three months of work. Four if you happen to be in the playoffs, but still. 1) Freddy Garcia, Carlos Guillen, and John Halama got Houston into the playoffs one year indirectly. RJ then bolted for Arizona. You take the playoff birth over the specs every time with 1 exception, that being if your in the Cleveland Indians state as of 2004, where you are in a growing/maturing mode, where the players getting experience is more important long term than getting to the playoffs. 2) Miguel Olivo, Jeremy Reed, and Mike Morse netted the Sox a 2nd place finish in 2004, and the World Series clinching starter in 2005. Sometimes you can resign those guys...sometimes you can't. Sometimes it's worth the roll of the dice, sometimes it's not. If I think I'm a stud starter away from winning the whole thing, I'm selling my future for a winner...if I think I can resign him, etc... Regardless, both Thomas and Oakland are notoriously slow starters. I want to see what both look like in July...I think I have a pretty good idea of what I will see right now already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Apr 15, 2006 -> 11:43 PM) 1) Freddy Garcia, Carlos Guillen, and John Halama got Houston into the playoffs one year indirectly. RJ then bolted for Arizona. You take the playoff birth over the specs every time with 1 exception, that being if your in the Cleveland Indians state as of 2004, where you are in a growing/maturing mode, where the players getting experience is more important long term than getting to the playoffs. 2) Miguel Olivo, Jeremy Reed, and Mike Morse netted the Sox a 2nd place finish in 2004, and the World Series clinching starter in 2005. Sometimes you can resign those guys...sometimes you can't. Sometimes it's worth the roll of the dice, sometimes it's not. If I think I'm a stud starter away from winning the whole thing, I'm selling my future for a winner...if I think I can resign him, etc... Regardless, both Thomas and Oakland are notoriously slow starters. I want to see what both look like in July...I think I have a pretty good idea of what I will see right now already. Ya, I should have added that I highly, highly doubt Oakland is out of the playoff race come the deadline. Their pitching is just too good for that to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Apr 16, 2006 -> 02:24 PM) Usually I agree with that. But top-flight prospects for half-a-season? Giving up the future for VERY short-term results? In Oakland's case with Zito, I just wouldn't want to give up the future for three months of work. Four if you happen to be in the playoffs, but still. In Oakland's case, if he can get some really good prospects for Zito, I would do it. And I'm ranging in a number of factors here, such as the depth of starting pitching that they have, and the budget that they've got to work with. And Beane's shown he's not gun shy to pull the trigger in that type of situation with Mulder and Hudson. But you saw the impact the Carlos Beltran acquisition had for Houston when they got him in 2004. And the players they gave up, Octavio Dotel did nothing for Oakland, and Mark Teahan and John Buck are struggling in Kansas City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Apr 16, 2006 -> 02:22 AM) And Beane's shown he's not gun shy to pull the trigger in that type of situation with Mulder and Hudson. I would disagree quite a bit regarding that. He's never really shown the ability to firesale midseason. In the offseason, sure...but you'd have to offer a hell of a package to get him even thinking about trading Zito at the moment or in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3RDBASE Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 ? With Thome coming off an injury last season... if he continues this dominance...would he be in the running for comeback player of the year? So far so good (health wise) Just curious how that is judged ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 QUOTE(3RDBASE @ Apr 16, 2006 -> 03:58 PM) ? With Thome coming off an injury last season... if he continues this dominance...would he be in the running for comeback player of the year? So far so good (health wise) Just curious how that is judged ? he could be in the running for mvp also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Frank hit another HR tonight! Congrats to the Big Hurt in his quest for 500. Moments ago, he lined out to the SS--looks like the Frank we came to love at the plate is in full effect. Too bad health had to drive him away from the Sox's plans this year. Still, I wish him the best, and commend KW for making the tough decision to let the franchise's all-time player walk away in the best interests of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeGone33 Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ Apr 19, 2006 -> 09:18 PM) Frank hit another HR tonight! Congrats to the Big Hurt in his quest for 500. Moments ago, he lined out to the SS--looks like the Frank we came to love at the plate is in full effect. Too bad health had to drive him away from the Sox's plans this year. Still, I wish him the best, and commend KW for making the tough decision to let the franchise's all-time player walk away in the best interests of the team. Yep, the Big Hurt with another solo meaningless homerun. Good to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iguchi=dank Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 i loved frank, and i love thome. and just for fun here's a little stat for ya. with the A's down 8-1 i'm calling it a loss. Thome 7 HR - team W/L in HR games 6-1 Frank 4 HR - team W/L in HR games 1-3 Now if your a white sox guy who doesn't care to rub it in a little to the big hurt while still cheering for his HOF induction. its funny and brings a little smirk. also thomas obp is more than .1 lower than thome's avg. also funny. this sox team is a juggernaut by the way, and thome instead of thomas is a big reason for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 (edited) Yep, the Big Hurt with another solo meaningless homerun. Good to see. Yea, because when Frank hit his HR it tied it up 1-1. I suppose you think Frank should be blamed for the horrible A's pitching in this game as well? Yea, I'm sure Frank was sitting in the dugout thinking, "man, I hope nobody is on base when I get up, because then I'll try harder because I hate playing for the team." Thome 7 HR - team W/L in HR games 6-1 Frank 4 HR - team W/L in HR games 1-3 Give me a break man. I suppose that Barry Bonds is also crap (aside from every other reason to hate him and say he's crap) because in his 73 HR season the Giants didn't make the playoffs? Get real. Somehow I have a feeling that Frank could go 4-4 with 4 solo shots, and everyone else could strikeout every time--and you'd say he's selfish and "only hits HR's when it doesn't count". GMAFB Edited April 20, 2006 by chitownsportsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 QUOTE(iguchi=dank @ Apr 20, 2006 -> 03:49 AM) Thome 7 HR - team W/L in HR games 6-1 Frank 4 HR - team W/L in HR games 1-3 Yeah, but if you take away the two games that Joe Blanton got raped in, the A's are 1-1 when Frank hits a HR. Duh. I swear, there's some scrub out there who has 4 HR already, and his team is 4-0 when he hits them. It doesn't mean jack s***. Pitching is the name of the game. Maybe you've been too busy saying "Did Sammy hit one????" all of these years, but believe me, those HRs mean a hell of a lot less than you think. The fact that you actually took the time to research such meaningless horses*** is depressing to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 I think your sig says it all Hammerhead: Frank is the greatest "clean" hitter of his generation. Trying to denigrate him with meaningless stats in the face of his OPS numbers from his prime is asinine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iguchi=dank Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ Apr 19, 2006 -> 11:01 PM) Yea, because when Frank hit his HR it tied it up 1-1. I suppose you think Frank should be blamed for the horrible A's pitching in this game as well? Yea, I'm sure Frank was sitting in the dugout thinking, "man, I hope nobody is on base when I get up, because then I'll try harder because I hate playing for the team." Give me a break man. I suppose that Barry Bonds is also crap (aside from every other reason to hate him and say he's crap) because in his 73 HR season the Giants didn't make the playoffs? Get real. Somehow I have a feeling that Frank could go 4-4 with 4 solo shots, and everyone else could strikeout every time--and you'd say he's selfish and "only hits HR's when it doesn't count". GMAFB Chitown. Slurp Frank on your own time. I mentioned i loved frank but its FUNNY that he thinks he's the top s***, and if you watch him he is clearly not the guy for our white sox anymore. I mean, he's gone and he's been an ass for the past 5 years. Greatest hitter in sox history doesn't let me not throw some jabs at him when the guy we chose to replace him is doing something frank hasn't done in years. get over The Hurt. We'll all love him when he's in the HOF. But learn to laugh at his ego sometimes, its good times. And finally if frank went 4-4 with 4 solo shots(and could run the basees without a limp) i would be feeling kinda crappy because we shoulda kept him. dummy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 QUOTE(iguchi=dank @ Apr 20, 2006 -> 09:06 AM) get over The Hurt. You're the one spending time comparing him to Thome and you're telling others to get over him? :rolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iguchi=dank Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 (edited) Well i'm going to gracefully never post about frank if you can never compare/joke around about the topic. I guess never having big hurt pajamas and bedsheets has made me different than most. o well its not like this thread is comparing frank to thome or anything Edited April 20, 2006 by iguchi=dank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 QUOTE(iguchi=dank @ Apr 20, 2006 -> 09:20 AM) Well i'm going to gracefully never post about frank if you can never compare/joke around about the topic. I guess never having big hurt pajamas and bedsheets has made me different than most. o well You can certiantly do whatever your little heart desires. But accusing someone of slurping Frank when they use FACTS to dispute your claims is a pretty clear indicator of who's wearing their jammies in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iguchi=dank Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 I know i'm an idiot for even respoding to you steff, but what stats disputed my claim. seriously. also what claim am i making? that frank isn't that great right now? what are you trying to say really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 QUOTE(iguchi=dank @ Apr 20, 2006 -> 09:33 AM) I know i'm an idiot for even respoding to you steff, but what stats disputed my claim. seriously. also what claim am i making? that frank isn't that great right now? what are you trying to say really. If the shoe fits. Did I say stats...? I'm trying to say you're consumed with s***ting on him for whatever reason yet accuse others of slurping him, and tell them to get over him. What is the obsession with what the hell Frank is doing? Thome is the Sox DH. Who gives a s*** if he hits .100 points better than Frank? Is there some sort of award between the Sox and the A's for this accomplishment?. Anyone with half a brain cell knows it was the right move.. so who are you trying to convince? It's not you specifically. The Frank watch is beyond stupid, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 QUOTE(Steff @ Apr 20, 2006 -> 08:41 AM) If the shoe fits. Did I say stats...? I'm trying to say you're consumed with s***ting on him for whatever reason yet accuse others of slurping him, and tell them to get over him. What is the obsession with what the hell Frank is doing? Thome is the Sox DH. Who gives a s*** if he hits .100 points better than Frank? Is there some sort of award between the Sox and the A's for this accomplishment?. Anyone with half a brain cell knows it was the right move.. so who are you trying to convince? It's not you specifically. The Frank watch is beyond stupid, IMO. I thank Frank for everything he did in a whitesox uniform. However now he is no longer a whitesox. So when he plays against the rest of the AL Central I hope he hits at a 700 clip and beats every team with a dong. When he plays us, I hope he goes 0-15 in the series with 15ks. At this point I am very happy we have Thome, he is providing a presence we havent had in a while in the DH role. This Frank watch is funny. We have people trying to convince themselves one way or another that we made the right decision based on stats. We made the right decision because we needed a left handed power bat to balance our right handed power bats. Have a great Career Frank, but when you play the sox I hope you strikeout everytime and I hope we sweep the As. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iguchi=dank Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 QUOTE(Steff @ Apr 20, 2006 -> 09:41 AM) If the shoe fits. Did I say stats...? I'm trying to say you're consumed with s***ting on him for whatever reason yet accuse others of slurping him, and tell them to get over him. What is the obsession with what the hell Frank is doing? Thome is the Sox DH. Who gives a s*** if he hits .100 points better than Frank? Is there some sort of award between the Sox and the A's for this accomplishment?. Anyone with half a brain cell knows it was the right move.. so who are you trying to convince? It's not you specifically. The Frank watch is beyond stupid, IMO. you said facts, my bad. well it matters that thome hits better because if frank was hitting better than we would have a dh and a centerfielder that we shouldn't have. also if you go back to my 1st post, jesus i was just joking around, read it. and it was my first post about a topic 7 pages long. i am not consumed. but i do care about how former sox do, and i will sometimes post about it. wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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