It would be different if it was Mexico

[Texsox]

http://themonitor.com/SiteProcessor.cfm?Te...ection=Business

 

DETROIT — On a weekend night in March, 12 big rigs from Detroit were lined up on the Canadian side of the Ambassador Bridge, waiting to be searched by inspectors who were on the lookout for a produce truck suspected of carrying drugs.

 

But before the Canadians could scan the trucks, their supervisor received a call from the U.S. company that owns the bridge. The trucks were snarling traffic. And the bridge’s owner wanted traffic cleared quickly, an inspector working that night said.

 

What happened next, according to customs inspectors and security experts, is what routinely happens on the U.S.-Canadian border when security clashes with commerce: Commerce wins.

 

"We stopped the inspection," a Canadian inspector said, and let the trucks pass.

 

Despite fears of terrorism and other security concerns at U.S. ports and border crossings since 9/11, U.S. and Canadian inspectors on the Ambassador Bridge and elsewhere say they are routinely told by supervisors to wave vehicles through checkpoints without scrutiny to satisfy commercial interests.

 

Though government officials in the United States and Canada deny safety is compromised, inspectors say security lapses are a particular problem at the Ambassador Bridge — the busiest northern border crossing, and one of only two along the U.S.-Canadian border that are privately owned.

 

In one practice known as "lane flushing," inspectors at the bridge — owned by the Detroit International Bridge Co. — say supervisors force them to wave through long lines of cars and trucks to ease bridge congestion, without asking even cursory questions of drivers or passengers.

 

More at link. I am certain if this was Mexico we'd be all up in arms. But it's Canada and they will get a pass . . .

[southsider2k5]

Well since we are stirring the pot...

 

April 06, 10:48 a.m.

 

 

MR. PRESIDENT, I'M HEADED TO MEXICO

 

 

 

David M. Bresnahan

April 1, 2006

NewsWithViews.com

 

Dear President Bush:

 

I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family,

and I would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across

the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few

arrangements. I know you can help with this.

 

I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports,

immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the

same way you do here.

 

So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that

I'm on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting

the following:

 

1. Free medical care for my entire family.

 

 

2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might

need, whether I use them or not.

 

 

3. All government forms need to be printed in English.

 

 

4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.

 

 

5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.

 

 

6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the

flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.

 

 

7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and

lunch.

 

 

8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy

access to government services.

 

 

9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any

effort to learn local traffic laws.

 

 

10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the

memo from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all

police officers speak English.

 

11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals

on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not

want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.

 

 

12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes,

and don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws.

 

 

13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice

and never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might

place on the economy.

 

 

 

I know this is an easy request because you already do all these

things for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am

sure that Pres. Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him

nicely.

 

However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail

hunting with your V.P.

 

Thank you so much for your kind help.

 

Sincerely,

 

David M. Bresnahan

[Texsox]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

So we should be more like Mexico? You are dreaming big there.

 

It is very easy to immigrate to Mexico. Basically fill out a form and they will accept as many as we can send. You will need a FM3, basically a green card, and yes they are green. Basically get a passport, and a Photo ID. That is much different than immigrating to the US. So the comparison fails on many levels.

[southsider2k5]

I'm just saying if we are throwing out rhetoric, I got that email this morning.

[Texsox]

I'm just saying if we are throwing out rhetoric, I got that email this morning.

 

It does bring up some valid points. It also highlights how different our two countries are. I was going to say advanced, but there are many that would like us to be more like Mexico. Guilty until proven innocent, one language, easy immigration, no guns, no Capital punishment, state owned petroleum production and distribution, and I could go on.

[FlaSoxxJim]

. . . So the comparison fails on many levels.

 

Not the least of which is national security.

 

Tex, that piece you posted provides a perfect roadmap for terrorists and drug traffickers coming in from Canada. Just make sure you plan to come in on the Ambassador Bridge at the busiest tme of the week and you'll be "lane flushed" right in, no questions asked.

 

SS2k5, as concerned about national security as you seem to be based on other posts, the irrelevant snark you posted in response to Tex seems out of character.

[Texsox]

I think once the terrorism angle is separated from the immigration issue, we may actually move forward. Terrorists will not want to risk death across a desert when they can drive in. They are less likely to carry a WMD across the desert when they can ship it in or build it here.

 

But those that want controlled immigration and more accountability, which I believe is a valid consideration, have used 9/11 and the war on terrorism to start a national debate. Perhaps that was the only way to get this from the backburner to out front where something might actually happen.

 

And Jim, I think I was a bit snarkier than SS my dreaming big sarcasm was possibly out of line.

[FlaSoxxJim]

And Jim, I think I was a bit snarkier than SS  my dreaming big sarcasm was possibly out of line.

 

I dunno. Yours was in green after all, so it *may contain snark*.

 

I appreciate that SS' post was just one of those email forwards of little consequence. But a lot of it is really divorced from reality. Consider:

 

12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes,

and don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws.

 

By "nice job" that must mean a job that pays less than half of what a native gets, bacause that is the situation for Mexican illegals here.

 

 

So what does that work out to for David M. Bresnahan when he makes his big move to Mexico? In a country where most people are making less in real wages now than they did in 1980, with a per capita income that is one-fourth that of the United States, and a current daily minimum wage equivalent of less than $3/day, I bet Mr. Bresnahan is really looking forward to taking care of his family with his new gig that nets him half of that.

[Texsox]

I dunno.  Yours was in green after all, so it *may contain snark*. 

 

I appreciate that SS' post was just one of those email forwards of little consequence.  But a lot of it is really divorced from reality.  Consider:

By "nice job" that must mean a job that pays less than half of what a native gets, bacause that is the situation for Mexican illegals here.

 

 

So what does that work out to for David M. Bresnahan when he makes his big move to Mexico?  In a country where most people are making less in real wages now than they did in 1980, with a per capita income that is one-fourth that of the United States, and a current daily minimum wage equivalent of less than $3/day, I bet Mr. Bresnahan is really looking forward to taking care of his family with his new gig that nets him half of that.

 

It is unfair to compare Mexico and US wages. The employee benefit structures are much different. But there is no doubt that Mexico has killed their middle class a couple times. Once again, it is a country of have and have nots.

[kapkomet]

Mexico is the world's 5th largest economy. So, why is it again that their people are coming here like flies on s*** ILLEGALLY?

 

Oh. Corruption. I almost forgot.

 

Get that crap cleaned up and maybe they would want to stay there. :rollly

[FlaSoxxJim]

It is unfair to compare Mexico and US wages. The employee benefit structures are much different. But there is no doubt that Mexico has killed their middle class a couple times. Once again, it is a country of have and have nots.

 

The point is that if this Bresnahan guy's thrus is that Mexico should be able to do things like the US currently does, then a "good job" for an illegal American in Mexico should earn him half of the going wage of native mexicans by definition.

 

But I completely agree about the economic disparity in Mexico. I just read that the richest 35 families in Mexico are worth as much as the poorest 15 million people.

[Texsox]

Mexico is the world's 5th largest economy.

 

Really? I find that very difficult to believe.

 

US

Japan

Germany

Italy

UK

France

Canada

China

India

 

all would seem to have bigger economies. Where did you pull that list from?

 

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbo...os/mx.html#Econ

CIA Factbook rankings

[Controlled Chaos]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

So we should be more like Mexico?  You are dreaming big there.

 

It is very easy to immigrate to Mexico. Basically fill out a form and they will accept as many as we can send. You will need a FM3, basically a green card, and yes they are green. Basically get a passport, and a Photo ID. That is much different than immigrating to the US. So the comparison fails on many levels.

 

I'm not sure if you're right or rush and I don't have the time to look it up, but if this is at all accurate it doesn't seem like it's 'very easy' to immigrate to mexico. I guess he can be totally making this up, but I doubt it. I don't really ever read the guy. I was just looking for immigration policys to mexico and came across this article.

 

 

 

The following is excerpted from Rush’s transcript quote: “All right, immigration proposals under discussion. Let me add mine to the mix. I want to call this proposal the Limbaugh Laws. …First, if you immigrate to the United States of America, you must speak the native language. You have to be a professional or an investor. [America is] not going to take unskilled workers…There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no special ballots for elections, no government business will be conducted in your native language. Foreigners will not have the right to vote…nor will they ever be allowed to hold political office. According to the Limbaugh Laws, if you're in our country, you cannot be a burden to taxpayers. You are not entitled, ever, to welfare, to food stamps, or other government goodies. You can come if you invest here, but it must be an amount equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage. If you don't know have that amount of money, you can't come and invest. You have to stay home. If you do come and you want to buy land, okay, but we're going to restrict your options. You will not be allowed to buy waterfront property in the United States. That will be reserved for citizens naturally born in this country.”

 

“In fact, as a foreigner, you must relinquish individual rights to property… Another thing. You don't have the right to protest when you come here. You're allowed no demonstrations, you cannot wave a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies, or you get sent home. You're a foreigner. You shut your mouth or you get out, and if you come here illegally, you go straight to jail and we're going to hunt you down 'til we find you.” End of quote.

 

From the transcript: “I can imagine many of you think that the Limbaugh Laws are pretty harsh. I imagine today some of you probably are going, "Yeah! Yeah!" Well, let me tell you this, folks. Every one of the laws I just mentioned are actual laws of Mexico, today. I just read you Mexican immigration law. That's how the Mexican government handles immigrants to their country.”

[Balta1701]

But I completely agree about the economic disparity in Mexico.  I just read that the richest 35 families in Mexico are worth as much as the poorest 15 million people.

Having just checked my calculator...I think you could almost certainly say exactly the same thing about the U.S.

[Texsox]

From the transcript: “I can imagine many of you think that the Limbaugh Laws are pretty harsh. I imagine today some of you probably are going, "Yeah! Yeah!" Well, let me tell you this, folks. Every one of the laws I just mentioned are actual laws of Mexico, today. I just read you Mexican immigration law. That's how the Mexican government handles immigrants to their country.”[/i]

 

 

Most of those are accurate. Foreigners have very limited real estate rights in Mexico. Are you suggesting that should be the policy here? That foreign companies not be allowed to purchase real estate? Perhaps we should consider the relative lifestyles of both countries and believe our laws are better and resulted in ours being the #1 economy in the world. Why would we want to look at a country that clearly is behind us in almost every major area and think their way is better?

 

What I am saying, is if you want to work in Mexico, and I did for 2 years, it is a very simple process. And once you are issued your green card, you may live and work anywhere within their borders.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Having just checked my calculator...I think you could almost certainly say exactly the same thing about the U.S.

I'm sure that is the case. But I don't know that Mexico has extreme outliers like the Walton and Gates, etc. families that skew the numbers as much.

[Controlled Chaos]

Most of those are accurate. Foreigners have very limited real estate rights in Mexico. Are you suggesting that should be the policy here? That foreign companies not be allowed to purchase real estate? Perhaps we should consider the relative lifestyles of both countries and believe our laws are better and resulted in ours being the #1 economy in the world. Why would we want to look at a country that clearly is behind us in almost every major area and think their way is better?

 

What I am saying, is if you want to work in Mexico, and I did for 2 years, it is a very simple process. And once you are issued your green card, you may live and work anywhere within their borders.

 

I wasn't saying we should model our laws after mexicos at all. I dont think that's what rush was saying either. I don't think it said their way was better anywhere either.

 

I'm just saying illegal Mexicans, waving their mexican flags in this country,(due to what I can only assume is pride in their country cause why else to you wave flags) can take a look at the policys of their own homeland when trying to get the US to change it's laws.

 

I know my ancestors didn't come here from Italy waving the Italian Flag and demanding citizenship.

[southsider2k5]

SS2k5, as concerned about national security as you seem to be based on other posts, the irrelevant snark you posted in response to Tex seems out of character.

 

The last line of the initial post brought about the stupid email. The whole point was to show the aburdity of showing half of the story. Of course Canada gets treated differently when it comes to immigration, there aren't 11-12 million Canadians here illegally, and with all of the consequenses that brings about. But we have been down the road of why there are different immigration laws for different countries before, and that got no where, so I figured I would go with the humor route. I guess that didn't work either, which quickly reminded me why I have been avoiding here in general... One of these days, I'll just keep walking...

[Texsox]

I wasn't saying we should model our laws after mexicos at all.  I dont think that's what rush was saying either.  I don't think it said their way was better anywhere either.

 

I'm just saying illegal Mexicans, waving their mexican flags in this country,(due to what I can only assume is pride in their country cause why else to you wave flags) can take a look at the policys of their own homeland when trying to get the US to change it's laws. 

 

I know my ancestors didn't come here from Italy waving the Italian Flag and demanding citizenship.

 

Your ancestors were not judged by Italian laws either. Are you saying that if Mexico had different laws, the illegals would have a valid argument? That if they were campaigning for similar laws from their country, it would somehow be more legitimate? For example with illegals were demanding the end to private gun ownership or capital punishment, it would then be valid because that is the law in their native country?

 

Should the US base their immigration laws concerning a specific country based on that country's laws? If a Country allows free immigration from America, we should allow free immigration to America?

 

SS,

This is about objects, goods, that are entering, not people. I didn't see the connection between allowing freight to pass through unchecked and people. So the 12 million illegals doesn't appear on face value to be a fair comparison of freight policies.

[Controlled Chaos]

Your ancestors were not judged by Italian laws either. Are you saying that if Mexico had different laws, the illegals would have a valid argument? That if they were campaigning for similar laws from their country, it would somehow be more legitimate? For example with illegals were demanding the end to private gun ownership or capital punishment, it would then be valid because that is the law in their native country?

 

Should the US base their immigration laws concerning a specific country based on that country's laws? If a Country allows free immigration from America, we should allow free immigration to America?

 

SS,

This is about objects, goods, that are entering, not people. I didn't see the connection between allowing freight to pass through unchecked and people. So the 12 million illegals doesn't appear on face value to be a fair comparison of freight policies.

 

Dude you have to turn everything into a f***in headache. You said it was easy to immigrate to mexico. I just pointed out an article saying otherwise and you in turn start with your needling... Are you suggesting this? Should we do this? Do you think that? Blah blah blah. Same s*** with you everytime. Someone makes a comment and you start asking all these hypothetical questoins..."what if this...what if that" They answer and you have more "how about if this...are you saying we should do that." They answer and guess what...you have more hypothetical bulls***. It's like you have a posting strategy or something. Get the person to keep having to defend themselves against your ignorant suggestions instead of making their own points. Whatever...Been down that road before. This ain't a Q&A.

 

I was simply f***ing saying that if I was an illegal mexican wondering what the big hooppla was about, I can look at my own country and say ...oh dam..we have our own policies as well. It isn't as easy as just crossing a border here either.

[Texsox]

Dude you have to turn everything into a f***in headache.  You said it was easy to immigrate to mexico.  I just pointed out an article saying otherwise and you in turn start with your needling...  Are you suggesting this?  Should we do this?  Do you think that?  Blah blah blah.  Same s*** with you everytime.  Someone makes a comment and you start asking all these hypothetical questoins..."what if this...what if that"  They answer and you have more "how about if this...are you saying we should do that."  They answer and guess what...you have more hypothetical bulls***.  It's like you have a posting strategy or something.  Get the person to keep having to defend themselves against your ignorant suggestions instead of making their own points.  Whatever...Been down that road before.  This ain't a Q&A.

 

I was simply f***ing saying that if I was an illegal mexican wondering what the big hooppla was about, I can look at my own country and say ...oh dam..we have our own policies as well.  It isn't as easy as just crossing a border here either.

 

What your post showed was it was difficult to own Real Estate in Mexico. Actually damn near impossible. And I agree with that point. My point was it is easy to immigrate and work in Mexico which is what most of the illegals wish to do. So if we break it down and compare apples and apples, applying for a work permit is much easier for an American working in Mexico than a Mexican working in America. I happen to have worked in Mexico for two years so maybe I know something about the subject.

 

Sorry for asking questions, I was trying to understand your point. I guess people who don't want to understand other people's opinions will just say f***ing and bulls*** a few times and think that is a worthwhile discussion. So if just saying f***ing and bulls*** is your posting strategy, well I've been down that road with people before. I learned there wasn't much to learn from those types.

[Controlled Chaos]

What your post showed was it was difficult to own Real Estate in Mexico. Actually damn near impossible. And I agree with that point. My point was it is easy to immigrate and work in Mexico which is what most of the illegals wish to do. So if we break it down and compare apples and apples, applying for a work permit is much easier for an American working in Mexico than a Mexican working in America. I happen to have worked in Mexico for two years so maybe I know something about the subject.

 

Sorry for asking questions, I was trying to understand your point. I guess people who don't want to understand other people's opinions will just say f***ing and bulls*** a few times and think that is a worthwhile discussion. So if just saying f***ing and bulls*** is your posting strategy, well I've been down that road with people before. I learned there wasn't much to learn from those types. 

 

I don't have a strategy, I just post. As for the 'f***ing' and 'bulls***', what can I say...you bring out the best in me. Just to make you feel better though, I understood your point perfectly while using those words.

[NorthSideSox72]

SS2k5, as concerned about national security as you seem to be based on other posts, the irrelevant snark you posted in response to Tex seems out of character.

While SS's article did contain some snark, it is highly relevant, and makes some excellent points. I stand by SS2K5 on this one. No matter your feelings on increasing visas or allowing a migrant/guest worker program (which I am in favor of), there is just no justification for illegal entry into another country. Nothing positive comes of it.

[Texsox]

I don't have a strategy, I just post.  As for the 'f***ing' and 'bulls***', what can I say...you bring out the best in me.  Just to make you feel better though, I understood your point perfectly while using those words.

 

If I think someone is intelligent and articulate I like to ask questions and understand how they reached an opinion. If it seems like an informed opinion, I enjoy studying it and seeing what I can learn from it.

 

I find there is little to be learned from uninformed opinions based on poor information. I am, by nature, a very inquistive person, as you noticed. I am much more interested in other people's opinions.

[Texsox]

While SS's article did contain some snark, it is highly relevant, and makes some excellent points.  I stand by SS2K5 on this one.  No matter your feelings on increasing visas or allowing a migrant/guest worker program (which I am in favor of), there is just no justification for illegal entry into another country.  Nothing positive comes of it.

 

You are correct. This has been a political hot potato that neither party wants to debate. On one hand the majority of these workers are making a contribution to our society, and the other, the growth of Spanish speaking immigrants has been met with resentment in many areas. Being viewed as pro-Mexican immigration is a quick trip out of office.

 

So the politicians have to figure out a way to keep these people in the workforce, yet be seen as anti-illegal immigration. Replaceing these trained workers, with legal, but untrained, is not going to help the economy or our nation.