GOP Backing Away From Tough Immigration

[Texsox]

CNN Link

 

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The top Republicans in both the House and Senate are indicating they don't support language in an immigration bill that would make entering the country illegally a felony.

 

The proposal has drawn the ire of pro-immigrant groups that have staged a wave of protests in recent weeks.

 

The provision making illegal immigration a felony was contained in an immigration reform bill passed by the House in December. But in a joint statement issued Tuesday evening, House Speaker Dennis Hastert of Illinois and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist of Tennessee both indicated they wanted the language dropped.

 

Kudos to Hastert and Frist for taking leadership in creating a policy that actually helps the US and not just playing partisan politics.

[FlaSoxxJim]

A positive development, yes.

[Texsox]

BTW, in the business of politics side of things, imagine how different both sides positions would be if Hispanics voted overwhelmingly for Republicans and not Democrats. Both sides would have some philosophy changes of directions I am certain.

[NorthSideSox72]

BTW, in the business of politics side of things, imagine how different both sides positions would be if Hispanics voted overwhelmingly for Republicans and not Democrats. Both sides would have some philosophy changes of directions I am certain. 

Actually, in the 2004 Prez elections, Hispanics voted for Bush almost as much as for Kerry. Its one of the reasons Bush won. The hispanic population is no longer a gimme for the Dems, which I think is one reason why this issue seems to cut across party lines (yes, there are others of course).

[WilliamTell]

This immigration thing is twisted right now. It's not straight parties, it's a mixture.

[Rex Kickass]

Actually, in the 2004 Prez elections, Hispanics voted for Bush almost as much as for Kerry.  Its one of the reasons Bush won.  The hispanic population is no longer a gimme for the Dems, which I think is one reason why this issue seems to cut across party lines (yes, there are others of course).

But everytime people like Tom Tancredo appear on Fox News or CNN with an R right after his name, the hispanic vote shifts a little more blue every time.

 

2004 would have been a tipping point I think for hispanic politics not being a solid expectation for the Democrats anymore until people like the Minutemen and proposals like the one which DID pass in the House actually start popping out of the woodwork. I think as a result, you're going to see the hispanic vote start to swing back to the Dems - simply because the most vocal people on these issues are Republican or seen as Republican.

[Balta1701]

Just saw this, figured it was interesting and on topic.

 

In 2000, Ali's parents fled Pakistan for Chicago after her father, a devout Shia, was attacked by a group of Taliban thugs who threatened to kill him for his beliefs. Sadia and her brother and sister arrived in 2001. After the attack on the twin towers got hit, it didn't matter that the al Qaeda hijackers were backed by the same brand of Taliban extremists who went after her father in Pakistan....

 

Worried they would be deported like the other Muslims and South Asians being swept up across the country, the Ali family fled to Montreal. They believed the Canadian government would be more receptive to their bid for political asylum. But after three years, the Canadian government punted them back to the U.S.

 

So now they're in New York, having moved to Jackson Heights, Queens, with the help of the immigrant rights group DRUM, or Desis Rising Up and Moving. (Desi, according to the website, is a term South Asians commonly use to identify their heritage.)

 

Sadia and her family say going back to Pakistan now would be a death sentence. So would HR 4437, the Border Protection Antiterrorism and Illegal Immigration Control Act, passed by the House, which calls for the mandatory detention and deportation of illegal aliens and imposes criminal penalties on those (like DRUM) who knowingly help them.

 

The so-called compromise bill passed by the Senate Judiciary Committee on March 27 isn't much better. It also vastly expands the grounds for deportation and enables Homeland Security agents to expel suspected foreigners without a hearing.

 

"I'm just scared, I have no life, I'm left with nothing," said Sadia as the protesters set off for City Hall, crammed on the sidewalks because the feeder march had no permit for the street.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Just saw this, figured it was interesting and on topic.

 

 

WHAA WHAA WHAA.

 

 

People who are here and overstayed their visas, swam across a river, hid in a container on a ship, stowed away in a tractor trailer rig or were beamed down by Scotty are all criminals. I don't care if they are running from a ruthless band of thugs or a schoolyard bully who wants to see em in the yard at recess. They violated U.S. law and should all be expelled.

 

Their actions and the government's unwillingness to do anything about them create an atmosphere of lawlessness in this country, especially in the border regions. People who are illegal aliens should be immediately deported. No hearing, no trial, no nothing. Send them back where they came from. Additionally, if the government had any balls they would move in and close down these "immigrant rights" organizations which are barely disguised fronts for transporting and aiding people who break the law. That goes double for unscrupulous businesses who employ illegals and create the reason for their being here in so doing.

 

Why should people who break the law and come here illegally be given the same rights and protections that people who play by the rules and go through the immigration process?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

CNN Link

Kudos to Hastert and Frist for taking leadership in creating a policy that actually helps the US and not just playing partisan politics.

 

 

Creating a legitimate means for foreginers to come here and do dirty work does help. Allowing for people who broke the law to get by with it and have no consequenses does not.

[mr_genius]

Actually, in the 2004 Prez elections, Hispanics voted for Bush almost as much as for Kerry.  Its one of the reasons Bush won.  The hispanic population is no longer a gimme for the Dems, which I think is one reason why this issue seems to cut across party lines (yes, there are others of course).

 

 

very true

 

the GOP does not want to lose the hispanic vote.

 

if you guys remember, Reagan gave illegals amnesty while President.

[Texsox]

Creating a legitimate means for foreginers to come here and do dirty work does help.  Allowing for people who broke the law to get by with it and have no consequenses does not.

 

Expelling 12,000,000 workers to score votes is short sighted and stupid. Exactly why the GOP will do it.

[mr_genius]

Expelling 12,000,000 workers to score votes is short sighted and stupid. Exactly why the GOP will do it.

 

 

They know there is no way they can expel 12,000,000 illegals. The best policy will probably one in which the illegals pay back-taxes, a hefty fine (hopefully for them and their employer) and some sort of "program" to get them legal status. After that, no more amnesty, i don't care if some berry farmer in Texas wants more illegals to pick berries at $1.50 an hour.

 

we need much better boarder security.

Edited April 12, 2006 by mr_genius

[Texsox]

As far as the employers, most of the illegals have paperwork (forged or stolen) that shows they are legal to work. Would you still fine the employer for being fooled by false paperwork?

[mr_genius]

Would you still fine the employer for being fooled by false paperwork?

 

yes

[Texsox]

yes

 

Seems harsh. Could put some people out of business. Someone shows up with a Drivers license and a social security card, it seems like an employer would have to trust that. I guess they will have to be experts on all 50 state driver's licenses and birth ceriticates from every city. I find it hard to fine the victim of a forgery.

 

I guess the next outcry will be a renewed demand for national ID cards.

[mr_genius]

Seems harsh. Could put some people out of business. Someone shows up with a Drivers license and a social security card, it seems like an employer would have to trust that. I guess they will have to be experts on all 50 state driver's licenses and birth ceriticates from every city.

 

 

 

The employer doesn't have to be an ID expert, we both know this. Run his/her SS number or have some sort of background check on employees before you hire them if you are worried they may be illegal.

[Texsox]

The employer doesn't have to be an ID expert, we both know this.  Run his/her SS number or have some sort of background check on employees before you hire them if you are worried they may be illegal.

 

The problem is the Social Security number usually will seem ok. Employers have made tax payments with the SS# and no problem. Only later is it discovered. If the IRS accepts the payments, the employer should not be held responsible when the employee is found to be undocumented.

 

For these low end manual labor type jobs the turnover is usually so great that spending a lot of money on hiring, background checks, etc. would create a hardship.

 

I guess you could check on every Mexican you hire, but that doesn't seem right.

 

If the employer gathered the required information, and the forms were not obvious fakes, I wouldn't fine the employer. If they accepted an obvious fake, then that would be different.

[mr_genius]

For these low end manual labor type jobs the turnover is usually so great that spending a lot of money on hiring, background checks, etc. would create a hardship.

 

 

 

It's not that expensive to do a background check (aka, check if the individual is legal to work in the United States). It would only be about $15 to check a new employees work status. If an employer were doing large amounts of background checks I'm sure they could use a company that would charge a flat fee for the year or month with unlimited checks.

 

It's an small operating cost, not an extreme hardship.

Edited April 12, 2006 by mr_genius

[Rex Kickass]

Seems harsh. Could put some people out of business. Someone shows up with a Drivers license and a social security card, it seems like an employer would have to trust that. I guess they will have to be experts on all 50 state driver's licenses and birth ceriticates from every city. I find it hard to fine the victim of a forgery.

 

I guess the next outcry will be a renewed demand for national ID cards.

 

They should be fined for employing illegal workers. However, fines would vary based on whether it was intentional. If it is intentional, the fines should be outrageously huge. Enough to shut them down.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Expelling 12,000,000 workers to score votes is short sighted and stupid. Exactly why the GOP will do it.

 

 

Expelling 12 million criminals who are a burden to our social services and contribute FAR less than they take is the only appropriate measure to take.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

As far as the employers, most of the illegals have paperwork (forged or stolen) that shows they are legal to work. Would you still fine the employer for being fooled by false paperwork?

 

 

I wouldn't. In the case where forged paperwork is in play then the criminal illegal alien in question should be tossed in the pokey for fraud.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

They should be fined for employing illegal workers. However, fines would vary based on whether it was intentional. If it is intentional, the fines should be outrageously huge. Enough to shut them down.

 

 

 

^^^^^^^^^^

 

 

DING DING DING!!!!!!!!

 

 

Finally something in this thread I can agree with.

[Balta1701]

Expelling 12 million criminals who are a burden to our social services and contribute FAR less than they take is the only appropriate measure to take.

A few weeks ago, I heard Senator Kennedy pass along an estimate for how much it would cost to actually expel all 11-20 million of these immigrants, in terms of rounding them up, shipping, etc. The number he gave was something like $240 billion. A Center for American Progress study in 2005 estimated the cost at $210 billion over 5 years.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

A few weeks ago, I heard Senator Kennedy pass along an estimate for how much it would cost to actually expel all 11-20 million of these immigrants, in terms of rounding them up, shipping, etc.  The number he gave was something like $240 billion.  A Center for American Progress study in 2005 estimated the cost at $210 billion over 5 years.

 

 

Obviously we can't go out tomorrow, round em up and toss em out. The way to get rid of these people is to arrest them when the opportunity presents itself, make the border airtight and as Rex said, start levying massive fines on employers who are found to be hiring these people. You eliminate their reason for being here in the first place and they will start leaving on their own.

[BigSqwert]

"these people" eh?