GOP Backing Away From Tough Immigration

[Texsox]

We will always need border security.  Be it fence, high tech, or personel.  Believing that Mexicans won't try to come here illegally cause they can get on a guest worker waiting list is a pipe dream.

 

But if no jobs are waiting for them because businesses can hire all the legal workers they need, there will be less of an incentive to sneak across. Currently, if the reports are to be believed, most of the workers have jobs waiting for them.

 

I don't think anyone is saying throw open the border and let anyone across. But spending hundreds of billions of dollars on a 3,000 mile 5 stage fence, with all the electronic surveillance equipment isn't worth it for the problem it solves.

 

Workers need jobs, our companies needed workers, the government's role is to make certain that doesn't happen at any cost? Nope, doesn't work for me.

 

Workers need jobs, our companies needed workers, the government's role is to make certain those workers that enter this country are not criminals, have means of supporting themselves once they are here, disease free, and I'm certain a couple other things I'm forgetting. That works for me.

 

To think that Americans will not rob banks because they could get jobs is a pipe dream also, but we wouldn't put up with barbed wire around all our banks.

 

So say no to the fence and say yes to better port security, better identity verification systems for everyone from employers to creditors, citizenship programs that reward good behavior and hard work. And against most Democrat's opinion also say yes to a National ID card.

[Controlled Chaos]

But if no jobs are waiting for them because businesses can hire all the legal workers they need, there will be less of an incentive to sneak across. Currently, if the reports are to be believed, most of the workers have jobs waiting for them.

 

I don't think anyone is saying throw open the border and let anyone across. But spending hundreds of billions of dollars on a 3,000 mile 5 stage fence, with all the electronic surveillance equipment isn't worth it for the problem it solves.

 

Workers need jobs, our companies needed workers, the government's role is to make certain that doesn't happen at any cost? Nope, doesn't work for me.

 

Workers need jobs, our companies needed workers, the government's role is to make certain those workers that enter this country are not criminals, have means of supporting themselves once they are here, disease free, and I'm certain a couple other things I'm forgetting. That works for me.

 

Free education. Free health care. Why have your baby in Mexico when you can sneak over here and have it in a good hospital and have your child be a US citizen? There will always be incentives to come to the US.

[Texsox]

Free education.  Free health care.  Why have your baby in Mexico when you can sneak over here and have it in a good hospital and have your child be a US citizen?  There will always be incentives to come to the US.

 

I am against that policy. It is crippling hospitals on the border. That, and so many uninsured people. But you don't have to sneak. You can be a student, you can schedule a vacation, you can be on a shopping trip, you can join our military. (Most people don't know you do not have to be a citizen to serve in our military). If you die, you receive immediate citizenship, but not if you just have your legs blown off or something like that.

 

Both countries actually enforce two borders. To allow a free ecnomic exchange, both countries allow access to the border region. For example, you can take a trip about 20 miles into Mexico without any paperwork. Jump across, go to dinner, do some shopping, get a haircut, and then tell the customs or immigration agent you are an American and back you go. It is almost as easy for Mexicans in the US. North of me, about 30 miles is the Falfurrias Checkpoint. There non US Citizens will have to have papers showing they are allowed into the US. Between here and there, Mexican Nationals are legal to shop, visit museums, etc. And if you should happen to have a baby when you are here, instant dual citizenship.

 

But so far initiatives to change that US Law and not have automatic citizenship has stalled.

 

I pray there is always in incentive to come to America. We are the greatest country on this planet. There isn't much of an incentive to move to Tanzania, but let's all hope there is always in incentive to move to the US.

[Texsox]

http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/a/217131.htm?nl=1

 

1 in 15 Californians are illegal 1 in 25 American workers are illegal

 

not certain how legit the research at above links.

[southsider2k5]

I suppose it was inevitable, with the demands, protests, boycotts, and the like that the idiots were going to start to get involved. Some extreme groups are now promoting violence against immigrants.

 

http://www.adl.org/main_Extremism/immigrat...ions=sHeading_1

[Texsox]

I suppose it was inevitable, with the demands, protests, boycotts, and the like that the idiots were going to start to get involved.  Some extreme groups are now promoting violence against immigrants.

 

http://www.adl.org/main_Extremism/immigrat...ions=sHeading_1

 

It's amazing how big a voice fourteen people and a web site can have. :headshake No matter what a person's views are, all decent Americans know this is wrong.

[kapkomet]

Let me boil this down here for everyone.

 

From the "protests" on Monday, to the "spanish Star Spangled Banner", to the pure outright saying "screw off" to our laws...

 

See, 25 years ago, coming to America meant something. They wanted to become AMERICANS. Today, these people want to come here to become WORKERS. See the difference? They flaunt the "illegal" part, they taunt us with it, and basically it's a slap in the face to every LEGAL person here. Yet, I'll see this stupid little post defending these people. What part of this can you possibly defend? So these people pick our vegetables and shovel our s*** (or insert whatever jobs Americans supposedly won't do). It used to mean something to be an American. Now, sadly, it doesn't.

 

Would these people be willing to die for our country? No... they just want the $$$$$$$. That's my problem with this whole thing.

[Controlled Chaos]

Let me boil this down here for everyone.

 

From the "protests" on Monday, to the "spanish Star Spangled Banner", to the pure outright saying "screw off" to our laws...

 

See, 25 years ago, coming to America meant something.  They wanted to become AMERICANS.  Today, these people want to come here to become WORKERS.  See the difference?  They flaunt the "illegal" part, they taunt us with it, and basically it's a slap in the face to every LEGAL person here.  Yet, I'll see this stupid little post defending these people.  What part of this can you possibly defend?  So these people pick our vegetables and shovel our s*** (or insert whatever jobs Americans supposedly won't do).  It used to mean something to be an American.  Now, sadly, it doesn't.

 

Would these people be willing to die for our country?  No... they just want the $$$$$$$.  That's my problem with this whole thing.

 

 

My wifes grandma came over from Italy in 1962. She left her husband and three kids in Italy to come to America for a better life. They couldn't all come....there was a process they followed back then. I don't know all the details, but I know a friend of a friend had to sponsor her and she had to prove she had a job lined up here. She was a seamstress so her friend had set something up for her. Her husband was able to join her after a few months of her maintaining a steady income. Then a year later they were able to have their kids(my wifes mom) come over. One of the kids is slightly retarded and he was not able to come because of that....then I guess that rule changed about a year after that and he was able to come over.

 

That was a lot of sacrificing they did to come here the right way. My wifes father is also from Italy...He just became a citizen about 10 years ago. In talking to him he is very proud to be an American. He said he doesn't consider himself an Italian American anymore...he is an American now. They are hardworkers that came here the right way to live the American dream. Her dad is a custom woodworker. Her grandpa worked with granite and marble. Her grandma, a seamstress, who still works for a cleaners at 78 years old. They are hardworking immmigrants too and they came over the right way and proud to be here.

 

I'm not saying the illegal immigrants don't sacrifice..I know they sacrifice greatly, sometimes with their lives. However, there are rules to be followed. You don't come to this country and make demands. You can't go into a bank and demand money. You can't go up to a building and demand a job. You can't go to McDonalds and demand food. Why is it that these people believe they can demand citizneship. That is not the way. Don't rewrite the star spangled banner and sing it in spanish to help them understand what it is to be an American. Start by telling them we have a process here....as does every coutnry including their homeland. The process has to be followed or you get deported.

 

I heard an alderman on the news here last night saying...there were rumors among the mexican community that the police were going to arrest illegals at the protests. He wanted to assure them that will not happen. You will NOT be arrested he said. So that is where we are now. You can violate our countrys laws, but we WILL NOT arrest you for it.

Edited April 28, 2006 by Controlled Chaos

[Soxbadger]

Protests are very American. The Bill of Rights, which is the single greatest American idea has protesting included in the First Amendment, the most sacred of all Amendments.

 

Creating a spanish version of the National Anthem? So what, it would be like getting in a hissy fit that a Sox game was also being shown with SAP. OMG a Sox game being announced in spanish?! Its a song, and if Mexican's want to sing our song in Spanish, then let them. They are still singing the American National Anthem, they are still showing reverence to our country.

 

Are they willing to die for our country? I dont know, I would expect that if they were let into our country as citizens, and felt that this was their country that they would fight for it just as any other American would. As for they are coming over for only "$" that was the case of many immigrants. Well also because they were starving, being persecuted, etc. They all came to America, for something better.

 

I wish the American govt would just allow more immigration, which would solve the problem. Most immigrants would prefer to come over legally.

[kapkomet]

Protests are very American. The Bill of Rights, which is the single greatest American idea has protesting included in the First Amendment, the most sacred of all Amendments.

 

Creating a spanish version of the National Anthem? So what, it would be like getting in a hissy fit that a Sox game was also being shown with SAP. OMG a Sox game being announced in spanish?! Its a song, and if Mexican's want to sing our song in Spanish, then let them. They are still singing the American National Anthem, they are still showing reverence to our country.

 

Are they willing to die for our country? I dont know, I would expect that if they were let into our country as citizens, and felt that this was their country that they would fight for it just as any other American would. As for they are coming over for only "$" that was the case of many immigrants. Well also because they were starving, being persecuted, etc. They all came to America, for something better.

 

I wish the American govt would just allow more immigration, which would solve the problem. Most immigrants would prefer to come over legally.

It always seems to escape folks like you - they are here ILLEGALLY. And you all say "so what"? I just think that's a slap in the face to those who did it the right way, which is all of my ancestors, and yours as well.

 

I understand that they are here to "better" their life. I also understand keeping heritage and culture. But contrary to someone else posted in this thread, they *ARE* shoving this down our throats - which is my beef. I love the Bill of Rights. BUT IT DOESN'T APPLY TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE ILLEGALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

But, as usual, that fact seems to escape most.

 

I do agree, 100%, that most probably do want to come here legally. And I hope a mechanism ends up being put in place for that. But it doesn't change the fact of the laws today.

Edited April 28, 2006 by kapkomet

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Protests are very American. The Bill of Rights, which is the single greatest American idea has protesting included in the First Amendment, the most sacred of all Amendments.

 

Creating a spanish version of the National Anthem? So what, it would be like getting in a hissy fit that a Sox game was also being shown with SAP. OMG a Sox game being announced in spanish?! Its a song, and if Mexican's want to sing our song in Spanish, then let them. They are still singing the American National Anthem, they are still showing reverence to our country.

 

Are they willing to die for our country? I dont know, I would expect that if they were let into our country as citizens, and felt that this was their country that they would fight for it just as any other American would. As for they are coming over for only "$" that was the case of many immigrants. Well also because they were starving, being persecuted, etc. They all came to America, for something better.

 

I wish the American govt would just allow more immigration, which would solve the problem. Most immigrants would prefer to come over legally.

 

 

And I like how that Spanish "version" is causing controversy when the idea was from a British music producer, Wyclef Jean is in it, and he hardly looks Hispanic, and most of the artists are Cuban and Puerto-Rican...It's just a ploy to make money, folks, and it wasn't something brought about by the true groups and organizers of these protests...

 

 

Interesting how there desire for being American citizens is being questioned when thats exactly what they're asking for...

[Rex Kickass]

There is no official language in the United States of America.

 

Author's note: This post will follow every post complaining about a spanish rendition of our national anthem.

[kapkomet]

There is no official language in the United States of America.

 

Author's note: This post will follow every post complaining about a spanish rendition of our national anthem.

Go to France and sing the anthem in English and see what response you get.

 

Why is there so much f***ing sympathy for WILLING law breakers?

 

I don't get it.

 

Remember, I said it's not about coming here, it's about being LEGAL.

[Balta1701]

Go to France and sing the anthem in English and see what response you get.

 

Why is there so much f***ing sympathy for WILLING law breakers?

 

I don't get it.

 

Remember, I said it's not about coming here, it's about being LEGAL.

The real key difference here is in whether or not the laws are just. In this case, the U.S. immigration laws clearly are not. There are seemingly 10+ million positions that were available in this country for workers which our immigration system was unable to fill. You create a legit system for allowing workers into this country to fill those jobs, such that the demand for illegals (aside from in slave labor) actually does go down, and you don't have this problem, and I have vastly less sympathy for these folks.

 

These folks are here because of our laws. We have this problem because of stupid, poorly designed laws that were probably originally written by a bunch of racists. Fix that problem and then you can watch my sympathy dry up.

[Soxfest]

Middle America will show a backlash to protest marches on Monday.............great message ..........children skip school, work also. I am growing tired of this and a majority of American's are also.

[Rex Kickass]

Go to France and sing the anthem in English and see what response you get.

 

Why is there so much f***ing sympathy for WILLING law breakers?

 

I don't get it.

 

Remember, I said it's not about coming here, it's about being LEGAL.

 

There is an official language in France. Be pissed off that they're illegal. Don't be pissed off that they are singing the national anthem in Spanish. That's just stupid.

[kapkomet]

I'm not necessarily pissed off about that, per se, but I do think it's an insult.

 

Being in Dallas, we have a very large population of LEGALS and ILLEGALS here. Most of the legals are pissed about it. I find that interesting. They say it's a slap to what they worked so hard to achieve. Funny how they're offended, but we shouldn't be.

[southsideirish71]

I'm not necessarily pissed off about that, per se, but I do think it's an insult.

 

Being in Dallas, we have a very large population of LEGALS and ILLEGALS here.  Most of the legals are pissed about it.  I find that interesting.  They say it's a slap to what they worked so hard to achieve.  Funny how they're offended, but we shouldn't be.

 

Here you go again in Texas.

 

In Houston they get an MLS soccer team. They name it Houston 1836 which is a European like naming of a local soccer team. However they are forced to change the name, after making uniforms, marketing ideas. Why, because the local mexican american community is offended at the name 1836 because that is when the mexican army was defeated. This is the same as people getting offended if a team was named 1776 because the English were kicked out.

 

To some, 1836 might mean Texas independence. To others, it was the defeat of the Mexican army at San Jacinto and thus loss of some Mexican territory. Harris County Commissioner Sylvia Garcia says 1836 might be sensitive to members of the Hispanic community and more.

 

In fact, it was Commissioner Garcia’s office that got the ball rolling after Hispanic leaders complained about the name.

 

The name is meant to commemorate the year Houston was founded. But many Latinos in town said the date carries an "anti-Mexican sentiment," as it is also the year Texas gained its independence from Mexico. The famous battle was fought at the Alamo and Gen. Antonio López de Santa Anna's Mexican army was defeated by Gen. Sam Houston in the Battle of San Jacinto.

 

1836 to change name

Edited April 29, 2006 by southsideirish71

[Mplssoxfan]

Here you go again in Texas. 

 

In Houston they get an MLS soccer team.  They name it Houston 1836 which is a European like naming of a local soccer team.  However they are forced to change the name, after making uniforms, marketing ideas.  Why, because the local mexican american community is offended at the name 1836 because that is when the mexican army was defeated.  This is the same as people getting offended if a team was named 1776 because the English were kicked out. 

1836 to change name

 

Of course, for the Houston MLS franchise to be successful, they will have to attract many Mexican-Americans to the matches. Offending them probably isn't the best way to do that.

[kapkomet]

Here you go again in Texas. 

 

In Houston they get an MLS soccer team.  They name it Houston 1836 which is a European like naming of a local soccer team.  However they are forced to change the name, after making uniforms, marketing ideas.  Why, because the local mexican american community is offended at the name 1836 because that is when the mexican army was defeated.  This is the same as people getting offended if a team was named 1776 because the English were kicked out. 

1836 to change name

You know, if the Mexican-Americans have a problem with it, there probably is a reason. Some of them I have talked to find all of this ridiculous... including the 'walkout' on Monday.

[southsider2k5]

The real key difference here is in whether or not the laws are just.  In this case, the U.S. immigration laws clearly are not.  There are seemingly 10+ million positions that were available in this country for workers which our immigration system was unable to fill.  You create a legit system for allowing workers into this country to fill those jobs, such that the demand for illegals (aside from in slave labor) actually does go down, and you don't have this problem, and I have vastly less sympathy for these folks.

 

These folks are here because of our laws.  We have this problem because of stupid, poorly designed laws that were probably originally written by a bunch of racists.  Fix that problem and then you can watch my sympathy dry up.

 

Who gave them the right to decide which laws were just and which ones weren't? Isn't that what we have courts and judges for? Also don't forget one of the main thrusts of the anti-war sentiment in Iraq is that the Bush admin decided that the Iraqi admin wasn't just and since no one else was going to do anything about it, they would. Under the logic here, Bush and company were perfectly justified in attacking someone/thing that they felt was unjust, simply because they felt is was unjust.

 

Remember we have laws for a reason, and if people just start deciding which laws are "just" and which ones aren't things turn into anarchy.

[Controlled Chaos]

Protests are very American. The Bill of Rights, which is the single greatest American idea has protesting included in the First Amendment, the most sacred of all Amendments.

 

Creating a spanish version of the National Anthem? So what, it would be like getting in a hissy fit that a Sox game was also being shown with SAP. OMG a Sox game being announced in spanish?! Its a song, and if Mexican's want to sing our song in Spanish, then let them. They are still singing the American National Anthem, they are still showing reverence to our country.

 

Are they willing to die for our country? I dont know, I would expect that if they were let into our country as citizens, and felt that this was their country that they would fight for it just as any other American would. As for they are coming over for only "$" that was the case of many immigrants. Well also because they were starving, being persecuted, etc. They all came to America, for something better.

 

I wish the American govt would just allow more immigration, which would solve the problem. Most immigrants would prefer to come over legally.

 

You equate the National Anthem with a sox game boradcast in SAP?? Are you kidding me? Maybe we should change the flag? Should we add an eagle or perhaps some green to our flag? If Mexicans wanted to change the flag would that be ok? It's just a flag...I mean we'll still call it the American flag......or maybe not.

[Rex Kickass]

For everyone on this thread that seems to have an appreciation for the intolerance that other countries have - by all means feel free to become Mexican or French.

 

Seriously, it seems the same people get pissed off about intolerance aimed at Americans in other countries but when it comes right down to it, they seem to be more than willing to have the same intolerance for immigrants here. And I just don't see how you can support and oppose the same thing depending on where you are physically located.

[kapkomet]

I'm not aiming this at any one specific person, but in general.

 

It is PATHETIC what the political correctness assholes have done in this country.

 

Cry "Bill of Rights" to ILLEGAL immagrants. Oh wait, they're not citizens.

 

Cry "let them do what they want, they're not hurting anything". Oh wait, they broke our laws.

 

Cry "George W. Bush is breaking the laws". Oh wait, let's GET THAT f***ER - he's not following the letter of the law! But it's ok, illegal immagrants... not the same thing, it's about "justice".

 

Cry "no blood for oil" (circa 1991). Oh wait, let's scream like little bratty kids when gas hits $3.00 a gallon, and wonder why our troops are wherever they are today.

 

Cry "$100 for Americans for these high gas prices". Oh wait, that's a political BRIBE. STFU, Congressman.

 

Cry "We won't stand for price gouging" - President Bush. Oh wait, you pandering bastard, don't incentivize anyone to do anything about it.

 

The hypocracy of people is ASTOUNDING to me.

 

This immagration issue is nothing but a bunch of posturing, and people who look the other way are part of the problem. All in the name of "just" causes. Screw that. Find a way to make it legal and actually grow some balls and do something about the REAL problem, fine!

Edited April 29, 2006 by kapkomet

[Rex Kickass]

Kap, I agree with you 100%. I just don't necessarily know that deportation is the answer to hold the people who have illegally crossed over accountable. There is nothing saying that they have to be sent back. And trying to send back 12 million people would be well, difficult to say the least.

 

I'm all for fixing our broken immigration laws that punish the immigrant and ignores the people bringing them in when it should be punishing them both.

 

Set up a from this day forward on proposition. You hire illegals: we shut you down. You come over illegally: You get sent back. I'm all for that kind of policy. But the question remains... what to do with the millions here? I don't support a blanket amnesty with no penalty. There should be SOME penalty for breaking the law. But there should also be some venue for these illegal residents to get the legal ability to stay here - be it applying for a green card and paying a fine of several hundred to a couple thousand dollars, or requiring 500 hours community service, or something else that allows these people to be put on a path to contribute to our society in a positive way.

 

This is a situation where we can have our cake and eat it too. This is a situation where we can create laws that work and at the same time hold those who took advantage of a bad situation responsible. But both sides have to budge from their positions. Both the asshole minutemen and the asshole immigrants rights people.