Contreras and Contracts

[Wedge]

Easy Mike North.  It's not like Contreras is putting up these numbers for the Royals.  The country, sportswriters residing on the East coast included, saw the Sox ride Contreras to a WS title last year.  If he can continue putting up the numbers he's put up since last August, he'll be in as good of contention as anyone for a Cy Young.

 

I know everyone saw us ride Contreras to the WS last year, I'm just concerned that they've already forgotten it. I was listening to Dan Patrick on my drive back to school yesterday and him and Kruk and they both have Schilling/Beckett labeled as the best 1-2 combo in MLB (they even mentioned the White Sox staff as being "deep" but I was disappointed they didn't think that the Contreras/Buehrle duo compares). I guess we'll just have to wait and see how the season plays out. I'd just be concerned that if all things end up equal or even close to equal that one of those guys would get the nod over Contreras. Also, please don't give away my secret identity to anyone else!

[SpringfieldFan]

Easy Mike North.  It's not like Contreras is putting up these numbers for the Royals.  The country, sportswriters residing on the East coast included, saw the Sox ride Contreras to a WS title last year.  If he can continue putting up the numbers he's put up since last August, he'll be in as good of contention as anyone for a Cy Young.

 

After that WS performance, and with his start, the Cy Young is his to lose.

 

SFF

[Soxfest]

Agent is wooooooooo :sleep

[hi8is]

Did you say that in Spanish with a heavy Cuban accent?

I'm sure he can understand simple english

[Gregory Pratt]

Cool story.  Count's been nothing but good for us, and he definitely could've raked it in big time outside of Chicago.  It's really nice to hear that players want to play/stay here now.

 

Players have wanted to stay here before! Robin Ventura wanted a no-trade clause because, quote, "I don't want to sign here to get sent somewhere else."

 

I mean, I don't think you were saying that players have never wanted, or often don't want, to stay here. I just wanted an excuse to tell a cool Robin Ventura story!

[watchtower41]

EL TITAN DE BRONZE!

 

Said it once, I'll say it again, he will win 20 with us this year.

 

Noob Saibot wins!!! OUTSTANDING.

Edited April 18, 2006 by watchtower41

[Damen]

I know everyone saw us ride Contreras to the WS last year, I'm just concerned that they've already forgotten it. I was listening to Dan Patrick on my drive back to school yesterday and him and Kruk and they both have Schilling/Beckett labeled as the best 1-2 combo in MLB (they even mentioned the White Sox staff as being "deep" but I was disappointed they didn't think that the Contreras/Buehrle duo compares). I guess we'll just have to wait and see how the season plays out. I'd just be concerned that if all things end up equal or even close to equal that one of those guys would get the nod over Contreras. Also, please don't give away my secret identity to anyone else!

 

If, at the end of the year, Contreras has the best stats of the Cy Young contenders, he'll win.

[Felix]

If, at the end of the year, Contreras has the best stats of the Cy Young contenders, he'll win.

Far from being true. Look at last year with Colon. There were at least 3 other pitchers who should have won it instead of him (Rivera, Buehrle, Santana).

[watchtower41]

Far from being true.  Look at last year with Colon.  There were at least 3 other pitchers who should have won it instead of him (Rivera, Buehrle, Santana).

 

 

 

I love Buehrle as much as anybody, but he deserved no piece of last year's Cy Young. He just did not have it down the stretch, October on the other hand, TOASTY.

[Felix]

Cy Youngs are determined by performance throughout the year, not in a few months. And Colon had a 4.91 ERA in September last year, and was crap in the postseason (before being hurt).

[Damen]

Far from being true.  Look at last year with Colon.  There were at least 3 other pitchers who should have won it instead of him (Rivera, Buehrle, Santana).

 

 

If East Coast bias played a factor, wouldn't Rivera have been a shoe-in? But you're right in that Cy Young voters overvalue wins, which hurt Buehrle and Santana playing on weak offensive teams. So I'll revise my statement to, if Contreras gets 20+ wins, and has the best stats, he'll win.

[Felix]

If East Coast bias played a factor, wouldn't Rivera have been a shoe-in?  But you're right in that Cy Young voters overvalue wins, which hurt Buehrle and Santana playing on weak offensive teams.  So I'll revise my statement to, if Contreras gets 20+ wins, and has the best stats, he'll win.

Well, I wasn't saying that east coast bias would stop Count from winning, I was just saying that the player with the best stats doesn't always win the award.

[Damen]

Well, I wasn't saying that east coast bias would stop Count from winning, I was just saying that the player with the best stats doesn't always win the award.

 

Right, I know. But that was my original point.

[WHarris1]

I Jose

[That funky motion]

South Side Sox put this together.

 

IP H R ER HR BB K ERA K/BB

Post 7/05 100 79 26 21 4 23 73 1.89 3.17

Pre 8/05 367 329 209 194 55 170 314 4.76 1.85

 

Unbelievable. He reminds me of the Green Mile guy. Going to win you 20 games,Boss.

[aboz56]

I believe a kid named Jason Gage called a Cy Young this year for Jose Contreras this spring.

 

Wait, do I have that name right?

[Chisoxfn]

Far from being true.  Look at last year with Colon.  There were at least 3 other pitchers who should have won it instead of him (Rivera, Buehrle, Santana).

Colon flat out deserved it.

[JoshPR]

he does have a big heart and a soft spot... such a great person....

 

the day after a spring training game in 2005 in which he had given up 6 runs in 4 IP.... i told him, "you threw the ball great yesterday Jose, dont worry... your going to do great this year"

 

the way he looked at me was somewhat shocked and somewhat touched. what i said truly effected him. it was probably unreal for him to go out there and make a dozen or so mistakes and then have a fan tell him he threw the ball well... the last spring training he had in 2004 with the yankees, people were probably hostile with him.

 

its one of my fondest recent memories.

 

You Sure he understood You?

[Chisoxfn]

I believe a kid named Jason Gage called a Cy Young this year for Jose Contreras this spring.

 

Wait, do I have that name right?

[SoxAce]

Colon flat out deserved it.

 

Now I wouldn't say that Jas. And I'm surprised Felix that you had Buerhle on that list. Why not Garland? He had a career year. Not saying Buehrle is undeserving as well, but I'm just stating don't count out what Garland did. As a matter of fact, I remember a poster here who compared Garland and Santanas' stats to Colons and that Colon really shouldn't had gotten it.

 

Garland's Line

W-18 L-10 ERA-3.50 G-32 GS-32 CG-3 SHO-3 IP-221.0 H-212 R-93 ER-86 HR-26 BB-47 SO-115

 

Colon's Line

W-21 L-8 ERA-3.48 G-33 GS-33 CG-2 SHO-0 IP-222.2 H-215 R-93 ER-86 HR-26 BB-43 SO-157

 

Santana's Line

W-16 L-7 ERA-2.87 G-33 GS-33 CG-3 SHO-2 IP-231.2 H-180 R-77 ER-74 HR-22 BB-45 SO-238

 

And to mind you, Garland did miss a start, who knows how he would had done but I can bet you his line would had been better than Colons if we would started another game plus the year he had last season. You can make a case for Garland or Santana, but all that aside, Santana DID get robbed IMO, and this is evident.

Edited April 18, 2006 by SoxAce

[Chisoxfn]

Now I wouldn't say that Jas. And I'm surprised Felix that you had Buerhle on that list. Why not Garland? He had a career year. Not saying Buehrle is undeserving as well, but I'm just stating don't count out what Garland did. As a matter of fact, I remember a poster here who compared Garland and Santanas' stats to Colons and that Colon really shouldn't had gotten it.

 

Garland's Line

W-18 L-10 ERA-3.50 G-32 GS-32 CG-3 SHO-3 IP-221.0 H-212 R-93 ER-86 HR-26 BB-47 SO-115

 

Colon's Line

W-21 L-8 ERA-3.48 G-33 GS-33 CG-2 SHO-0 IP-222.2 H-215 R-93 ER-86 HR-26 BB-43 SO-157

 

Santana's Line

W-16 L-7 ERA-2.87 G-33 GS-33 CG-3 SHO-2 IP-231.2 H-180 R-77 ER-74 HR-22 BB-45 SO-238

 

And to mind you, Garland did miss a start, who knows how he would had done but I can bet you his line would had been better than Colons if we would started another game plus the year he had last season. You can make a case for Garland or Santana, but all that aside, Santana DID get robbed IMO, and this is evident.

I can buy the Santana argument, but Garland's line was close to Colon's, only one difference, Colon was the ace of the Angels and that carries some weight to voters.

 

In terms of Santana, the reality of it is, while people can call wins fluke or whatever they want, they do matter in the Cy Young race and 5 wins is a rather large difference.

[Wedge]

I can buy the Santana argument, but Garland's line was close to Colon's, only one difference, Colon was the ace of the Angels and that carries some weight to voters. 

 

In terms of Santana, the reality of it is, while people can call wins fluke or whatever they want, they do matter in the Cy Young race and 5 wins is a rather large difference.

 

Why should it matter if you're the ace or the "5th starter"? It's a single season award, not a career award. If you have to be the ace of your team to win it, then it's no longer a seasonal award.

[Chisoxfn]

Why should it matter if you're the ace or the "5th starter"? It's a single season award, not a career award. If you have to be the ace of your team to win it, then it's no longer a seasonal award.

Because people are going to give credit to the guy that faces other teams aces more so. The media is also going to give credit to the guy that goes out and stops the losing streaks when necessary.

 

The definition of an ace and a 5th starter is different. I like Garland more than about every poster on this site (aside from Tru and Murcie) yet he wasn't getting that award over Colon (not if I was voting).

 

Garland is better than a 5th starter though and would be an ace on many teams. I'm not counting him out because of that, but when a race is close I'm going to look at things like that (ie who has the pressure on him to succeed in big games, who does the team look at to be the stopper, did he do that job, etc).

[Felix]

Now I wouldn't say that Jas. And I'm surprised Felix that you had Buerhle on that list. Why not Garland? He had a career year. Not saying Buehrle is undeserving as well, but I'm just stating don't count out what Garland did. As a matter of fact, I remember a poster here who compared Garland and Santanas' stats to Colons and that Colon really shouldn't had gotten it.

 

Garland's Line

W-18 L-10 ERA-3.50 G-32 GS-32 CG-3 SHO-3 IP-221.0 H-212 R-93 ER-86 HR-26 BB-47 SO-115

 

Colon's Line

W-21 L-8 ERA-3.48 G-33 GS-33 CG-2 SHO-0 IP-222.2 H-215 R-93 ER-86 HR-26 BB-43 SO-157

 

Santana's Line

W-16 L-7 ERA-2.87 G-33 GS-33 CG-3 SHO-2 IP-231.2 H-180 R-77 ER-74 HR-22 BB-45 SO-238

 

And to mind you, Garland did miss a start, who knows how he would had done but I can bet you his line would had been better than Colons if we would started another game plus the year he had last season. You can make a case for Garland or Santana, but all that aside, Santana DID get robbed IMO, and this is evident.

Colon had more wins, a lower ERA, more games started (although its basically a wash), more IP (although its basically a wash), less walks, and more strikeouts than Garland.

 

Buehrle had a lower ERA, more IP, less HR, less walks, nearly the same amount of K's than Colon.

 

Thats why I included Buehrle and not Garland. Buehrle was the better starter.