Chicago Cubs and Sox Fan

[Felix]

The term "fan" is derived from the term fanatic (click on the word to see its definition). Notice the definition specifically says a cause, not several causes, some of which can be against one another. How, therefore, can one be a "fan" (as defined above) of two teams who, in general, dislike each other and don't want to see the other succeed? Sounds like the exact opposite of a "fan" to me.

They are in two different leagues. I'm a White Sox fan in the AL, and a Cubs fan in the NL. If the two teams play each other, I'm rooting for the Sox by far, but if the Cubs are playing the Marlins (or any other NL/AL team thats not the Sox), I'll root for them. I follow the White Sox much more than the Cubs, but I do root for the Cubs when I watch them.

 

One big difference is the Sox and Cubs have about 5 generations of rivalry to fall back on with them having both been original league teams.  The Mets didn't show up on the scene until the 60's (1964 I believe) and it is hard to build the same kind of rivalry.  You can bet that if the Dodgers or Giants still were in NY those rivalries would be as intense and spiteful as the Sox/Cubs.  Realize that Chicago is the only place that has had the same two baseball teams for all 105 years of MLBs official exsistance, no one else can say that... not even close.

Excellent point.

 

What gives anybody the 'authority' to decide who is or isn't a fan?  People can enjoy the game of baseball in any way they see fit.  Someone can be a die hard Soxfan and still mildly pull for the Cubs, Cardinals or whoever.  I think this concept of making rules about or defining what is being a fan is garbage.  Fans achieve there own level of fandom based on their interest level, and thousands of other factors that are unique to any particular person, like time availabilty (to actively follow the team), location, financial matters, etc.  But to criticize someone because they are a different type of fan as you, or to call them a non-fan, is ridiculous.  In fact, it's snobbish.

Excellent post. I think thats the same deal with traditions at ballparks as well (such as what you put on your food)

Edited April 26, 2006 by Felix

[Dam8610]

I guess I'm the only one that thinks a fan can only root for one team.

[Rex Kickass]

Excellent post.  I think thats the same deal with traditions at ballparks as well (such as what you put on your food)

 

I agree with you completely, as long as you put mayo on your fries. Otherwise, you're just ignorant to the finer things in life.

[fathom]

I guess I'm the only one that thinks a fan can only root for one team.

 

I second this claim.

[Drew]

The only team I really hate is the Yankees.

 

By no means am I a Cub fan but in 2003 I would have rather seen them in the Series instead of the Marlins. But as long as the Yankees lost, it was all right.

 

I grew up watching a lot of Cub games because they were on WGN when I got home from school, not because I was necessarily a Cub fan (the Dodgers are the only NL team I even casually follow) but because I loved baseball and my parents didn't feel like springing for SportsVision. I'd been going to Sox games my entire life and an occasional Cub game here or there, but Wrigley just wasn't quite as special as the trips down the Dan Ryan to old whitewashed Comiskey.

 

Now, most Cub fans can be a little much to take...or at least take seriously. I was at the Dodger game last week when Rafael Furcal ran into Derrek Lee, a game that was a very mediocre showing from both teams, and from the banter in the parking lot you'd think they clinched the NL pennant that night. And when the Cubs come to town, it may as well be a home game for them because of how many fans come out of the woodwork.

 

Never mind you're minus your five-tool All-Star, you won a game that was given to you on a silver platter. And to think they called the Red Sox idiots...

Edited April 26, 2006 by Drew

[Felix]

The only team I really hate is the Yankees.

Exactly, same here (the Mets are trying to be hated too, but we'll see)

[LVSoxFan]

The only team I really hate is the Yankees.

 

By no means am I a Cub fan but in 2003 I would have rather seen them in the Series instead of the Marlins. But as long as the Yankees lost, it was all right.

 

I grew up watching a lot of Cub games because they were on WGN when I got home from school, not because I was necessarily a Cub fan (the Dodgers are the only NL team I even casually follow) but because I loved baseball and my parents didn't feel like springing for SportsVision. I'd been going to Sox games my entire life and an occasional Cub game here or there, but Wrigley just wasn't quite as special as the trips down the Dan Ryan to old whitewashed Comiskey.

 

Now, most Cub fans can be a little much to take...or at least take seriously. I was at the Dodger game last week when Rafael Furcal ran into Derrek Lee, a game that was a very mediocre showing from both teams, and from the banter in the parking lot you'd think they clinched the NL pennant that night. And when the Cubs come to town, it may as well be a home game for them because of how many fans come out of the woodwork.

 

Never mind you're minus your five-tool All-Star, you won a game that was given to you on a silver platter. And to think they called the Red Sox idiots...

 

 

I like this post. You're spot-on about a lot of things. I too grew up watching the Cubs and was a fan as a child (back in those Jack Brickhouse days) but the first time I went to Comiskey I was instantly converted. There was something so exotic and foreign about the Sox and their park (to a kid who grew up in the north suburbs). Wrigley always felt like a garden--albeit a very nice one--with a perpetually s***ty team that seemed to sort of exist so that games could be held. But the Sox never seemed like they were kidding around.

 

It's not the team I hate so much as their fans. Granted we have our share of idiots as well, but there is just something so irritating about them and their zealotry and their... well, their continued support of failure that I find nauseating. As I've always said, if the Sox suck, we don't go. I think Jerry finally got the message.

 

The Tribune Co. will never get that message because Wrigley will always sell out, no matter how horrible they are. To sum it up: then, in light of this, I'm supposed to feel their pain when they blow another year. Pfft. No thanks.

 

I'm not a Sox fan because I'm a Cub-hater--I just happen to hate the Cubs and their fans. However, when they got close in '03 I cheered them on; I'm not that jaded where I'm going to wish for them to fail just because we're not in it. In the end it's a Chicago team. And now we will always have the bragging rights to say we did it first, which is priceless.

 

However, during the series last year I wrote a letter to the editor of the Sun-Times about the hardship of being a North Side Sox fan, which got printed. I mentioned that I'm proud of the Sox but don't spend a lot of time rubbing it in the faces of the Cubs fans.

 

The letter after mine? From a Cubs fan, stating that he was going to cheer against the Sox the whole time, that the Cubs fans would never support us, that we're not a real Chicago team, and this is one of the worst things ever to happen to Cubs fans.

 

L O S E R.

 

For what it's worth, the Cubs organization showed some class post-season last year: I walked by Wrigley and the famous sign said "CONGRATULATIONS 2005 ALCS CHAMPION WHITE SOX!"

 

Too bad their fans can't show the same class...

[Controlled Chaos]

I second this claim.

 

I third it. I'm an all or nothing guy.

[witesoxfan]

I guess I'm the only one that thinks a fan can only root for one team.

 

Are we talking fan of one team as in you can't like any other team but 1 team, or in that you have 1 primary team that you cheer for, but you also have others that you like but aren't necessarily a fan of them?

[Felix]

Are we talking fan of one team as in you can't like any other team but 1 team, or in that you have 1 primary team that you cheer for, but you also have others that you like but aren't necessarily a fan of them?

See, I consider someone who roots for a team on a somewhat consistant basis a fan, but thats just me. In that sense, I think you can be a fan of more than one team, especially when the two teams are in two completely different leagues.

[WCSox]

I third it.  I'm an all or nothing guy.

 

I root for the Cardinals as long as they're not playing the Sox. But the emotion invested in them isn't even comparable to what I put into the Sox.

[greg775]

The North Dakotan does sound like a Cub fan to me.

I'd just keep asking him questions about the Sox whenever you see him

and keep suggesting you go to more games ... Sox games!

 

When I was a kid it was funny my grandpa was a Cub fan and so was my

uncle but the rest of the family loved the Sox.

 

I'd go with my grandfather to a lot of Cub games to keep him company.

I was about 10. Those Cub games were sold out so much many times I'd

be in one seat and he'd be a couple aisles away. I guess he had to buy

single tickets to get us in. He was such a nice guy he'd never much brag about

the Cubs or anything.

He must have known deep down I preferred THE SOX!

[Dam8610]

Are we talking fan of one team as in you can't like any other team but 1 team, or in that you have 1 primary team that you cheer for, but you also have others that you like but aren't necessarily a fan of them?

 

I think a fan as defined by the word the term was derived from would only have one team that they like. That doesn't mean that every other team in the league is hated. There is such a thing as having no strong feeling about a team. I just can't imagine being a fan of any other team but the White Sox, and I can't understand how anyone can claim to be a fan of more than one team.

[Felix]

I think a fan as defined by the word the term was derived from would only have one team that they like. That doesn't mean that every other team in the league is hated. There is such a thing as having no strong feeling about a team. I just can't imagine being a fan of any other team but the White Sox, and I can't understand how anyone can claim to be a fan of more than one team.

Well, I consider myself a fan of both the White Sox and Cubs. I support the White Sox first and foremost while following them much more, but if they aren't playing, I support the Cubs. I'd rather see Chicago have success than another city anyday of the week. If that makes me not a fan in your eyes, so be it.

[qwerty]

I like the indians and cubs so fish all of you.

[qwerty]

Why do you hate the Mets? I can never understand how a White Sox fan can hate the Mets. They are the National League White Sox.

 

Well he lives considerably closer to new york than we do...

[Dam8610]

Well, I consider myself a fan of both the White Sox and Cubs.  I support the White Sox first and foremost while following them much more, but if they aren't playing, I support the Cubs.  I'd rather see Chicago have success than another city anyday of the week.  If that makes me not a fan in your eyes, so be it.

 

I simply can't understand how you could want the Cubs to have success. Let's forget the rivalry for a moment. You're a Sox fan first and foremost, right? I would assume that would mean that you want to see the Sox succeed the most. Usually, the more revenue a team generates, the more successful that team will be. Guess which team is the main competition for any revenue the White Sox could possibly get? That would be the Cubs. Since the Cubs are the main competition for the thing that can make the White Sox more successful, and the better the Cubs do, the more of it they will get, it would logically follow that you (being a White Sox fan) would want the revenue that the Cubs take in to be at a minimum, so that the Sox can maximize the revenue they bring in, since the two teams are in direct competition for basically the same revenues. The Cubs revenue should be minimized when they are losing a lot. Therefore, as a Sox fan, you would want them to lose.

Edited April 28, 2006 by Dam8610

[Dam8610]

I actaully dont beleive that,but whatever.

 

Why don't you believe that?

[YASNY]

I think a fan as defined by the word the term was derived from would only have one team that they like. That doesn't mean that every other team in the league is hated. There is such a thing as having no strong feeling about a team. I just can't imagine being a fan of any other team but the White Sox, and I can't understand how anyone can claim to be a fan of more than one team.

 

Here's my situation, so maybe I can help you understand. First and foremost, I'm a Sox fan. Period. They will always be first in my heart above any other team in existance, including all other sports. Now, I happen to live in Cardinal territory. Therefore, there are a lot of people I work with, like, care about, etc that are Cards fans. When the Cards do well, these people are generally happy and more pleasant to be around. Therefore, I pull for the Cards.

 

Also, my girlfriend and her family live in Dallas area and are Rangers fans. For the same reasoning as above, I pull for the Rangers. We've been to a few Sox/Rangers games at Ameriquest and I always go in Sox gear and openly root for the Sox, to the chagrin of those seated around me. This also applies to the Mavs and Stars, unless they are opposing the Chicago teams. However, I can't quite get myself to pull for the Cowboys.

 

The point is, though, that I'm a Sox fan. I like the Cards, I like Rangers. It's easy to root for other teams for whatever reason. People each have there own reasons for choosing whatever secondary team to root for. However, that doesn't make them any less "fanatic" about the Sox.

[Texsox]

I had a wonderful conversation with a gentleman from the southside a few years ago who must have been in his 80s or 90s. He tells me back in his days, there wasn't a hated rivalry. The teams were so far away, it didn't matter. No one was going to travel all the way to the north side t watch a game and vice versa. He believes the rivalry thing came in during the 50s and 60s as a marketing tool to get more people out to the ballpark.

 

Like YAS, I am not in prime White Sox territory. This area is probably 340% Astros, 30% Rangers, and 30% every other team in the bigs. I can see and here Ranger games and Astros games with ease. I follow the Astros and wish them well all last season, up until their last four games.

 

What is nice, is I could pick and choose teams to root for. When I moved here, I was a huge Bulls fans, my buddies and I split season tickets. It was real easy to support the Spurs, my closest team, because of some very classy guys on the team. I still watch and see how the Bulls are doing, but I can't get as excited. A Spurs - Bulls series would really split my loyalties.

 

It was easy to root for the Dallas Stars with a couple ex-Hawks, but it never felt as good as if the Hawks could get to .500

 

It would have been easy a couple years ago to switch sides and cheer for the Cubs, after all, who would know? I'm a Chicago guy. I knew that would never happen when I laughed so hard I cried when Bartman received his 15 minutes of fame.

[easyw]

I think there is a lot made of the 'Cub-fan vs Sox-fan' junk and its all bull.

 

I grew up in the 1970s as a Cub fan, only because, as a kid, I was looking for an alternative to Woody Woodpecker cartoons in the afternoon, and found it in baseball from beauitiful Wrigley Field.

 

When I was old enough to go to games, beginning in the early 1980s, I probably went to about 2 Cub games for every Sox game I attended. But I had a cousin from the south side who was like a brother to me, and he dragged me to some games. Back then the Cubs and Sox never played each other, so I rooted for the Cubs in the NL and the Sox in the AL.

 

As the Cubs got more exposure after their 1984 run, Wrigleyville, Wrigley Field, and Cub fans changed for the worst. For the past 20 years, that park has been full of nothin but a bunch of trendy band-wagon jumpers.

 

After the strike in 1994, I gave up following baseball altogether for about 5 years. As I slowly warmed back up to the game, around 2001, it was more as a Sox fan than a Cub fan. I guess the reason is that Sox Park was always less expensive, and tickets were plentiful.

 

I wouldn't call myself a bandwagon jumper or a fair-weather fan. I was at the Division clincher vs Seattle in 1983 (ran on the field) and the last game at old Comiskey in 1990... among many others.

 

And you might recall former Sox owner Bill Veeck spent a lot of time in the Wrigley Field bleachers in the 1980s. Hell, he planted the ivy on the walls! You think Veeck bought into this 'Cub fan vs Sox fan' nonsense. Hell no!

 

You can root for both teams.

 

But when they play head-to-head, you have to choose a side. Not an easy thing to do for a Chicago baseball fan.

Edited April 28, 2006 by easyw

[SouthSidePride05]

Great discussion!

 

You can root for both teams, but I would think the majority of Sox fans don't.

 

Personally, I can only put my heart and soul into one team. Over the years I've heard way too much crap from Cub fans to ever root for their team. In fact whenever I happen to watch the Cubs, I root my hardest for whoever they're playing. Not just because of the huge amounts of obnoxious Cub fans; it's because I want the team I put my heart and soul into and follow religiously to be far and away the best team in Chicago.

 

In 2003 when the Cubs choked in the NLCS, it was one of the greatest baseball moments in history for me.. If the Cubs hadn't choked, all of Chicago and all the bandwagoners, which is actually the vast majority of Chicago, would have turned this town upside down in Cubbie-loving hysteria... and the Sox would forever be the forgotten stepchild in Chicago. It would have been disastrous for the Sox. I'm so glad we won it first, and I hope we win 10 more before the Cubs even make the playoffs again.

 

As much as I don't care about popularity and only worry about W's, I would love to one day see the White Sox draw a string of sellouts. It's like a domino effect.. people want to be a part of the atmosphere of a sellout, so if they see a string of sellouts, they'll find a way to get there, and eventually everyone wants to go and then you start seeing sold out seasons. I have no idea if that'll ever happen in my lifetime, but I would love to see it.. along with a string of World Series wins!!

[fathom]

In 2003 when the Cubs choked in the NLCS, it was one of the greatest baseball moments in history for me..  If the Cubs hadn't choked, all of Chicago and all the bandwagoners, which is actually the vast majority of Chicago, would have turned this town upside down in Cubbie-loving hysteria... and the Sox would forever be the forgotten stepchild in Chicago.  It would have been disastrous for the Sox.  I'm so glad we won it first, and I hope we win 10 more before the Cubs even make the playoffs again.   

 

 

I remember feeling sick to my stomach when Kerry Wood homered in Game 7. When Bako flew out to end that game, it was one of the greatest sports moments of my life.

[My Dixie Normus]

I have seen over 700 baseball games in Chicago since 1980. From 1980 through 1987, I rarely missed a Sox home game. 7 have been at Wrigley but none of them are Crosstown games oddly enough. I saw Prior's first game as a Cub against PIT. I think he struck out 10 that night. I have seen games in LA-A, LA-D, SF, Sea, AZ, MN (including 2 WS games), Atl, KC, NY-Y, NY-M, Bos, Mil., St. L. and a HOF game (Sox vs. Mets '82).

 

In August of 1994, the Sox lead the AL central by a game lead by Frank Thomas and many felt they would go deep into the playoffs, if not take it all. On the 12th of August, the players walked out because the owners were pressing for a salary cap. The World Series was cancelled. The strike ended in April of the following year. Many fans stayed away, I was one of them. I didn't come back in earnest until three years later. I was that pissed. But I never really came back to the levels I was in the 80s. Partly because of the life changes that had happened during that period (Wife, kids and a serious job) but also I just did not want to invest (not $) that much of me into it again to get kicked in the teeth again. The famous 'white flag trade' confirmed for me that I made the right decision.

 

Since then, the organization has undergone a major turn around, IMO. I think it began when KW was hired but he was horrible at first. It wasn't until Roland Hemond came back that KW got wind under his wings. Last year was long over due. But as bad as the Sox have treated fans, the Cubs are worse. The are absolutley content with losing. The whole thing with the roof top owners and the extra seats are just a few examples but owning a ticket broker right across the street and selling that broker tickets the fans never had a shot at is reprehensible. I could never root for them as long as they are owned by the Trib.

[fathom]

But as bad as the Sox have treated fans, the Cubs are worse. The are absolutley content with losing. The whole thing with the roof top owners and the extra seats are just a few examples but owning a ticket broker right across the street and selling that broker tickets the fans never had a shot at is reprehensible. I could never root for them as long as they are owned by the Trib.

 

I can't stand the myth that the Cubs ownership is content with losing, as long as they pack the stands. They've had one of the highest payrolls in baseball the last few years. It's not the ownerships fault that Wood has awful mechanics and Prior is a pussy.