Arizona proposing illegal immigrant crackdown.

[juddling]

Everyone born in the United States is a citizen.

That's one loophole i'd like to see gone. If the parents are illegal then the kid should be too. It would take away SOME incentive of coming here

Edited May 5, 2006 by juddling

[Texsox]

Some of the designs Ive seen for a border wall you'd need a lot more than a ladder.

What if we built a moat, a river, Let's call it the Rio Grande River and see how that does.

[Texsox]

Some of the designs Ive seen for a border wall you'd need a lot more than a ladder.

 

Don't forget to mine the harbors in California and Texas in case they try and sneak in via boats, like the Cubans.

[juddling]

Don't forget to mine the harbors in California and Texas in case they try and sneak in via boats, like the Cubans.

 

 

well....maybe we should wait and see if they can pitch like the Cubans first.

 

 

[bmags]

Can you actually offer up any evidence that more than 0.000001% of those who walked out were actually illegal and not just joining the rally to offer support?

 

i'm sorry, but the nitpicking of evilmonkeys post has to stop. He said IF those 25% were all illegals then that amt. was being spent on non citizens. That is a valid argument.

[Texsox]

i'm sorry, but the nitpicking of evilmonkeys post has to stop. He said IF those 25% were all illegals then that amt. was being spent on non citizens. That is a valid argument.

 

And if they were citizens we'd be spending the same amount of money.

[YASNY]

And if they were citizens we'd be spending the same amount of money.

 

If they were citizens, we'd also be collecting taxes from them. You liberals are usually in favor of collecting taxes.

[Texsox]

If they were citizens, we'd also be collecting taxes from them.  You liberals are usually in favor of collecting taxes.

 

And most are paying taxes, just through fraudelent social security numbers.

[YASNY]

And most are paying taxes, just through fraudelent social security numbers.

 

That's their own damn fault.

[Texsox]

That's their own damn fault.

 

Yes it is. And as soon as they are legal, they will not be costing us less. In fact, IMHO, they will cost us more, as they are more likely to apply for the benefis that our lawmakers have created.

 

And their children will receive great educations and will not want to toil in minimum wage jobs and more immigrants will take their place, and so it goes. We have been taking inimmigrants to do our dirty work thorughout our history. They came from Africa aboard slave boats, they came from China to build our railroads, and now they come freely, under their own power.

 

Soon our laws will actually address our needs and hopefully correct a system that encourages people to break the law.

[shoota]

you missed the point of the question... (anyway for them it was being free from what they felt was a sort of empirical rule.( I mean for all the people clamoring that they leave, and then they leave and teh economy suffers. Does anyone see that a possible parallel.

 

it wasn't an opinion it was a question.

 

Any loss in our economy will be balanced out by our lower car insurance rates.

[shoota]

Let's all live behind tall walls, let's place speed bumps on our highways, let's arrest drunks in bars, let's stop selling spray paint until the person has a background check, let's drug test everyone when they apply for a driver's license. There are so many crimes we can stop with a some expense and loss of our liberties.

 

And someone please total up the damages that illegals have caused. The terrorist acts that this would solve, the cost to governments that having illegals instead of legals performing, the costs to our society.

 

Then look at the possibilities in changes to our laws to match up people who need jobs with people who need them. Let's not swat mosquitoes with scud missles.

 

Those who cross our borders without permission are law breakers.

 

Do you suggest this nation not enforce its laws?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Do you suggest this nation not enforce its laws?

 

Nope. The suggestion being made is that nation should improve its laws to better fit the situation.

[Texsox]

Those who cross our borders without permission are law breakers.

 

Do you suggest this nation not enforce its laws?

 

 

I suggest that we not destroy our agriculture industry, reduce our personal liberties, and create huge deficits, to blindly enforce laws that clearly should have been better written to begin with. We should have improved those laws way back when Reagan put in an amnesty program, but we didn't.

 

Daily we decide how the laws will be enforced. Police watch cars speed by and only stop the worse offenses. Drg users are allowed to go free in exchange for help arresting the dealers. People are allowed to pay fines and avoid jail time. We certainly can enforce our laws without building the Great Wall, locking up 12,000,000 people, etc.

[Controlled Chaos]

I suggest that we not destroy our agriculture industry, reduce our personal liberties, and create huge deficits, to blindly enforce laws that clearly should have been better written to begin with. We should have improved those laws way back when Reagan put in an amnesty program, but we didn't.

 

Daily we decide how the laws will be enforced. Police watch cars speed by and only stop the worse offenses. Drg users are allowed to go free in exchange for help arresting the dealers. People are allowed to pay fines and avoid jail time. We certainly can enforce our laws without building the Great Wall, locking up 12,000,000 people, etc.

 

 

Acording to the Pew Hispanic Center, "About 7.2 million unauthorized migrants were employed in March 2005, accounting for about 4.9% of the civilian labor force. They made up a large share of all workers in a few more detailed occupational categories, including 24% of all workers employed in farming occupations, 17% in cleaning, 14% in construction and 12% in food preparation."

 

Just curious.....All I have been hearing is that illegal immigrants only take jobs that Americans won't take. Well who is doing the other 76% of farming, 83% of cleaning, 86% of construction and 88% of food preparation then?

Edited May 8, 2006 by Controlled Chaos

[FlaSoxxJim]

Just curious.....All I have been hearing is that illegal immigrants only take jobs that Americans won't take.  Well who is doing the other 76% of farming, 83% of cleaning, 86% of construction and 88% of food preparation then?

 

I'd venture that a large proportion of the remainder is legal immigrant labor, as well as first-time jobbers (high school and college), summer work for the same, etc. And of course there are also several levels of skilled workforce in all of those fields that add to the jobs total bottom line.

 

the better measure, I think, is to take that 5% total labor number and compere it to the US citizen unemployment totals and to honestly decide how many of those citizens on the unemployment rolls would be willing to take the jobs the illegals are doing for the same wages and non-benefits the illegals are currently receiving. I don't think you'd come close to filling all those shoes from that diminished pool of willing cheap laborers.

[YASNY]

If the illegals weren't taking these non-benefit jobs, then the employers would be forced to hire legal citizens or immigrants and supply the benefits. Then we wouldn't have to "honestly decide how many of those citizens on the unemployment rolls would be willing to take the jobs the illegals are doing for the same wages and non-benefits the illegals are currently receiving."

[Middle Buffalo]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060501/pl_nm/...HNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

 

National guard troops to the border, crackdowns on businesses who hire illegals and a bunch of other goodies.  Im liking what they are proposing down there.

Ouch. This could clear out the apartment complex that I own. It also means that I better get going on some of my home improvement projects that I have planned. I (like my hero Big Frank) can't afford to hire union labor.

[FlaSoxxJim]

If the illegals weren't taking these non-benefit jobs, then the employers would be forced to hire legal citizens or immigrants and supply the benefits.  Then we wouldn't have to "honestly decide how many of those citizens on the unemployment rolls would be willing to take the jobs the illegals are doing for the same wages and non-benefits the illegals are currently receiving."

 

Which suggests there are economic implications and ramifications that one-dimensional points of view such as 'illegals must be taking good jobs away from Americans' do not consider.

 

It's a mess and it needs fixing, that is very true. But it was allowed to become a mess because we Americans like to enjoy the fruits (literally in many cases) of a cheap labor force. It's only now that many are actually wondering how the tomatoes got to the market and who's washing the dishes at the resturaunt and wher did that army of hotel maids come from. And it turns out that, HOLY f***, it's a bunch of illegals!!

 

Why all the illegal labor? Because our goods and services would otherwise cost two or three times what they do now. But 12 million cheap laborors living on the fringes of society are finally too many to ignore, and so now we're gonna fix things. . .

[YASNY]

Which suggests there are economic implications and ramifications that one-dimensional points of view such as 'illegals must be taking good jobs away from Americans' do not consider.

 

It's a mess and it needs fixing, that is very true.  But it was allowed to become a mess because we Americans like to enjoy the fruits (literally in many cases) of a cheap labor force.  It's only now that many are actually wondering how the tomatoes got to the market and who's washing the dishes at the resturaunt and wher did that army of hotel maids come from.  And it turns out that, HOLY f***, it's a bunch of illegals!!

 

Why all the illegal labor?  Because our goods and services would otherwise cost two or three times what they do now.  But 12 million cheap laborors living on the fringes of society are finally too many to ignore, and so now we're gonna fix things. . . 

 

Do you honestly believe that?

[FlaSoxxJim]

Do you honestly believe that?

 

Of course not. Hence the

Edited May 8, 2006 by FlaSoxxJim

[YASNY]

Of course not.  Hence the 

 

Well, that's something we agree on.

[Controlled Chaos]

A fence would help.

[NorthSideSox72]

A fence would help.

There is already a fence.

 

And as for a wall, better to go the cheaper, less damaging, more effective route of technology and smart use of manpower. AND working towards lessening demand by penalizing businesses who hire them.

[Controlled Chaos]

There is already a fence.

 

And as for a wall, better to go the cheaper, less damaging, more effective route of technology and smart use of manpower.  AND working towards lessening demand by penalizing businesses who hire them.

 

A wall, technology, a moat...whatever.