I Just Realized I Won The Lottery

[Texsox]

Southsider shared his personal observations from yesterdays rally, oh how I wish I were there. Of all the coverage I watched, the commentary I read, his was my favorite. It is nice to know reporters beliefs when reading their reports.

 

He spoke of the mood and the feeling this was more a party than a demonstration. Not seeing the passions, he expected. I believe for many in the crowd, it was a support thing, and yes they would have less passion, but a party to feel good about being in America isn't a bad thing. In fact, I was sitting here earlier, thinking about how lucky we are to be born in America, and living here in 2006. That is the biggest lottery win of all. We have experienced peace on the domestic front for over a century. Economic stability and growth, advances in medicine here first, White Sox win a WS. Then I wonder how many here would . . .

 

Give up their family and friends, their hometowns, their heritage and birthrights, to walk hundreds and thousands of miles across hills, valleys, mountains, and deserts. Trudging daily through rain, snow, freezing temperatures and blazing heat, always in the elements. Alternatively, investing their meager resources and being stuffed in a truck trailer or shipping container, hoping not to be caught, hoping to live to see sunshine.

 

Moreover, let us not forget those that have a legal opportunity to cross the waters and land on our shores. Doctors giving up their practice to train to be nurses, business owners taking entry level programming jobs, tool and die makers trusting the American Dream.

 

They arrive, most not speaking the language, unfamiliar with the customs, traditions, and laws. Trying to navigate, negotiate, and survive. Immigrants run into the dark side of America first. The hate, crime, poverty, over crowding, discrimination, and criminals out to make a buck at the immigrants expense. Learning to trust must be difficult.

 

Most are grabbing the American Dream. Believing that if they work hard enough, sacrifice enough, that American is the most level playing field life can offer. Despite our shortcomings, the taxes, OSHA, laws and regulations, and anything else as Native Born Americans we want to use as an excuse, you can make it here. We hear stories of these immigrants wanting a better life, not for themselves, but for their kids. They speak of the education system, health care, and most of all opportunity, opportunity, and opportunity; if one works hard enough, and is dedicated enough, they can make it. They feel it in their bones, while we are taking it for granted as our birthright.

 

No matter your position on immigration and immigrants, our country could do well by embracing once again, the spirit of the immigrant. The burning desire to improve our lot, which will make America better for all of us. I believe we advance further and faster by raising the bottom not moving the top higher.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Well spoken.

 

I'm kind of bummed though. I was ready to hit you up for some $$.

[EvilMonkey]

No matter your position on immigration and immigrants, our country could do well by embracing once again, the spirit of the immigrant. The burning desire to improve our lot, which will make America better for all of us. I believe we advance further and faster by raising the bottom not moving the top higher.

Tex, I believe this to be true, ONLY if the immigrants coming to our country truely want to be a prt of this country. There are too many hyphens around nowadays and not enough 'American'. Immigrants in the past were happy and thankful to be here, and usually did thier best to become an American, not to be a Mexican living in America.

[Texsox]

Tex, I believe this to be true, ONLY if the immigrants coming to our country truely want to be a prt of this country.  There are too many hyphens around nowadays and not enough 'American'.  Immigrants in the past were happy and thankful to be here, and usually did thier best to become an American, not to be a Mexican living in America.

 

Greek Town, China Town, Little Italy

 

I'm not so certain immigrants in the past were much different.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Tex, I believe this to be true, ONLY if the immigrants coming to our country truely want to be a prt of this country.  There are too many hyphens around nowadays and not enough 'American'.  Immigrants in the past were happy and thankful to be here, and usually did thier best to become an American, not to be a Mexican living in America.

 

I can almost assure you that first-generation past immigrants were just as stubborn in preserving their homeland culture, if not more. There is always a strong sense of pride about your roots and where you came from, where you were born, and, especially, were you grew up and were raised. It's natural.

 

But just take a look at the second generation, at the sons and daughters of immigrants, and tell me that they are not as Americanized as children from 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. generations. They'll be proud of being Mexican-American and of their heritage, as well they should be, but their loyalty and support will be towards their own country, the one they will live the rest of their lives in. Hell, some grow up speaking very little or forgetting Spanish. No second generation kid would even give returning to Mexico or whatever country their parents came from a thought.

[Queen Prawn]

When my great grand parents came over from Poland, their big thing was, "We are American now, we must speak the language and observe the customs." That didn't mean letting go of who they were but, it did mean loving the country and doing what they could to make it better as well as make a better life for their kids. The biggest thing to them was making sure they spoke English so they could create the new life they did. They still spoke Polish at times, but made sure they could converse with people who were now their neighbors, co-workers and bosses that didn't speak Polish.

 

When my dad came here, while he spole Irish English, he did have to "learn" American English to some degree (the three of us still laugh at my dad's version of the language at times, and yes he laughs as well).

 

There is more to it, but I really need to get to sleep lol. At next opportunity, I will try to clarify what I am trying to say here.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Greek Town, China Town, Little Italy

 

I'm not so certain immigrants in the past were much different.

 

Exactly. They're no different in that regard to any other group of immigrants, no matter how far back you go.

[EvilMonkey]

Greek Town, China Town, Little Italy

 

I'm not so certain immigrants in the past were much different.

But they WERE different. The Greeks didn't demand drivers tests and governmebt services in Greek. Itialian immigrants urged, in some cases demanded, thier kids be Americans, learn English and to take advantage of why they were there. You didn;t have a Chinese version of Telemundo. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your cultural heritage, but if you want to be part of the American dream, and be an American citizen, how about fitting in a little bit?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

You didn;t have a Chinese version of Telemundo. 

 

You mean you don't get any Asian channels??? Maybe give the bunny ears a try.

 

That must suck. I have no idea what they're saying, but their samurai soap operas look kinda cool, and their game shows are crazy.

[EvilMonkey]

You mean you don't get any Asian channels???  Maybe give the bunny ears a try.

 

That must suck.  I have no idea what they're saying, but their samurai soap operas look kinda cool, and their game shows are crazy.

You have that NOW, but you didn't have it then. At worst, you had a local chinese newspaper or something.

[Rex Kickass]

They didn't have TV then. It was the 1800s for Christssake.

[FlaSoxxJim]

The Melting Pot has always been more myth than reality. That is why ethnic ghettos have always existed – ethnic groups settled gregariously and maintained communities in the face of an established culture that was only penetrated with time.

 

I personally think that has always been one of the greatest things about this country, and a lot of that has been lost during and after WWII. The need for German Americans, Japanese Americans, etc., to more fully assimilate was very much defensive, and the homoginized bland McAmerica and BudAmerica that resulted was worse off for the lack of diversity.

Edited May 5, 2006 by FlaSoxxJim

[YASNY]

Exactly.  They're no different in that regard to any other group of immigrants, no matter how far back you go.

 

There is one huge difference. The vast majority of the other immigrants were here legally.

[Texsox]

But they WERE different. The Greeks didn't demand drivers tests and governmebt services in Greek.  Itialian immigrants urged, in some cases demanded, thier kids be Americans, learn English and to take advantage of why they were there.  You didn;t have a Chinese version of Telemundo.  There is nothing wrong with being proud of your cultural heritage, but if you want to be part of the American dream, and be an American citizen, how about fitting in a little bit?

 

If a business wishes to gain market share by speaking Spanish, Italian, Polish, or whatever, isn't that free enterprises and competition? With all the Mexican tourists down here, a store would die in a week if they didn't speak Spanish.

 

Most of the government accomodations have come as a result of our government offering better and better service to anyone in this country. It attracts tourism for one, knowing you can have a nice vacation in America and get through our regulations.

 

So if our government can be *more* efficient by offering a form in another language, instead of having a clerk explain something for the 20th time, or having everyone walking in have a person to assist them, isn't that better? Why can't we offer the finest in customer service from the greatest country on the planet?

[EvilMonkey]

If a business wishes to gain market share by speaking Spanish, Italian, Polish, or whatever, isn't that free enterprises and competition? With all the Mexican tourists down here, a store would die in a week if they didn't speak Spanish.

 

Most of the government accomodations have come as a result of our government offering better and better service to anyone in this country. It attracts tourism for one, knowing you can have a nice vacation in America and get through our regulations.

 

So if our government can be *more* efficient by offering a form in another language, instead of having a clerk explain something for the 20th time, or having everyone walking in have a person to assist them, isn't that better? Why can't we offer the finest in customer service from the greatest country on the planet?

I have no problem with businesses deciding that bilinguilism is a good thing for them. That is market-driven, especially in border areas. But why, when I go to a cash station machine, does it ask me if I want this in spanish or english? That shouldn't even be a question. if you are here long enough to have a bank account to withdraw cash from, you should have learned enough english to conduct a withdrawall. When I go to get a drivers license, spanish should not be an option. The road signs are english (for now!), and again, you should know enough english to get by in these places. Kids should know english BEFORE they get into the public education system.

[FlaSoxxJim]

I have no problem with businesses deciding that bilinguilism is a good thing for them.  That is market-driven, especially in border areas.  But why, when I go to a cash station machine, does it ask me if I want this in spanish or english?  That shouldn't even be a question.  if you are here long enough to have a bank account to withdraw cash from, you should have learned enough english to conduct a withdrawall.  When I go to get a drivers license, spanish should not be an option.  The road signs are english (for now!), and again, you should know enough english to get by in these places.  Kids should know english BEFORE they get into the public education system.

Regarding the ATMs, you answered your own question. It's appropriate for them to be multlingual precicely because not all the users have been here long enough to learn the language. Here in the 21st century, non-English speaking tourists can access their overseas bank accounts. Like you said, in border areas especially it makes good business sense to offer a miltilingual interface.

[Rex Kickass]

And why do banks in Chicago ask me if I want to use Polish? Oh yeah, because there are Poles there - who despite knowing and using English feel more comfortable using their native tongue when making business transactions because they don't want to screw up their finances.

 

I think its PNC Bank that gives you the choice of 6 languages to use.

[NorthSideSox72]

And why do banks in Chicago ask me if I want to use Polish? Oh yeah, because there are Poles there - who despite knowing and using English feel more comfortable using their native tongue when making business transactions because they don't want to screw up their finances.

 

I think its PNC Bank that gives you the choice of 6 languages to use.

The newer Bank One / JP Morgan / Chase / whatevertheycallthemselves ATMs have a list of about a dozen possible languages.

[Controlled Chaos]

Southsider shared his personal observations from yesterdays rally, oh how I wish I were there. Of all the coverage I watched, the commentary I read, his was my favorite. It is nice to know reporters beliefs when reading their reports.

 

He spoke of the mood and the feeling this was more a party than a demonstration. Not seeing the passions, he expected.  I believe  for many in the crowd, it was a support thing, and yes they would have less passion, but a party to feel good about being in America isn't a bad thing. In fact, I was sitting here earlier, thinking about how lucky we are to be born in America, and living here in 2006. That is the biggest lottery win of all.  We have experienced peace on the domestic front for over a century. Economic stability and growth, advances in medicine here first, White Sox win a WS. Then I wonder how many here would . . .

 

Give up their family and friends, their hometowns, their heritage and birthrights, to walk hundreds and thousands of miles across hills, valleys, mountains, and deserts. Trudging daily through rain, snow, freezing temperatures and blazing heat, always in the elements. Alternatively, investing their meager resources and being stuffed in a truck trailer or shipping container, hoping not to be caught, hoping to live to see sunshine.

 

Moreover, let us not forget those that have a legal opportunity to cross the waters and land on our shores. Doctors giving up their practice to train to be nurses, business owners taking entry level programming jobs, tool and die makers trusting the American Dream.

 

They arrive, most not speaking the language, unfamiliar with the customs, traditions, and laws. Trying to navigate, negotiate, and survive. Immigrants run into the dark side of America first. The hate, crime, poverty, over crowding, discrimination, and criminals out to make a buck at the immigrants expense. Learning to trust must be difficult.

 

Most are grabbing the American Dream. Believing that if they work hard enough, sacrifice enough, that American is the most level playing field life can offer. Despite our shortcomings, the taxes, OSHA, laws and regulations, and anything else as Native Born Americans we want to use as an excuse, you can make it here. We hear stories of these immigrants wanting a better life, not for themselves, but for their kids. They speak of the education system, health care, and most of all opportunity, opportunity, and opportunity; if one works hard enough, and is dedicated enough, they can make it. They feel it in their bones, while we are taking it for granted as our birthright.

 

No matter your position on immigration and immigrants, our country could do well by embracing once again, the spirit of the immigrant. The burning desire to improve our lot, which will make America better for all of us. I believe we advance further and faster by raising the bottom not moving the top higher.

 

reading your post reminded me of this article...

 

 

Immigration madness -- come one, come all, no ticket needed

 

May 3, 2006

by Tony Blankley

 

As I watch our country almost hopelessly divided and wandering off in all sorts of wrong directions, I think of the last verse of John Milton's "Paradise Lost," when Adam and Eve are expelled from the Garden of Eden:

 

"They, looking back, all the eastern side beheld of Paradise, so late their happy seat, Waved over by that flaming brand, the gate With dreadful faces thronged and fiery arms:

 

"Some natural tears they dropped, but wiped them soon; The world was all before them, where to choose Their place of rest, and Providence their guide;

 

 

"They, hand in hand, with wandering steps and slow, Through Eden took their solitary way."

 

Of course, all is not lost. Some years later, Milton wrote "Paradise Regained." But what a terrible journey of rediscovery was before Man, once he had foolishly succumbed to temptations that forced him to leave Eden and live amongst Satan and his servants in the outer world.

 

I know America has not been a Garden of Eden, but for a temporal land, how wonderful it has been. And how casually we are casting off its manifold blessings. And for what future.

 

It is almost inconceivable that an argument is taken seriously that we don't have the right to secure our borders and determine who shall enter our country. Not only has such lunacy become respectable, but our mainstream media instantly, instinctively embraces such a position. Every radio headline newscast, almost every newspaper and television report willfully refuses to distinguish between illegal and legal immigrants. Each report stamps the mark of evil on the forehead of all who would guard our borders.

 

Even the Republican president of the United States makes the nonest of non-sequiturs, when he justifies doing nothing to enforce the border laws by claiming that these are decent humans just looking for a chance in life.

 

Well, with the exception of the 29 percent of federal prisoners and similar numbers in state prisons, with the exception of those who seek our welfare, rather than a job -- the rest of the wayfarers are indeed far from their native lands for the most decent and best of intentions.

 

I would guess that of the world's 6 billion or so souls -- probably about 75 percent are good and decent folks who only want the best for their children and the world. It's the same all over -- England, Mexico, America, Africa, throughout the world -- about a quarter of the population are bums, the rest are pretty good.

 

And most of them would like to live in America. But why stop with 85 million Mexicans? For the open border crowd -- which apparently includes virtually the entire American political, media, academic and business establishment -- there is no reason to try to keep out anyone who wants to come in. (The Senate and the president have made it quite clear that they have no plans to actually secure the border. Their border security proposals are charades and calculated pretenses.)

 

There are still about 700 million Chinese peasants waiting impatiently for a decent job; probably about an equal number of Indians. And most of the African continent could surely live better in Phoenix than they do being butchered in genocidal wars or starving in man-induced famines.

 

What is the moral basis for discriminating against that part of suffering humanity unlucky enough to find itself not sharing a border with the good old U.S. of A.? Perhaps the Dubai Ports World company could start chartering ships to bring the rest of suffering humanity to our shores.

 

Perhaps we have a moral obligation to tax ourselves to pay to transport to America all 4 billion or so humans who would prefer to live here, rather than where cruel fate has placed them. Surely there must be a Clinton-appointed federal judge somewhere who can provide the constitutional argument for such a mandated tax.

 

Frankly, that last lunatic idea doesn't sound any more far-fetched than the first lunatic idea -- that we have no right to keep anyone out of the country who goes to the bother of coming here. You can't do satire in a lunatic asylum or in present-day American politics.

 

Apparently the American establishment has finally taken to heart the teaching of Karl Marx: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. America should house and feed and educate and provide health care and employ all the world according to our ability. And surely the people of the world will provide the need.

 

And why not? After all, it is just dumb luck that each of us finds ourselves in God-blessed America.

 

Well, if we keep going at this rate we will soon run out of luck. But apparently we will never run out of dumb.

[bmags]

Greek Town, China Town, Little Italy

 

I'm not so certain immigrants in the past were much different.

 

^^^^

so true.

[southsider2k5]

Greek Town, China Town, Little Italy

 

I'm not so certain immigrants in the past were much different.

 

Well they were here legally and documented...

[YASNY]

Well they were here legally and documented...

 

The point conveniently gets left out of the discussion.

[FlaSoxxJim]

The point conveniently gets left out of the discussion.

Bucause the point is altogether not the touchstone truth people want to make it out to be.

 

Author Mae Ngai of Columbia University is a recognized authority on the history of illegal immigration. And guess what? It doesn't start with the Reagan-era amnesty, or any time near that which you would consider modern.

 

Her first book, Impossible Subjects: Illegal Aliens and the Making of Modern America, 1924-1965 (2004, Princeton University Press) gets into how the restrictive US immigration laws set the stage for the illegals epidemic. She's writtten a lot on illegal Chinese immigration during the Cold War years, and is working on something now that goes back as far as 1870 to see evidence of illegal immigration.

[YASNY]

Bucause the point is altogether not the touchstone truth people want to make it out to be.

 

Author Mae Ngai of Columbia University is a recognized authority on the history of illegal immigration.  And guess what?  It doesn't start with the Reagan-era amnesty, or any time near that which you would consider modern.

 

Her first book, Impossible Subjects: Illegal Aliens and the Making of Modern America, 1924-1965 (2004, Princeton University Press) gets into how the restrictive US immigration laws set the stage for the illegals epidemic.  She's writtten a lot on illegal Chinese immigration during the Cold War years, and is working on something now that goes back as far as 1870 to see evidence of illegal immigration.

 

Illegal immigration has always existed, I'll give you that. Now, let's talk about numbers. Twelve million? That number was probably not achieved in the first 200 years of the existence of this nation.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Illegal immigration has always existed, I'll give you that.  Now, let's talk about numbers.  Twelve million?  That number was probably not achieved in the first 200 years of the existence of this nation.

 

No I'm sure it wasn't. Then again, we didn't have close to 300 million people here either.

 

But I thought it wasn't about the numbers? I've been hearing 'illegal is illegal' for the last several months regarding this issue. That should negate concern over whether it is 12,000 or 12,000,000.

 

Back to the point about not engaging in an argument based on, 'well they did it legally' when we are talking about immigrants 50 or 100 years ago. The statement is an overgeneralization that doesn't hold up to scrutiny and so seems a poor starting point for discussion rather than a point that is being "conveniently overlooked."