Mexicans Contribution To Our Economy

[YASNY]

The solution is to secure the border and make people come into the country legally.

[southsider2k5]

Is it the person that is doing the job that creates poor people, or the wages that these jobs pay? Would American bus boys not be poor? Unemployment is, and has been, very low. It seems our economy needs these jobs filled. If we do not allow for immigrant labor, who is going to do these jobs? Will Americans pick up the slack and work two jobs? Will college students take a couple years off their studies and become migrant workers? Should we raise the retirement age and have grandpa working in a slaughter house?

 

I keep hearing about the poverty problem, but the solution isn't someone else working the job, anyone else working the job would be poor. The solution is either raising the wages, (which is usually against conservative business philosophy), and getting Americans to accept careers as manual laborors, or building a guest worker program where immigrants use these jobs as their ticket to citizenship. Why are we not embracing the fact that the American education system produces children that offer more potential than manual labor? Our children do not have to toil at these jobs, and I for one am glad.

 

In this case it is illegal immigration that is causing, not solving that problem. Without illegal labor, wages would have to rise to a point where legal people would be willing to do the jobs. Or in many of the cases, wages would rise to the point where legal people could legally do the jobs, because many of the jobs are paying sub-minimum wages right now.

 

But because there is a supply of employees who have no rights to anything, in fact they are very similar to slave labor in the fact that it is detremental to their safety and presense here to say anything about their wages and conditions. The weird thing to me is that for understanding the situation personally, you seem to be endorsing Mexico to be sort of a lower caste for our labor force. You repeatly talk about the horrible conditions, but then turn around and say its OK for them to do, but not our own citizens and families.

 

It is simple economics really. If these jobs are that important to American's they will support living wages for people to them. If not, the demand for the products produced here will drop off accordingly. Besides if all of these people are legalized anyway, the inflation is coming down the turnpike because the illegals won't have to work for sub-minimum wages, and will become covered under programs such as OSHA and the EPA. In a weird twist, legalizing the illegals could end up costing them their jobs because as the wages rise to the minimum and beyond you might find legal American citizens who would be willing to work those jobs. The idea that leaglizing the illegals and keeping them working at subminimum wage is laughable.

[Texsox]

Sorry, I wasn't writing clearly.

 

I don't believe the jobs should pay sub-minimum. I believe we should have a guest worker program, much likeBush proposed, that matches workers with employers, at or above minimum wage. I also believe we are not producing enough citizens to fill these jobs, which is a good thing. I also believe that these jobs are undesirable, not only for the wages,. but the nature of the work. If any of our kids came home and said they wanted he life of a migrant farm worker, bus boy, we'd be aghast. We do not value unskilled jobs in this country. We haven't in a long time. We want to pay to sweat, not get paid to sweat.

 

From a job perspective, we need someone to fill these less desirable jobs, We have a large group of people who wish to live in the US. We then use these jobs as a entry for citizenship. Two needs are filled for everyone's benefit. Make it easy for employers to hire people througth the program and make it very bad for employers who are caught with illegal workers. Once a guest worker program is functioning, I don't have a problem with coming down with the full force of the government on employer's asses for paying people cash (from illegals to grandpa avoiding hurting his pension).

 

I am most concerned about our already vulnerable agriculture industry. By raising wages, more producers will be forced to grow our crops overseas. Dependency on foreign oil is a problem, we are also dependent on foreign food. I can go without driving for a long time, I can't go more than 3 weeks without food.

[YASNY]

Oh brother. We'll never be dependant on foriegn food. If we need it we'll grow it. It's not like oil where there is a finite amount. The rhetoric is getting ridiculous.

[Steff]

Oh brother. We'll never be dependant on foriegn food. If we need it we'll grow it. It's not like oil where there is a finite amount. The rhetoric is getting ridiculous.

 

 

 

What is "foriegn food" anyway?

 

 

Agree.. stupid conversation.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

The solution is to secure the border and make people come into the country legally.

 

Yep. All of which can be done without a massively overexpensive wall. Let's save the time, manpower, and huge amount of unnecessary tax dollars for building and, more expensively, maintaining an eye sore of a wall that we're gonna decide to tear down in the future anyways.

 

But, as has mentioned before, it's a pointless argument since there will be no wall.

[Texsox]

Oh brother. We'll never be dependant on foriegn food. If we need it we'll grow it. It's not like oil where there is a finite amount. The rhetoric is getting ridiculous.

 

We already are. We import an insane amount of food. Those strawberries in January? They weren't grown in Missouri. Your McBurgers? South American cattle. The only large burger chain that uses American beef is What-a-burger. It takes time to grow crops and the land is being used for shopping malls, not agriculture.

 

Check out this UK article

 

I also suggest this book if you care about the food you eat. Great read.

[YASNY]

We already are. We import an insane amount of food. Those strawberries in January? They weren't grown in Missouri. Your McBurgers? South American cattle. The only large burger chain that uses American beef is What-a-burger. It takes time to grow crops and the land is being used for shopping malls, not agriculture.

 

Check out this UK article

US Dept of Ag

 

We are importing food because it is profitable to do so, not because we need to. The USA can feed itself in a crisis situation.

[southsider2k5]

We already are. We import an insane amount of food. Those strawberries in January? They weren't grown in Missouri. Your McBurgers? South American cattle. The only large burger chain that uses American beef is What-a-burger. It takes time to grow crops and the land is being used for shopping malls, not agriculture.

 

Check out this UK article

 

I also suggest this book if you care about the food you eat. Great read.

 

The US is the biggest EXPORTER of food in the world. If there were really a problem, we would quit selling to other countries.

[Texsox]

We are importing food because it is profitable to do so, not because we need to. The USA can feed itself in a crisis situation.

 

Exactly. And as more and more capability gets plowed under, and more and more farms close, it becomes more and more difficult. It is in our nation's security interest to maintain a healthy agriculture industry. In a crisis we will be able to feed ourselves, but it will take time to plant those crops and have them grow.

[YASNY]

Exactly. And as more and more capability gets plowed under, and more and more farms close, it becomes more and more difficult. It is in our nation's security interest to maintain a healthy agriculture industry. In a crisis we will be able to feed ourselves, but it will take time to plant those crops and have them grow.

 

The Sky Is Falling!

[Texsox]

The US is the biggest EXPORTER of food in the world. If there were really a problem, we would quit selling to other countries.

 

As I mentioned, if you get a chance, pick up Spoiled : The Dangerous Truth about a Food Chain Gone Haywire it is an excellent synopsis on where our agriculture programs are heading. As our population is rising, our agriculture acreage is decreasing. At some point, the author theorizes, our increases in yields will no longer offset those decreases and we will become more dependent on foreign foods. We don't think of Ag as an important part of national security, but it is almost as vital as safe drinking water.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

The Sky Is Falling!

 

We better build a dome along with the wall to save us!

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

As I mentioned, if you get a chance, pick up Spoiled : The Dangerous Truth about a Food Chain Gone Haywire it is an excellent synopsis on where our agriculture programs are heading. As our population is rising, our agriculture acreage is decreasing. At some point, the author theorizes, our increases in yields will no longer offset those decreases and we will become more dependent on foreign foods. We don't think of Ag as an important part of national security, but it is almost as vital as safe drinking water.

 

 

So its population increases that are causing this problem huh? I guess we need to have a Chinese-style population control programme to prevent us from having to import food then huh?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

So its population increases that are causing this problem huh? I guess we need to have a Chinese-style population control programme to prevent us from having to import food then huh?

 

Since we wanna steal their Great Wall and Forbidden City ideas, might as well...

[southsider2k5]

So its population increases that are causing this problem huh? I guess we need to have a Chinese-style population control programme to prevent us from having to import food then huh?

 

Or we could stem illegal immigration, which is the only source of population increase in the US right now. the US popluation itself is actually at really close to zero growth right now.

[YASNY]

So its population increases that are causing this problem huh? I guess we need to have a Chinese-style population control programme to prevent us from having to import food then huh?

 

One way of controlling population increases in the USA is to keep the illegals out.

[Texsox]

So its population increases that are causing this problem huh? I guess we need to have a Chinese-style population control programme to prevent us from having to import food then huh?

 

drinking early Nuke? Easier solution, as the population increases, so too should our capability to feed them.

[Steff]

So its population increases that are causing this problem huh? I guess we need to have a Chinese-style population control programme to prevent us from having to import food then huh?

 

 

 

Wonder how the population "problem" would improve if those that didn't belong here weren't here...

 

Or we could stem illegal immigration, which is the only source of population increase in the US right now. the US popluation itself is actually at really close to zero growth right now.

 

 

 

Doh...

[Texsox]

Or we could stem illegal immigration, which is the only source of population increase in the US right now. the US popluation itself is actually at really close to zero growth right now.

 

Would you then slow the economic growth and the hot economy creating jobs? That to me is the central theme. We are creating these low end jobs, your solution seems to always be Americans, at some higher salary, will suddenly want to be yardmen, bus boys, and migrant workers. I don't see it. I don't see someone growing up in America, attending school, deciding on a manual labor job. I do see immigrants accepting that role to provide a better life for their children. As parents, we all know the sacrifices we would make for our children.

 

 

One way of controlling population increases in the USA is to keep the illegals out.

 

I agree 100%. I am all for only allowing those immigrants who can support themselves and their families to immigrate. That should be part of the guest worker program. No jobs, no immigration. Let US labor needs control immigration, not some arbitrary program that is decades old.

[YASNY]

Would you then slow the economic growth and the hot economy creating jobs? That to me is the central theme. We are creating these low end jobs, your solution seems to always be Americans, at some higher salary, will suddenly want to be yardmen, bus boys, and migrant workers. I don't see it. I don't see someone growing up in America, attending school, deciding on a manual labor job. I do see immigrants accepting that role to provide a better life for their children. As parents, we all know the sacrifices we would make for our children.

I agree 100%. I am all for only allowing those immigrants who can support themselves and their families to immigrate. That should be part of the guest worker program. No jobs, no immigration. Let US labor needs control immigration, not some arbitrary program that is decades old.

 

That's a different spin, since you seem to be against any legislation or action that would limit immigration ... even illegal immigration.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

I agree 100%. I am all for only allowing those immigrants who can support themselves and their families to immigrate. That should be part of the guest worker program. No jobs, no immigration. Let US labor needs control immigration, not some arbitrary program that is decades old.

 

 

That's a different spin, since you seem to be against any legislation or action that would limit immigration ... even illegal immigration.

 

[Texsox]

That's a different spin, since you seem to be against any legislation or action that would limit immigration ... even illegal immigration.

 

No, I've been saying over and over again, let US INTERESTS decide the program. If the US needs them, then let's allow them. Some people claim we don't need them, and I think that conclusion is wrong, With the low unemployement rates these past decades, these workers have fit into the economy. That clearly demonstrates to me there is a need. Don't shoot ourselves in the foot by deporting them.

 

I do not believe the US will raise a generation of manual laborors, at any price. As has been happening forever, immigrants will take those jobs and their children will not. Just like many of our ancestors did to give our grandparents and parents that opportunity.

 

I don't think we have to create a military zone to put some sanity into this situation. Some people want to stop immigration no matter what, that is insane.

[YASNY]

No, I've been saying over and over again, let US INTERESTS decide the program. If the US needs them, then let's allow them. Some people claim we don't need them, and I think that conclusion is wrong, With the low unemployement rates these past decades, these workers have fit into the economy. That clearly demonstrates to me there is a need. Don't shoot ourselves in the foot by deporting them.

 

I do not believe the US will raise a generation of manual laborors, at any price. As has been happening forever, immigrants will take those jobs and their children will not. Just like many of our ancestors did to give our grandparents and parents that opportunity.

 

I don't think we have to create a military zone to put some sanity into this situation. Some people want to stop immigration no matter what, that is insane.

 

Most people ... Most ... want to stop illegal immigration, not just immigration.

[southsider2k5]

Would you then slow the economic growth and the hot economy creating jobs? That to me is the central theme. We are creating these low end jobs, your solution seems to always be Americans, at some higher salary, will suddenly want to be yardmen, bus boys, and migrant workers. I don't see it. I don't see someone growing up in America, attending school, deciding on a manual labor job. I do see immigrants accepting that role to provide a better life for their children. As parents, we all know the sacrifices we would make for our children.

I agree 100%. I am all for only allowing those immigrants who can support themselves and their families to immigrate. That should be part of the guest worker program. No jobs, no immigration.

 

Ah, having our cake and eating it too I see. Where exactly should we keep putting people, without plowing under farm land? Higher highrises? Also how are we going to feed more people, with less farmland, meanwhile importing less food and growing more of our own. Sounds like a little self-contradictory to me.

 

Most people ... Most ... want to stop illegal immigration, not just immigration.

 

MOST don't want to stop immigration. They want to stop UNCONTROLED, ILLEGAL immigration. BIG BIG difference between the two. I haven't seen one person on here at all say that ALL immigration should be stopped. If there has been, I would love for you to find me a link.