Do WORRY about our Closer

[Kyyle23]

What is with everybody's knee-jerk response that I'm bashing Jenks because he had one bad outing? I'm not.

 

I'm SAYING that I'd like to have more options besides Jenks and his--face it--94 MPH fastball right now.

 

Southside, you're right: it was unfortunately a reminder of the 2004 Sox when we had the guaranteed loss when the fifth "starter" would come on (remember Arnie Munoz? BLAHHHH!).

 

But whatever. This all happened because Jose was hurt so it's sort of moot.

 

But it was what it was: Jenks didn't have it last night, and by the time he left, we weren't coming back.

 

Whatever, one game. Big deal.

But I stick by my concern that everybody will "figure out" Jenks if we only rely on him.

 

So you want closer-by-committee?

[WCSox]

What is with everybody's knee-jerk response that I'm bashing Jenks because he had one bad outing? I'm not.

 

I'm SAYING that I'd like to have more options besides Jenks and his--face it--94 MPH fastball right now.

 

Southside, you're right: it was unfortunately a reminder of the 2004 Sox when we had the guaranteed loss when the fifth "starter" would come on (remember Arnie Munoz? BLAHHHH!).

 

But whatever. This all happened because Jose was hurt so it's sort of moot.

 

But it was what it was: Jenks didn't have it last night, and by the time he left, we weren't coming back.

 

Whatever, one game. Big deal.

 

But I stick by my concern that everybody will "figure out" Jenks if we only rely on him.

 

I don't see any evidence that teams will "figure out" Jenks. It's just a matter of him commanding his offspeed pitches. When he does, he's lights-out. When he doesn't, he tends to give up some hits (and A LOT of hits when he's not locating at all). He's been used a lot recently, so maybe that has had something to do with his fastball being in the mid-90s last night. Who knows.

 

Bobby's not Mariano Rivera, but he's already succeeded on the biggest stage of all. How about we wait a few weeks before declaring that he can't close or that the league now has him "figured out."

[LVSoxFan]

I don't see any evidence that teams will "figure out" Jenks. It's just a matter of him commanding his offspeed pitches. When he does, he's lights-out. When he doesn't, he tends to give up some hits (and A LOT of hits when he's not locating at all). He's been used a lot recently, so maybe that has had something to do with his fastball being in the mid-90s last night. Who knows.

 

Bobby's not Mariano Rivera, but he's already succeeded on the biggest stage of all. How about we wait a few weeks before declaring that he can't close or that the league now has him "figured out."

 

Show me where I EVER said Jenks "can't close" and I SAID that I "worry" that teams will eventually figure him out if he's our only closer.

 

Options, people, options. Call it "closer by commitee" if you want but I'm simply saying we should not put all our eggs in one basket.

 

So Jenks blew one! Big deal! That's not why I'm thinking about this, and I am the BIGGEST Jenks fan, so let's knock it off already.

[YASNY]

Show me where I EVER said Jenks "can't close" and I SAID that I "worry" that teams will eventually figure him out if he's our only closer.

 

Options, people, options. Call it "closer by commitee" if you want but I'm simply saying we should not put all our eggs in one basket.

 

So Jenks blew one! Big deal! That's not why I'm thinking about this, and I am the BIGGEST Jenks fan, so let's knock it off already.

 

We should not put all our eggs in one basket. Fair enough. So what happens when Ozzie tries someone else to see if he can do the job? I'll answer that question. This board explodes with criticism. He used Thornton in the 9th once ... This a lefty with a 97 mph heater ... and everybody went apes***. They go ape s*** if Bobby doesn't get to start the inning. They complain that the bullpen doesn't have defined roles, then go apes*** when he tries to see what his pitchers are capable of, because it doesn't fit the perceived roles that Joe F. Blow thinks the roles should be.

[LVSoxFan]

I will NEVER fault Ozzie for doing anything unconventionally. Arguably, isn't that why he's turned out to be a great manager?

 

I for one you won't see complaining about when Ozzie does things that, as you note, the board goes nuts over.

 

I figure: hey, the man won us a World Series for f***'s sake. I'm not about to second-guess him. Or KW. I trust them.

 

I personally like Thorton's potential and the fact, as you mention, that he's a lefty with Jenks-like heat.

 

So the next time everyone goes apes*** when it's not Jenks, I've got your back.

 

[YASNY]

I will NEVER fault Ozzie for doing anything unconventionally. Arguably, isn't that why he's turned out to be a great manager?

 

I for one you won't see complaining about when Ozzie does things that, as you note, the board goes nuts over.

 

I figure: hey, the man won us a World Series for f***'s sake. I'm not about to second-guess him. Or KW. I trust them.

 

I personally like Thorton's potential and the fact, as you mention, that he's a lefty with Jenks-like heat.

 

So the next time everyone goes apes*** when it's not Jenks, I've got your back.

 

 

Just note that I said "Fair enough" before I jumped into my little rant. The rant part wasn't directed at you.

[RockRaines]

this board should be sponsored by xanax.

[S720]

We should not put all our eggs in one basket. Fair enough. So what happens when Ozzie tries someone else to see if he can do the job? I'll answer that question. This board explodes with criticism. He used Thornton in the 9th once ... This a lefty with a 97 mph heater ... and everybody went apes***. They go ape s*** if Bobby doesn't get to start the inning. They complain that the bullpen doesn't have defined roles, then go apes*** when he tries to see what his pitchers are capable of, because it doesn't fit the perceived roles that Joe F. Blow thinks the roles should be.

 

Don't even think starting Jenks in any inning but the 9th!

[SpringfieldFan]

I am not concerned on the basis of one loss. I am concerned on the basis of 10 out of 10 appearances where his velocity has been down 5 mph from last year. There is must be something going on that is causing this, and the fact nobody knows, or apparently even care, is troubling to me. For Bobby, that 5 mph is huge. 90 to 95 isn't that huge, because hitters can guess heat and dial it up. 95 to 100 is huge, because you are getting into heat that many hitters simply can't catch up to, even when they do correctly guess heat. Bagwell correctly guessed heat three times last year, and wound up walking back to the bench shellshocked. Do I wan't closer by committee? No. Do I want to acquire a new closer and demote Jenks? No. Do I want to give up the season? Again, no. But I dang sure want to know where that 5 mph went. Whoever is saying he didn't have his good heat this time last year - I am not being snotty, but please show me where you heard this, because he was still in the minors this time last year and I never recall hearing he had velocity issues to work through before he was called up. If I can see evidence that is a typical Jenks start, all my concerns go bye-bye.

 

SFF

[chitownsportsfan]

Jenks is the last of this teams bullpen worries. Before 2 out of his last 3 outings he was looking great.

 

I'd be much more worried about why BMAC was pulled, and then why Cotts was pulled--that stuff is on Ozzie. Oz seems to have no idea how to handle the bullpen right now.

 

Jenks needs to be brought in at the start of innings. He isn't overworked at all. If 14.1 IP so far is "overworked", I'd hate to normal use.

[WCSox]

Show me where I EVER said Jenks "can't close" and I SAID that I "worry" that teams will eventually figure him out if he's our only closer.

 

So, you "worry" that other teams will figure out Jenks, but don't have any evidence of it. Umm.... OK. Guess I misunderstood you. I'm not sure what your point is, though. Sounds like kind of an irrational fear to me.

[Kyyle23]

Jenks is the last of this teams bullpen worries. Before 2 out of his last 3 outings he was looking great.

 

I'd be much more worried about why BMAC was pulled, and then why Cotts was pulled--that stuff is on Ozzie. Oz seems to have no idea how to handle the bullpen right now.

 

Jenks needs to be brought in at the start of innings. He isn't overworked at all. If 14.1 IP so far is "overworked", I'd hate to normal use.

 

I think BMAC was pulled as a precautionary measure because they are just stretching him out right now. He threw 54 pitches IIRC, and they want him to be ready for Monday with no arm tire.

[S720]

Jenks is the last of this teams bullpen worries. Before 2 out of his last 3 outings he was looking great.

 

I'd be much more worried about why BMAC was pulled, and then why Cotts was pulled--that stuff is on Ozzie. Oz seems to have no idea how to handle the bullpen right now.

 

Jenks needs to be brought in at the start of innings. He isn't overworked at all. If 14.1 IP so far is "overworked", I'd hate to normal use.

 

This is another thing I hate from posters! Why don't you go and apply for the manager position then? You think you know how to handle the bullpen. If your bullpen blows, regardless of who you are, you will LOSE MANY games.

[Kyyle23]

This is another thing I hate from posters! Why don't you go and apply for the manager position then? You think you know how to handle the bullpen. If your bullpen blows, regardless of who you are, you will LOSE MANY games.

 

Whoa, settle down there. This isnt an angry debate

[YASNY]

Whoa, settle down there. This isnt an angry debate

 

Correct. It isn't. But it is a tiresome argument.

[LVSoxFan]

Didn't it all come down to, basically, we need to have good backup? That's all I'm sayin.

 

I'm not second-guessing anybody. I was psyched to see Jenks walk out last night after we pulled within one. I would have done the same thing.

 

Turns out he didn't have his stuff last night. Oh well. Next game, please...

[chitownsportsfan]

Why is it a tiresome argument not worthy of debate? (I combined the two posts for simplicity--I know who said what.)

 

I think lots of people don't like Jenks being put in to clean up other peoples messes. If he's going to be used in high leverage non-save situation--then freaking use him at the beginning of the inning. Furthermore, Ozzie needs to be reminded that Cotts was the team's best and most consistent reliever from point A to B last year. He can also (and should) be used more creatively.

 

I have no problems with how Ozzie is using Thortnon and Bmac. I mostly blame the Logan problem on KW, although I'm sure Ozzie gave him a vote of confidence during spring training.

 

One of the reasons I think Ozzie is doing a poor job with the bullpen is that last year he proved to be one of the best in the league at getting the most out it. He let guys settle into roles, and then used them appropriately. Right now, there doesn't seem to be much rythme or reason to his pitching changes.

[YASNY]

Why is it a tiresome argument not worthy of debate? (I combined the two posts for simplicity--I know who said what.)

 

I think lots of people don't like Jenks being put in to clean up other peoples messes. If he's going to be used in high leverage non-save situation--then freaking use him at the beginning of the inning. Furthermore, Ozzie needs to be reminded that Cotts was the team's best and most consistent reliever from point A to B last year. He can also (and should) be used more creatively.

 

I have no problems with how Ozzie is using Thortnon and Bmac. I mostly blame the Logan problem on KW, although I'm sure Ozzie gave him a vote of confidence during spring training.

 

One of the reasons I think Ozzie is doing a poor job with the bullpen is that last year he proved to be one of the best in the league at getting the most out it. He let guys settle into roles, and then used them appropriately. Right now, there doesn't seem to be much rythme or reason to his pitching changes.

 

It's tiresome because Ozzie proved over the course of last year that he knows exactly what he's doing and yet people around here are still focused on this game or that game and not the big picture. His "poor job with bullpen" is exactly what he's attempting to do this year. Before he let them settle into roles, he gave them opportunities, in order to determine what roles he let them settle into.

[S720]

Why is it a tiresome argument not worthy of debate? (I combined the two posts for simplicity--I know who said what.)

 

I think lots of people don't like Jenks being put in to clean up other peoples messes. If he's going to be used in high leverage non-save situation--then freaking use him at the beginning of the inning. Furthermore, Ozzie needs to be reminded that Cotts was the team's best and most consistent reliever from point A to B last year. He can also (and should) be used more creatively.

 

I have no problems with how Ozzie is using Thortnon and Bmac. I mostly blame the Logan problem on KW, although I'm sure Ozzie gave him a vote of confidence during spring training.

 

One of the reasons I think Ozzie is doing a poor job with the bullpen is that last year he proved to be one of the best in the league at getting the most out it. He let guys settle into roles, and then used them appropriately. Right now, there doesn't seem to be much rythme or reason to his pitching changes.

 

I put it this way. Between you and Ozzie, I take Ozzie's bullpen handling every single time. You don't even know what is in Ozzie's mind, so stop pretending you know.

[chitownsportsfan]

Between you and Ozzie, I take Ozzie's bullpen handling every single time. You don't even know what is in Ozzie's mind, so stop pretending you know.

 

Ok, so what issues are up for debate on this forum then?

 

It's tiresome because Ozzie proved over the course of last year that he knows exactly what he's doing

 

But to me, one year of success doesn't mean he has mastered the art. He was great last year, but I won't see he's been anywhere close this year--so far--he could show a deft hand yet.

[OilCan]

From the last several games, watching Jenks has been kind of scary. It seems like he doesn't have his high-heat velocity like last year. I've seen too many 93, 94, 95 MPH fastballs, and that is not good. Jenks' fastballs are straight with no movement. Hitters will kill him if his curveball or hook does not work.

 

Hopefully, Jenks will get back his 99, 100, 105 MPH fastballs! Only then, I will stop worry about our closer.

 

 

Since when did 93-95 mph become "slow'???

a) maybe our winning baseball coach is trying to coach jenks that you don't have to throw 99 to get people out.

 

B) okay, maybe something is terribly wrong. maybe he has lost his stuff. He's still getting people out.

 

c) ummmm.....see a and b.

 

[greg775]

If your bullpen blows, regardless of who you are, you will LOSE MANY games.

 

Great post. I agree. Our bullpen is not overly reliable. Basically we haven't ably replaced hermy.

[Chisoxfn]

The person who said Jenks pitched himself into shape last year is correct. Jenks did have early struggles adjusting to the pen and getting in shape, although I think that was in large part because he missed pretty much all of the prior season due to a season ending injury.

 

He may have been completely heatlhy to start last year, but he was not in pitching shape. This year he was healthy and overweight so that is one of the reason his velocity is down, but until very recently he had been pitching well in save opportunties (and just in general) but Ozzie has overused him and because Jenks isn't used to pitching 3-4 games in a row he tires.

 

Late last season his velocity dropped and he got hit a bit, but than Ozzie gave him a few dyas off and he was back blowing fastballs by guys. I think he could really use a couple days to catch a breath and I hope Ozzie gives it to him. I am glad to see he's dropped some weight because if he stayed as fat as he was to start the year he would have definately blown his arm by season's end (the fat, muscle, buldge...whatever you want to call it was preventing him from having a more natural delivery).

[Guest JimH]

Before he let them settle into roles, he gave them opportunities, in order to determine what roles he let them settle into.

 

Key point here Yas, this is exactly what he's doing. He wants to see who can step up and be counted on, plus if it's done the right way it builds their confidence. Thornton for example still has lots to work on but he's more confident than he's ever been.

[S720]

Ok, so what issues are up for debate on this forum then?

But to me, one year of success doesn't mean he has mastered the art. He was great last year, but I won't see he's been anywhere close this year--so far--he could show a deft hand yet.

 

If you think you've already mastered the art, by no means, please go and apply for the manager job. Let's see how FAR you get.

 

You want to get down to nuts and bolts. Tell me EXACTLY what has Ozzie done differently this year from last year? And DON'T make up stuffs! Ozzie's philosophy has always been match-up. If that philosophy has helped him and the White Sox to win a World Series title after 88 years, why bother to b**** about it?

 

"One year of success doesn't mean he has mastered the art." I can't believe you said that! That one year of success has eliminated 88 years of frustrations and broken hearts, and you have the f***ing nerve to say that!