clujer420 Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 The only things that you should be measured by is character & ability. Of course. Us rational people of Soxtalk know that, and so do most human beings. But, there will ALWAYS be biggots who will discriminate and play the race card. Sad but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 I have no recollection of anyoe urging Toberg to leave except Mrs Torberg, his mother - and may Torberg himself to play in a bigger market. For Lamont, I never understood that one, except I know how many fans really disliked/hated him. ALOT of Sox fans dislike JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 I have no recollection of anyoe urging Toberg to leave except Mrs Torberg, his mother - and may Torberg himself to play in a bigger market. For Lamont, I never understood that one, except I know how many fans really disliked/hated him. ALOT of Sox fans dislike JM and there is a point - right or wrong, fair or unfair - when the dislike level reaches a certain point when a change needs to be made. That is not just true of baseball amnaging, true in other professions. Sometimes the change just needs to be made because the audience/client base/whatever wants a chnage - fair or unfair, right or wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 How long did it take him to get rid of Krause? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't Krause resign? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't Krause resign? Krause "resigned" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Well "race card" or not, the Sox are floundering badly and something needs to be done. Nothing is being done. Sox fans, despite our long history of suffering really love the game and want our team to win or at least put up a good fight. This team is failing on all counts. Worse than that, nobody is being accoutable. Not JR, KW, JM the great marketing genius Galas, not anybody. We deserve better. Are you pissed? I know I'm livid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Firing JM will not be interpreted as racial. A, he deserves it; B, he still gets paid; and C, it will be a black guy who gives him the pink slip. Plus, the media would never stoop to that. There is one record in baseball that is absolutely safe from ever being broken by JM or anyone else. Connie Mack's tenure as manager (50 years, I believe). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Firing JM will not be interpreted as racial. A, he deserves it; B, he still gets paid; and C, it will be a black guy who gives him the pink slip. Plus, the media would never stoop to that. There is one record in baseball that is absolutely safe from ever being broken by JM or anyone else. Connie Mack's tenure as manager (50 years, I believe). Whether the "media" would or not, if JM or KW is fired and replaced by a white man, there will be grumbles that it was racially motivated. I can give an example of the type that happens. When Ron Schuler was replaced by Kenny Williams, over the heir-apparent, Dan Evans, there was never a word uttered. When Jerry Krause was replaced by John Paxson over heir-apparent BJ Armstrong, the grumblins did occur that BJ did not get the job because he was black. Yet this was the same owner in both situations. And this owner had already proven he was more than willing to hire minorities to positions of authority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 I can give an example of the type that happens. When Ron Schuler was replaced by Kenny Williams, over the heir-apparent, Dan Evans, there was never a word uttered. When Jerry Krause was replaced by John Paxson over heir-apparent BJ Armstrong, the grumblins did occur that BJ did not get the job because he was black. Yet this was the same owner in both situations. And this owner had already proven he was more than willing to hire minorities to positions of authority. What? What are you listening to? I am asking sincerely. When KW was hied over Dan Evans, no one said hey cool, KW was Ron Schueler's recommendation, but a lot lot of people said it was only about race - the exact opposite of no one said a thing - and I haven't a word about BJ being passed over - maybe I hang in the worng circles - Paxon clearly had the edge in age and experience, and BJ wiull be there in a few years - did anyone say a word when Baylor was fired for Kimm? Or when Baylor was fired before that? did anyone say a word when Jordan fired a brother for Collins? did anyone say a word when Joe Dumars fired a brother for not one but now 2 white coaches? Every baseball manager gets fired, and every GM gets fired, unless you are the one exception Tommy Lasorda or, as was pointed out in this thread, Connie Mack and you own the f***ing team MLB will have arrived when it was like the NBA and no one notices the color of who gets fired or hired because it has been about equal opportunity for years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 What? What are you listening to? I am asking sincerely. When KW was hied over Dan Evans, no one said hey cool, KW was Ron Schueler's recommendation, but a lot lot of people said it was only about race - the exact opposite of no one said a thing - and I haven't a word about BJ being passed over - maybe I hang in the worng circles - Paxon clearly had the edge in age and experience, and BJ wiull be there in a few years - did anyone say a word when Baylor was fired for Kimm? Or when Baylor was fired before that? did anyone say a word when Jordan fired a brother for Collins? did anyone say a word when Joe Dumars fired a brother for not one but now 2 white coaches? Every baseball manager gets fired, and every GM gets fired, unless you are the one exception Tommy Lasorda or, as was pointed out in this thread, Connie Mack and you own the f***ing team MLB will have arrived when it was like the NBA and no one notices the color of who gets fired or hired because it has been about equal opportunity for years I knew you were going to buck me on this one. Your point on the KW hiring. Yes, now that you mention it, I do recall that happening. As for Pax over BJ. BJ was the asst GM, and Pax was a broadcaster. You'd have to assume that BJ would have been the heir-apparent under those circumstances. I hope, like you say, that eventually MLB gets to that point too. I'm not a racist, cwsox. I am, however, tired of the race card being played at the drop of a hat. I'll be glad when things progress to a point that the race card becomes a non-issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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