Garland

[beck72]

I hope Jon gets back on track--the sooner the better. It's a long season and the sox are going to need him. Right now, though, he's definitely the sox 5th SP. And he probably will be for the season. He might not get his ERA under 4 this yr. It'll be interesting to see how much Jon improves and how he finishes the yr. With a no trade only through 06, and BMac around, if Jon doesn't get his act together, he could be dealt in the offseason. You don't want to bring that up. But that's life in professional baseball. And that's for next yr.

 

Another possibility if Jon's struggles last for a while, is having Bmac in the rotation this yr. It's all based on performance. Ozzie won't just keep throwing Jon out there if he's giving up 7 runs a game into July.

 

Jon has the stuff to be the SP the sox need. He just needs to ride out the storm. Hopefully he gets back on track. Yet alternatives exist. No one can rest on their 2005 yr, and can stink up 2006 w/o consequence. The sox will give him every opportunity to get his act together. But their is a time when reality sets in and the sox would have decisions to make

[WCSox]

Many teams will take that contract just for a guy who can take the ball every 5 days.

 

Those teams will also trade away Contreras and money for Estaban Loaiza and fail to get to the WS.

 

 

Or maybe we can still support Jon through his rough patch and hope he gets on track soon? My bad. This is Soxtalk we're talking about.

 

Nah, I've already supported Garland though the 2002-2004 "rough patch." It's time for him to perform.

[Princess Dye]

He's a #4 or #5 guy who had everything fall into place for himself last season. If his control is off, like Buerhle he will get hit, especially if his sinker isn't working, which it hasn't much this year. His control is off more than Buerhle's. As long as he's not injured, he will still have some good games, he always has, but they won't be as frequent as last season.

 

yes, on target. things fell into place with him last year. even with all those wins last year he hasnt had bigtime consistency ever. every now and then last year he'd get a win while getting shelled or semi-shelled. if that's a word which it's not.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Those teams will also trade away Contreras and money for Estaban Loaiza and fail to get to the WS.

Nah, I've already supported Garland though the 2002-2004 "rough patch." It's time for him to perform.

 

He "performed" last year. Not only in the regular season, but the playoffs as well. But go ahead and toss him aside if you want. Just don't jump back on his bandwagon when he gets goin' again.

[Kalapse]

So let me get this straight, these numbers are not alarming because he pitched 7 innings in Houston and only allowed 2 ERs? So one start negates 18 other starts over the past 3 or so months?

 

August:

G 	GS 	W 	L 	SV 	CG 	SHO 	IP 	H 	R 	ER 	HR 	BB 	K	ERA 	WHIP 	BAA

6 	6 	1 	4 	0 	0 	0 	37.2 	47 	24 	20 	6 	10 	21
 

September:

5 	5 	1 	2 	0 	1 	1 	37.0 	33 	16 	16 	7 	10 	24 
 

April/May:

7 	7 	2 	2 	0 	0 	0 	44.0 	60 	33 	33 	8 	10 	19
 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total:

18	18	4	8	0	1	1	118.2	140	73	69	21	30	64	5.23	1.43

 

 

/suckass

Edited May 14, 2006 by Kalapse

[Jordan4life_2007]

So let me get this straight, these numbers are not alarming because he pitched 6.2 innings in Houston and only allowed 2 ERs? So one start negates 18 other starts over the past 3 or so months?

 

August:

G 	GS 	W 	L 	SV 	CG 	SHO 	IP 	H 	R 	ER 	HR 	BB 	K	ERA 	WHIP 	BAA

6 	6 	1 	4 	0 	0 	0 	37.2 	47 	24 	20 	6 	10 	21
 

September:

5 	5 	1 	2 	0 	1 	1 	37.0 	33 	16 	16 	7 	10 	24 
 

April/May:

7 	7 	2 	2 	0 	0 	0 	44.0 	60 	33 	33 	8 	10 	19
 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total:

18	18	4	8	0	1	1	118.2	140	73	69	21	30	64	5.23	1.43

/suckass

 

 

Looks like somebody forgot about the game 3 gem against the Angels in the alcs. And Jon had a 3.65 era after the all-star break last year -- lower than Buehrle's and Garcia's. Jon's in a funk right now. There's no denying that. But I feel safe when I say his era is not gonna be close to 7 all season.

Edited May 14, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006

[BigSqwert]

Nice to see our own fans turn on our players so quickly, especially after what Jon did last season.

He played a good half of a season and had 1 good post season game.

[Kalapse]

Looks like somebody forgot about the game 3 gem against the Angels in the alcs. And Jon had a 3.65 era after the all-star break last year -- lower than Buehrle's and Garcia's. Jon's in a funk right now. There's no denying that. But I feel safe when I say his era is not gonna be close to 7 all season.

Ok, he had 2 good postseason starts, I'm not really sure how that negates 3 months of bad pitching and using Buehrle and Garcia's struggles from the 2nd half of last year as a part of an argument doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense.

 

Look at Garland's splits, he had a pretty good July but was pretty damn bad in August and September, Buehrle had a pathetic July but was much better in August and September. Also Garcia wasn't very good over the same months as Garland last year and has looked sub-par this year but has still managed to limit his runs allowed over his bad outings unlike Garland.

[Felix]

Ok, he had 2 good postseason starts, I'm not really sure how that negates 3 months of bad pitching and using Buehrle and Garcia's struggles from the 2nd half of last year as a part of an argument doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense.

 

Look at Garland's splits, he had a pretty good July but was pretty damn bad in August and September, Buehrle had a pathetic July but was much better in August and September. Also Garcia wasn't very good over the same months as Garland last year and has looked sub-par this year but has still managed to limit his runs allowed over his bad outings unlike Garland.

I don't get whats so hard to understand. Obviously, throwing Garland under the bus supports the terrorists.

[BobDylan]

Or maybe we can still support Jon through his rough patch and hope he gets on track soon? My bad. This is Soxtalk we're talking about.

 

I've always been a Garland backer. But the fact is, one year doesn't prove anything. Baseball is a funny game...there have been plenty of one year wonders. Now that I've seen Garland pitch a good season, I want to see him pitch another. Fact is, he isn't pitching well. Therefore I'm concerned.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Ok, he had 2 good postseason starts, I'm not really sure how that negates 3 months of bad pitching and using Buehrle and Garcia's struggles from the 2nd half of last year as a part of an argument doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense.

 

So you're gonna throw Jon under the bus for having a "bad" second half when his era was lower than that of Buehrle and Garcia? Makes perfect sense.

 

 

Look at Garland's splits, he had a pretty good July but was pretty damn bad in August and September, Buehrle had a pathetic July but was much better in August and September. Also Garcia wasn't very good over the same months as Garland last year and has looked sub-par this year but has still managed to limit his runs allowed over his bad outings unlike Garland.

 

I've seen his splits. He had a bad August and a so-so September. Jon had a 3.89 era in September. Buehrle had a 3.38 era in September. Freddy had a 3.98 era in September. Again, I don't really see where you're coming from as far as '05 goes.

[WHarris1]

So you're gonna throw Jon under the bus for having a "bad" second half when his era was lower than that of Buehrle and Garcia? Makes perfect sense.

Is he as proven as those guys?

[Gene Honda Civic]

 

/end discussion

[Jordan4life_2007]

Is he as proven as those guys?

 

No, not at all. That's not what my argument is. Kalpse is stating Garland had a "bad" second half or a "bad" last two months in '05. The numbers say he was just as good if not slightly better than both Freddy and Mark during that time period.

Edited May 14, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006

[DBAHO]

He played a good half of a season and had 1 good post season game.

Good half of a season? I guess a 3.65 ERA in the 2nd half of 2005 really ain't doin enough there for ya ain't it.

 

In response to Kalapse's post about the bad August and September, I think that's mainly due to him walking more guys in those months than any other in 2005. He's a real fine line pitcher in terms of his control. We just have to hope Coop can get him back to throwing those strikes early in the count.

[Chisoxfn]

This boggles my mind over almost anything I have previously seen.

 

Whenever someone posts how we should, can, or will trade for Rowand I want to throw myself out a first story window.

 

As for Garland, all i have to say is that he is making my beginning of the season prediction look pretty good. In fact, I might have been overly optomistic. This does not make me happy

I definately think there is some reason to be concerned with Garland. On the plus side I really think its upstairs right now, but on the downside sometimes things upstairs can really go south fast and you never get them back.

 

I like Coop a lot and Ozzie has faith in Jon (plus Jon doesn't have a ton of pressure on his shoulders right now) so I think if Jon can just go out there and getting some things to go his way we'll see him get into a groove, but it may take a couple steps.

 

Right now he's in a baby step stage. He needs to forget about his prior starts and what was going wrong and start focusing on the new starts and how he needs to just execute. I honestly think for a while he was out there trying to bring his ERA down to 0 from teh get go and because of it he was leaving a lot of pitches up. Now after he's made those mistakes he tries to make even better pitches and that means he's over throwing a lot of the time and again having less command.

 

HE goes out there and goes 6 or 7 giving up 4 runs or less where he makes some good pitches and I think we'll see him start to build from that. He's a good to very good pitcher thats in a funk right now. He isn't over-powering but when he has the command he had last year, mixed with his stuff, he's a very good pitcher who will give you a lot of innings and keep you in games (and from time to time WIN you games).

 

Contract year dude. Now that he got his money he's back to his old form. We all talked about the possibility of this happening.

Technically last year wasn't a contract year. We just took care of him with an extension. We held his rights for this year regardless.

[DBAHO]

And pound batters inside....

Yeah good point there Tony. I haven't seen JG pitch on TV much since I don't obviously get to watch much of the Sox at all, but it seemed last season especially early when we were pitching so well, we were challenging hitters inside a lot.

[Chisoxfn]

Maybe just for a couple weeks while he gets his head together, rests up his arm, and works on whatever he's missing?

 

A ton of people here get furious with Ozzie when he loses games with the "Sunday lineup", giving the regulars too much rest, we can't sacrifice a single game, etc. Well if Garland is turning into a terrible loss every other time out, maybe we ought to give the kid a shot.

Right now the best thing for the Sox is to get Jon Garland rocking. We do that and we can win each and every start. The only way we get him through this is by pitching him completely out of the world (ie he gets shelled all over the place) or by letting him get through this.

 

I think part B is going to happen. Ozzie shows a lot of faith in his players and because of that for the most part they come through.

 

You don't give out 29 million dollar contracts to mediocre starters either, but that was already done.

He is not a mediocre starter. We can argue whether last year was a fluke, but he was one of the best pitchers in baseball last year. You don't do that without having talent.

[Felix]

He is not a mediocre starter. We can argue whether last year was a fluke, but he was one of the best pitchers in baseball last year. You don't do that without having talent.

Until he proves that he can do what he did last year on a consistant basis, he's an average starter, just like he was before 2005. You can have the talent, but that doesn't mean anything if it doesn't produce results.